WoW Priests

You can be pissed, but I can practically garuntee I would ignore your anger

Very funny dialogue between you and your wife JimmDogg.
The thing that keeps my priest ""flashy"" is engineering. Whip out with a shrink ray, parachute cloak, or mechanical dragonling (don''t tell anyone it''s an hour cooloff on that one). If all else fails, lob some grenades or birth an explosive sheep. All fairly silly, but flashy nonetheless.

Out of curiosity, why did you pick a priest? Did you play one in beta?

Ironically, because I hate begging for groups.

I don''t think it''s realistic for me to ""change servers"" at this point. I am not slogging through 32 levels again. I wonder if I am to low level for my server. It seems like there are a lot more higher level characters and then a bunch of lower level alts. I have never received ONE unsolicted group request.

"Dr.Ghastly" wrote:

You can be pissed, but I can practically garuntee I would ignore your anger ;)

The roll on everything attitude is fine but be warned you may gain an unwanted reputation that may come back and bite your ass in instances where the really good drops show up.

You may find people less sympathetic to passing on rolls for a really cool very class specific item that you could use.

to the previous complaint I agree that Need before Greed perhaps can be tweaked some.

But in the end if you dislike how the group is handling looting or in general their behavior.. you should immediatly leave the group.

Even better right when they may have needed you most

"TheGameguru" wrote:
"Dr.Ghastly" wrote:

You can be pissed, but I can practically garuntee I would ignore your anger ;)

The roll on everything attitude is fine but be warned you may gain an unwanted reputation that may come back and bite your ass in instances where the really good drops show up.

You may find people less sympathetic to passing on rolls for a really cool very class specific item that you could use.

This is true but, call me a callous asshole if you want, it doesn''t really matter to me.

Currently there is only one other person I am always grouping with, and that''s my G/F. I''m always on the lookout for stuff for her first, then myself, then maybe other people if I''m not low on cash. My personal opinion of this kind of thing is that, unless these are once in a lifetime items (meaning only one person can have it, ever) then the person who may be angry at me for rolling on everything can kiss my ass because they can just grind until they get one. They can also ask nicely, and perhaps offer a trade worth my while, and we can come to a reasonable understanding. Of course if they are once in a lifetime items you can probably bet the farm I''m going to keep it, make a character that can use it, and save it for a rainy day.

I realize that this may not seem ""fair"" or ""nice"" to other people, but I completely accept the consequences if I lose and item I may have wanted to someone else''s roll. I''ll try to bargain with them, but if not, hey, they rolled it, it''s theirs fair and square.

[quote=""Warlock""]

. . . or so you can disenchant it and get 2 essences from it.

A sidebar, but this theory needs to be quashed a bit. As an enchanter, I''ve heard it several times.

Higher level enchantments (the ones that people want) require the destruction of higher level (e.g. blue) items. If people want to sell blue items for cash that''s fine, but just bare in mind that there is a legitimate reason for enchanters to want to derez high level items in particular. No one complains about other people wanting to keep reagent drops for use in a craft that also happen to be worth a lot of cash if sold to a vendor; magic items are effectively the reagents for enchanting.

"Dr.Ghastly" wrote:
"TheGameguru" wrote:
"Dr.Ghastly" wrote:

You can be pissed, but I can practically garuntee I would ignore your anger ;)

The roll on everything attitude is fine but be warned you may gain an unwanted reputation that may come back and bite your ass in instances where the really good drops show up.

You may find people less sympathetic to passing on rolls for a really cool very class specific item that you could use.

This is true but, call me a callous asshole if you want, it doesn''t really matter to me.

Currently there is only one other person I am always grouping with, and that''s my G/F. I''m always on the lookout for stuff for her first, then myself, then maybe other people if I''m not low on cash. My personal opinion of this kind of thing is that, unless these are once in a lifetime items (meaning only one person can have it, ever) then the person who may be angry at me for rolling on everything can kiss my ass because they can just grind until they get one. They can also ask nicely, and perhaps offer a trade worth my while, and we can come to a reasonable understanding. Of course if they are once in a lifetime items you can probably bet the farm I''m going to keep it, make a character that can use it, and save it for a rainy day.

I realize that this may not seem ""fair"" or ""nice"" to other people, but I completely accept the consequences if I lose and item I may have wanted to someone else''s roll. I''ll try to bargain with them, but if not, hey, they rolled it, it''s theirs fair and square.

No...as long as you realize it goes both ways then your attitude is completely fine.

