So... Warriors. Do they suck?

Pages

Or is it just me?

I have taken 2 warriors (1 horde, 1 alliance) and had a very rough time with them both. I find starting from nothing (no rage) very frustrating as you have to be in battle for a good long time to build up any rage and it depletes again in a damn hurry.

My character's name should be "Not Enough Rage" because that's all he says. Even when you do have some rage the warrior seems to do very poor damage compared to other classes.

On Shadowsong, Gretz and I are grouped with Marlin whose leather clad Rogue easily doubles the damage we do and seems to take less damage even though I can't hold aggro for crap and the monsters all seek him out. If Marlin's not there (until just last night) we had no one who could pull monsters leaving us to battle full groups at once (death sentence) or avoid entirely because we were too wimpy.

I can routinely solo monsters 2 levels above me with my Tauren Shaman. With the warrior I'm generally having to solo monsters 2 levels BELOW me to stand a chance.

So do warriors suck or just me?

I don''t think it''s just you. I love my warrior, but it''s been a struggle to get her to 15. Flaws that aren''t terribly apparent at very low level are starting to become glaringly apparent now.

The rage thing is just insane. It''s very poorly implemented, IMHO. I hate the fact that in a group, I am almost never going to be able to hold agro, or regain agro when other damage dealers get the monster''s attention.

I''m beginning to think that warriors should have just been left out of the game. There isn''t anything that they can do that Paladins can''t do better. And pally''s get heal and rez. I kinda wish I''d started one of those instead.

That said...I just adore my happy bouncy dwarf, so I hold on to her, on the off-chance Blizzard decides to show them some love in future patches. You know, when they''re not busy nerfing things like fish and quests.

A caveat to my post.

Marlin dropped out early last night (to caress his new widescreen LCD''s I think) and Gretz and I (both Warriors) were stuck alone and I think we may have remedied some of the problems with the class I was having.

First, we went to Ogrimmar and got trained with ranged weapons so we can pull. Gretz took throwing knives which seems to work much faster and more efficiently space wise than archery, which I took. Neither gives you any Rage however, so it''s still preferable to have someone else pull but at least we can now.

Second, we found some good armour in that session that appears to have made a difference compared to what felt like Kleenex before (even though it was mail).

3rd, we hit level 15 and had a good look at the skills there. Shield Bash is Awesome against spellcasters and sunder armour really appears to make a difference too. Demoralizing Shout needs to be experimented with more.

4th and most important. Gretz always seemed to get through a bit better than I in our struggles and I think I found one reason why: he had put in talent points whereas I hadn''t touched mine since lvl 10. (DUH!!!) Upon doing so I noticed a substantial difference in my ability to get and hold rage (my primary warrior beef).

So, as of last night, and only after getting to lvl 15, I am warily convinced that the Warrior class may not suck total ass, and sadly affirm that some of the suckitude is from me.

I usually play a Tauren Hunter and have had great trouble logging her off to try something else. Finally tried a Troll Warrior. It is different, but once you hit level 10, it gets a bit easier. At level 9 or 10, I forget which. You can get an ability which causes no rage to use and gives 20 rage when all is done. I have also found that if you keep fighting without much rest, the rage will stay high. I am a pathetic gamer can''t remember the names of the skills Faiji uses fighting. But it goes soemthing like this....

Engage using the charging ability followed by battle shout asap. Use the ability that weakens and slows them and then bloodrend.
If Rage allows and the battle is long, I will toss in hamstring and any other abilities that seem like a good idea. If the baddie tries to dash, depending on what else is there, I will chash or use a thrown weapon.
I hope the other warriors chime in and give you better insight. Faij is only levle 10 and I am not well versed in warrior.

Check out Page 5 of the WoW Tips thread for more warrior advice.

The warrior class can be a difficult slog. At level 33 I still have a hellish time building rage and holding aggro. And generally get the crap beaten out of me if I''m mobbed by more than one hostile, even if they''re a couple levels below me.

There''s some great advice in that linked thread, though. I''ve been trying different skills and have been doing much better in the last day or so. Even though the rage thing drives me nuts, I do like the fact that it forces you to think strategically. With limited rage, you pretty much have to use your skills wisely and be willing to apply them differently in various situations. It''s not all a mindless hack and slash click-fest.

I''m enjoying my Warrior more and more as I play the game. The Warrior is truly an item dependent class. You need him outfitted with the best armor and weapons.

I''ve got a pretty good sword and shield combo and I''ve trained up in Two-handed Swords and Two-Handed Axes so I can cherry pick the best items. I''ve also trained in guns so I can pull. (Though I tend to Charge more than pull now.)

One major thing that hasn''t been discussed in the other threads here with regards to the warrior class: in my opinion it is the single most gear dependent class in the game. If you let stuff lag, you will feel the pain. [Edit: hah Reap beat me to this point]

I had alot of problems holding aggro until about 16 or so which is when I read on the official forums that Sunder Armor is the best taunt in warrior''s arsenal, and that has definitely proved to be true. I also am specc''ed to be a weak damaging, aggro holding, old school tank. So I go defensive stance, hit Demoralizing Shout, then spam Sunder Armor and Revenge as much as possible. I also try to save enough rage to keep Battle Shout up. I use Bloodrage when I have to. When tanking a big baddie, I use Shield Block (I have a point in Improved Shield Block, really worth it) and mitigate quite a bit of damage.