I''ve run across so many ninja looters than will turn around and whine incessently when the tables are turned on them and its a n item they really want/need.

I take it though that you play on a PVE server though?

I believe its a PVP. It''s on blackhand, whatever type of server that is.

JD, I haven''t had problem with my robe, but it''s a lot less noticeable on a squat gnome.

As far as vest stats go, I''ve recently gotten patterns for a couple of good ones. When you get close and start getting mageweave drops, let me know and I''ll make you one of these, Black Mageweave Vest.

EDIT: Blackhand is PvE, which is where the GWJ guilds are.

What is the difference between PVP and PvE again?

NM.

Higher level enchantments (the ones that people want) require the destruction of higher level (e.g. blue) items. If people want to sell blue items for cash that''s fine, but just bare in mind that there is a legitimate reason for enchanters to want to derez high level items in particular. No one complains about other people wanting to keep reagent drops for use in a craft that also happen to be worth a lot of cash if sold to a vendor; magic items are effectively the reagents for enchanting.

A fair point. I know that if I was an echanter, I would probably salivate at the higher level drops as much, if not more, than I do now.

It''s a hard line to ride... and I think we''re just arguing for the sake of arguing... since we''re all in the same clan, it won''t be something we''ll really be arguing about, in game... I know last night, Ghastly was more than willing to offer me an Axe before he sold/disenchanted/tossed it (by the way, I''m Graxx, and I had a lot of fun playing with you and the GF, Ghast).

So, I guess what I''m saying is I couldn''t care less what you''re doing with your drops in a group of strangers, because, well, I''m not a stranger. I''ll continue to see a green cloth glove drop and think ""oh man, that''ll be nice for the mage in the party"" and you''ll continue to think ""ooh, money"" or ""ooh, essence!"" No sweat.

Oh I knew who you were in the game. I usualy think of essence before money though. Money is easy to come by if your patient. Enchanting reagents are a PITA to get sometimes.

To clarify, Dr.Ghastly, you''d roll against someone for a piece that was an upgrade for them? Every time, no exceptions? Green, blue, purple... just /random?

I am happy with the way looting has been going on the Alliance side of GWJ. We usually have free-for-all on in our groups and if it is an upgrade for someone ,they get it by default. I think people just need to be more aware of looting random beast parts too much. For example, if you take 6 raptor hides in a row and don''t let another person in the group get any, then they just lost out on about 50s+ quickly. As for rolling on everything or doing a /rand, that is usually fine for cash loot outside of an instance. But once again, only if the item is not an upgrade for someone.

"Wounder" wrote:

To clarify, Dr.Ghastly, you''d roll against someone for a piece that was an upgrade for them? Every time, no exceptions? Green, blue, purple... just /random?

Probaby, but it would depend on the person/people. For instance, when I went to Ragefire I was with a group of people who I did not know and would probably never run into again and they were not GWJ. I rolled for everything I could.

Of course I have yet to group with a GWJ person other then Graax and Morella, and we pretty much shared what we could.

Of course there IS an alternative (I forgot about this until last night) in that I can use all the linen I can get because I can just make green clothes and disenchant them for the reagents.

I went through about 100 bolts of linen last night and got enough reagents to give out 3 enchanments to 3 people at Sepulchre last night.

Think about that. 3 enchantments for 3 people, 9 total, and it took me over 100 linen bolts. That''s 200 pieces of linen.

Now do you see why I roll on EVERYTHING?

Sure, but so what? You didn''t have to become an enchanter. I think you''re going to have a hell of a hard time finding folks willing to group with you at some point. This may not trouble you now... if you''re working with linen, that puts you in your 20s, likely... but come raids, you''re going to be on the B list.

And if I was grouped with you and you rolled for something that was an upgrade for me (and naught but chant bait for you), you and I would never be grouped again. I have enough troubles finding gear, I don''t need to worry about getting screwed by my teammates.

I''m not really interested in hearing your justifications, because clearly you''re comfortable with it. I''m not, nor are the folks I group with. Good luck to you.

EDIT: Apologies for the topic derail. Someone please yank back onto tracks...

EDIT: Apologies for the topic derail. Someone please yank back onto tracks...

So priests....
I hear they heal?

"Wounder" wrote:

Sure, but so what? You didn''t have to become an enchanter. I think you''re going to have a hell of a hard time finding folks willing to group with you at some point. This may not trouble you now... if you''re working with linen, that puts you in your 20s, likely... but come raids, you''re going to be on the B list.

I think where you draw the line (at least where I draw the line) is if the item is truly an upgrade as opposed to just something you want to sell for cash.