I could be wrong but I think if you''re speccing for damage and using Battle Stance, you''re just flat out going to have more problems holding aggro than a defensive spec. That''s fine, not everybody wants to whittle away and be pounded on while the rest of the group actually kills everything. On the flip side, you''ll be in much better shape soloing if you go for damage, most of my talent points are in skills I never use when soloing.

I''ll turn this into my thread on how I play my warrior when I get home tonight. But this post on the WoW boards explains the current major issues with warriors as it stands.

Warriors are not meant to be the damage dealers in this game for whatever purpose, they are instead meat shields and even that requires speccing defense and using defense stance (EDIT - well not necessarilly, i''m a bit quick tounged when at work thinking about this and typing it at work before leaving for home).

I''m a crit based warrior putting all my points (so far) into arms but I''ve respecced twice already.

That''s all I''ll say for now before I do my mega post tonight.

I never got to page 5 of the WoW tips thread (before just now) and I have to say there are some good tips in there, Thanks Slambie!

I have been using battle Stance exclusively but will experiment with switching to Defensive. My 6 talent points thus far are all offensive geared towards building me a better rage pool.

Better armour as mentioned as definitely seemed to help.

Another thread where Strekos and I offer up advice on Aggressive vs Defense builds.

I refused to group with a warrior who is duel weilding...

They need to be in defensive stance with a shield...

Warriors are not designed to be DPS.. Thats other classes jobs.

Warriors being to shine past 45 and really past 50 and even more so 55+

Where the Mobs will hit for high enough to drop a Rogue or Hunter in about 4 seconds. (try healing that)

A good played warrior in a balanced group (one who understands how to taunt) is key to most high end instances where you''ll 90% of the time be fighting 3+ Elites at a time.

Basing a warriors weakness or strengths (actually for just about any class) for the first 30 levels or so is difficult.

As a level 30 Warrior.. I can definitely say the Rage situation gets better as you level up. You also want to make sure you put points into the talents that garner more rage during charges and the one for a chance to earn extra rage per melee hit. Right now.. when I charge and land my first hit, my rage is pretty close to 50% and I can unleash all kinds skills. I use both 1 handed sword/shield and 2-handed swords depending on the situation (aggresive or defensive) and I can definitely say I earn a crap load more rage using the 2-handed sword. The rage you earn must be dependent on the amount of damage you do because it builds up faster than I can use when I go 2-handed.

Also helps to have a handy Alchemist (me) giving out G. Rage Potions..

If only they weren''t on the same timer as health potions... maybe Blizz will change that.

I think the issue is that blizzard was afraid of making them too powerful in a melee. The problem is that Warriors should, to be cliche, own in melee. It also seems to me that when they were designing classes they were really excited about a couple of the classes, but not necessarily about warriors, they seem added as an afterthought almost...

As main tank...no good group should ever have to let a Warrior drink a healing potion.

If your main tank goes down in a fight its time to say group wipe and start geting set up again.

Actually warriors shouldn''t own in melee. That''s a Rogues job.

"TheGameguru" wrote:

As main tank...no good group should ever have to let a Warrior drink a healing potion.

If your main tank goes down in a fight its time to say group wipe and start geting set up again.

In an ""oh sh1t"" moment a health potion can save the day. Rage potion usually can''t. And even good groups have ""oh sh1t"" moments or maybe the priest''s cat did something cute and distracted him... whatever... a heal potion can prevent a wipeout.

"Lester_King" wrote:

I think the issue is that blizzard was afraid of making them too powerful in a melee. The problem is that Warriors should, to be cliche, own in melee. It also seems to me that when they were designing classes they were really excited about a couple of the classes, but not necessarily about warriors, they seem added as an afterthought almost...

Wouldnt be fair to Rogues then...Warrior get plate, dual weild more HPS and do more damage?

Why would then say anyone even want to group with a Rogue?

"TheGameguru" wrote:

Wouldnt be fair to Rogues then...Warrior get plate, dual weild more HPS and do more damage?

If only warriors did get more HPs. They don''t.

Well curb/flux and I are a 2 pronged force to be reckoned with.

Even if he hits first I end up with aggro and once that happens the mob is getting it from the front and back, add in curbs backstab and it''s death city.

"Strekos" wrote:
"TheGameguru" wrote:

As main tank...no good group should ever have to let a Warrior drink a healing potion.

If your main tank goes down in a fight its time to say group wipe and start geting set up again.

In an ""oh sh1t"" moment a health potion can save the day. Rage potion usually can''t. And even good groups have ""oh sh1t"" moments or maybe the priest''s cat did something cute and distracted him... whatever... a heal potion can prevent a wipeout.

If I was a warrior I''d bail on that group...I dont even give out Major Heal to warriors...just the Rogues and DPS classes..