If it''s a true upgrade, as an enchanter I don''t think the derez is worth taking an item away that is useful. On the other hand, if all you want to do is sell it for cash, then I ask why that is any different than someone who doesn''t tailor wanting his fair share of the silk loot drops so that he can sell them for cash.

The other practical problem with this is that with some group member, every magic item they find that their class can use seems to suspiciously be an ""upgrade"" to what they already have, such that I have a hard time believing that they are not simply selling it. Once again, that''s fine, but don''t complain to me when I take my share of the leather loot, even though I''m not a leatherworker, to simply sell at a vendor.

Excellent thread.. for reference, I''m a 36th level Priest on Bloodhoof (I had major issues with the GWJ server..)

First, let me provide my thoughts on the looting tangent. In groups that I lead, loot is set to Round Robin. If someone grabs an item you need, then either you trade or pay them for it. The game also provides a /random function should there be a need to informally roll. It sounds a bit harsh, but it seems to work itself out.

Now, as to the meat of this thread..

From my experiences, I''ve found my services to be in relatively high demand. Unfortunately, this demand seems to exist for two reasons:

A) Almost every other MMO to date has required a Priest for a successful group (had a lvl 50 Smite Cleric in DAoC). This mentality has been programmed into most veteran player''s thought process. WoW, however, was developed with the idea that no class should be required (as stated by the developers on many occasions). Folks are already figuring this out and can often be satisfied by using a secondary (or a pair of secondary) healer(s).

I''m going to have to respectfully disagree with GG that Priests are required for the high level instances simply because folks are running them now without Priests (there aren''t enough to go around).

-AND-

B) Healing is boring to most and it takes a special breed to sit back and watch health bars (I''m one of those masochists). With most of the groups that I''ve seen, Paladins/Druids/Shamen don''t want that duty and would rather contribute DPS/CC/etc. Having a priest in the group frees these folks to do what they''d prefer to be doing.

Don''t get me wrong, I enjoy the class, but there are a number of areas that could be (and SHOULD be) improved. For one, the Holy Tree as it stands now needs some help. It doesn''t apply enough benefit to justify it''s use over the Shadow and/or Disc. trees. Unless I tell the group, they''d never know that I''m not Holy Spec''d. You could argue that I''m not high enough level for the difference to be felt but why should the Holy Tree be only viable @ 40+ in level? The game should be about the journey, not the end game-uber-raid-instance runs.

Secondly, the aggro system needs some work. This isn''t so much of an issue with Priests as it is with Warriors missing so often with Taunts on mobs that are 3 or more levels higher than their own.

As mentioned above, I''m Shadow spec''d with only 5 points in improved renew (mitigate downtime). Initially I had spec''d almost entirely in the Holy Tree but found soloing to be tedious and slow. After re-specing in Shadow (which costs 1g the first time, 5g the second time, and 5 more with each subsequent respec - 10, 15, 20, etc) the game opened up. My typical pull is usually (solo only):

1) Vampiric Embrace (20% of shadow damage is converted to team heal)
2) Mind Blast
3) PW:Pain
4) Mind Flay (this spell is worth the 20 spec points on it''s own - hands down the best soloing Priest spell in the game)
5) Mind Flay
6) By this point, a mob of my level or +1 is nearly dead and I can melee while the PW:P finishes the job. A +2 mob usually takes an additional MF or MB and most often requires additional downtime/drinking. +3 mobs resist far too much and don''t offer much in the way of additional exp to be worth my time/effort/possible death.

In groups, I usually park my eyes on the health bars and use renew + flash heals. Shields and Greater Heals draw far too much aggro to use in most situations. Improved fade from the Shadow tree (offers +10 sec fade time) certainly helps.

Lastly, and this is more of personal gripe than anything, I wish Blizzard would spice up the class just a bit. The ''utility'' spells that are provided are either ''one-use for fun then forget'' or are only unusable in very specific situations. One spell that I see folks commenting on is Mind Control. On paper this spell looks like a ton of fun, and it can be. However, it''s use is very limited for a couple of reason. 1) While MCing, the Priest can''t heal which is simply not feasible when crawling through instances. Given the shortage of the class on almost every server (which says something to me...), I''ve never had the luxury in my 36 levels of having another Priest in my group which means that I''m doing the healing. 2) Once the MC is finished, the aggro from the controlled humanoid is so high that I''ve never had it pulled off of me.

Other spells provided, such as Mind Vision and Levitate are the same as well. I''ve used the former about 10 times and the latter once.