Priests main focus is the main Tank.. I usually will heal the secondary guys..

If I see a priest waste a heal on say a Mage that pulled to much aggro so then our main tank goes down I usually slap them around.

Other than the Paladin (whoes on the Alliance side so I dont know much about them) theres nobody on the Horde that can sustain a beating long enough other than a Warrior.

But I agree...Blizzard should move them to a seperate cooldown.

"Strekos" wrote:
"TheGameguru" wrote:

Wouldnt be fair to Rogues then...Warrior get plate, dual weild more HPS and do more damage?

If only warriors did get more HPs. They don''t.

dunno about that...most Warriors I know have more hps than Rogues and all other classes.

This is a really interesting thread- thanks for the link to the Blizzard post, Eezy; that was very well written and argued.

FYI I think our collective posts on WoW are better than the ones on Blizzard..

"TheGameguru" wrote:
"Strekos" wrote:
"TheGameguru" wrote:

Wouldnt be fair to Rogues then...Warrior get plate, dual weild more HPS and do more damage?

If only warriors did get more HPs. They don''t.

dunno about that...most Warriors I know have more hps than Rogues and all other classes.

It''s only because they focus on gear that gives stamina bonuses. Any class can do that though. There''s nothing inherent in being a Warrior that gives you more HP. Blizzard says ""as designed""....

After reading all the comments here, I''m definitely going to play around with the defensive stance options and skills some more. That may be the biggest part of my problem since I''ve been focusing on dealing damage.

One thing I forgot to mention is that I also try to keep Battle Shout on as much as possible. I have it maxed out in talent points and it''s a huge benefit to a group at my current level, which is an additional 89 to group attack power.

"TheGameguru" wrote:

...Basing a warriors weakness or strengths (actually for just about any class) for the first 30 levels or so is difficult.

Good post GG and I completely understand what you''re saying , but for those pre-30 levels I find the warrior a very tough grind from a ""having fun"" standpoint.

When you can''t generate rage it''s sometimes hard to pretend you''re doing more than just watching your guy feebly auto-attack. It doesn''t feel like you''re even playing the game as you literally have NO options. Go ahead press a button, they all play the ""Not Enough Rage"" sound. I''m more like a DJ with my mad spazz rapping the ""Not Enough Rage"" soundbite.

If you can''t get a charge off, your battle plan consists of run up to creature, try and fail to hold aggro while trying to hit creature to gain rage (and missing a good 10-15% more than ANY other class). Shouldn''t a warrior miss less than a mage with a melee weapon? Isn''t that, oh I don''t know... the whole frigging point of a melee character?!?!?!

Where I proclaim a problem is how much more effective I was with other characters at equal (hell, lesser) level than I''ve been with my Warriors.

However, my original caveat still stands and my gameplay last night has substantially improved my outlook on the class, enough so that I''m going to stick with my Horde Warrior at least, a little while longer

I really, really want a skill or talent that lets you designate somebody that you are guarding. When the person you are guarding gets hit, you build rage. It works from a game mechanics standpoint, a lore standpoint, a roleplaying standpoint, a logic standpoint, it''s not unbalancing... I am teh SMERT. Blizzard listen to me!!

I''m a level 19 Warrior and it''s my only char I''ve tried so far. I agree it''s tough but I also think there is a lot of strategy involved in the class and if you don''t play smart you will be frustrated. It probably won''t help if you''ve started the game as a different type of class first.

More on my guy later tonight when I have time.

I can maybe see the point of not having warriors be the best dps in the game, but the fact that they can''t hold aggro well is absolutely ridiculous. Would people accept a priest class that didn''t have decent heals until some ungodly high level, or a mage class with no high-damage offensive spells? As DuckiDeva said, there''s nothing that a warrior can do that a paladin can''t do as well or better, with several more abilities to boot.

Taking/holding aggro is what a warrior is all about, and if they can''t do that, there''s no point to the class. Period.

"KillerTomato" wrote:

I can maybe see the point of not having warriors be the best dps in the game, but the fact that they can''t hold aggro well is absolutely ridiculous. Would people accept a priest class that didn''t have decent heals until some ungodly high level, or a mage class with no high-damage offensive spells? As DuckiDeva said, there''s nothing that a warrior can do that a paladin can''t do as well or better, with several more abilities to boot.

Taking/holding aggro is what a warrior is all about, and if they can''t do that, there''s no point to the class. Period.

A good well played warrior will not have problems holding aggro in a smart group..In fact they''ll be the best at doing it.

If your playing with idiots then I have no idea...but dont blame Blizzard.

It''s only because they focus on gear that gives stamina bonuses. Any class can do that though. There''s nothing inherent in being a Warrior that gives you more HP. Blizzard says ""as designed""....

While thats true..I''m pretty sure like Rogues and Hunters get more inherent bonuses from AGI....Warriors get more HP bonus from Stam than other classes.

Additionally I''m pretty sure the fixed HP bonuses all classes get that are exempt from Stam are higher for Warriors than other classes.

I''ll get a 60 warrior and a 60 Rogue to strip necked! and we''ll check it out.

Pages