With all of that being said, I''m having fun with the game and the class. This probably has a lot to do with my booming alchemy business (what DO you guys need those water breathing potions for? At 75s per, I don't really care ;)) and the folks I group with. I have started a Paladin (15th level, also on Bloodhoof) and have been the only healer for a number of groups but that may change as I get him higher.

Chum

(Cidoc - lvl 36 Priest on Bloodhoof)

Good info, Chum.
Even at 45th level I find my priest light in the holy talents as well. I also shy away from talents that have to be activated or toggled. Maybe it''s just laziness on my part, or that until recently I hadn''t used a mod and was stuck with one hotbar at a time. I certainly wouldn''t relish dueling a shadow heavy priest though.

Also, how much stock do you other finger-wagglers put in the spirit stat? I''ve given it prioirty, but not at the expense of a good INT bonus. It''s good to know that even when out of mana, I''m not more than 5 to 10 seconds away from having a useful spell ready.

Not a priest, but a mage here. Regarding spirit, I put it on par with int, maybe out of ignorance. I thought they were pretty comparable but lately I''ve seen some rumblings that some people don''t think spirit is worth it. For me I can tell you my stuff regens FAST and I like it, helps a lot with downtime. I''d be interested to see if someone has some real stats on what each int or spirit point does.

A more interesting quest for me is: Stamina vs Spirit. I will choose an item that has int/sprt bonuses over int/sta. It is my understanding 1 point of stamina equals 10 extra HP points. I''ve been thinking of switching over to int/sta items and seeing how much difference it makes, what do you guys think?

The general druid consensus is that they have to be healers in groups most of the time not only because of the lack of priests, but also because it seems most priests are playing the shadow priest role.

The other practical problem with this is that with some group member, every magic item they find that their class can use seems to suspiciously be an ""upgrade"" to what they already have, such that I have a hard time believing that they are not simply selling it. Once again, that''s fine, but don''t complain to me when I take my share of the leather loot, even though I''m not a leatherworker, to simply sell at a vendor.

Another thing is taking weapons that are not your main weapon. I''m trained in staves, but as a hunter, in reality I''m probably never going to be using a staff when I have a Bitchin'' Meat Car, excuse me bitchin'' axe, to use. So I pass on them even though I could use it. Some people probably do not.

Well... Ill bet some people are just not as moxious as you

To those I say... the typical tavern needs your help... hurry, its not too late! While your there, you may want to visit the distant woods... I hear there are good drops there

Glad to see that this thread is still alive and still kinda on track

I''m enjoying my priest so far (lvl 32) even after my whining from levels 1-20. Speccing in Shadow up to Silence, delving into Discipline atm to get my shield spell down. Been in a few groups, but haven''t done instances (since I''ve been with family most of the time during my leveling spree). Just wanted to add some things...

Chum - how are you liking vampiric embrace? I''m not sure whether or not to pursue that even though it is just one more point after silence... and the shadow form is very very tempting. I also am loving mind blast. Tycho asked about it the other day and I think I kinda downplayed it for some reason, but the fact that it has no recast time is great, esp when combined with shield (since it''s a channel).

Phragged - the role of priests I''m finding kinda weird rather than the straight-forward route I was expecting. A lot of druids are used to healing so in pick-up groups, the roles of each player are a bit murky. Also, it''s also strange being the highest level character in a group since it brings up the question of whether or not you should heal or be contributing dps to the group.

Leaping - For my stats, only my sta, spi, and int are elevated which is just fine for a caster. All three are equal (hovering around 100). I tend to focus on sta and int but I haven''t really been choosy about equipment. Only reason spi is up that high I think is because a: most cloth comes with spi and b: the human race thing adds to it. However, spi only affects downtime I think and in downtime, I''m usually guzzling down those drinks for mana recovery (which are free for you). So since sta and int affect your survivability in combat, I would focus on that rather than spi which is downtime and mages already have a tool to reduce downtime.

Oh yea, like what other priests have already mentioned... loving ''fade''... wish the recast was shorter but the shadow talents have the skill to increase it to 20sec from 10sec.

Spirit vs. Int vs. Stamina...

Well this question is a bit different for me as a Warlock, since part of my normal solo play includes life drain tanking, and since I can convert hit points into mana, Stamina is always my top priority. Int is second and Spirit a distant third... I''ll probably take 1 point of Int over 10 points of Spirit. Other casters probably won''t value Stamina quite as much as a Warlock, but regardless Spirit is pretty useless for them too. First off, high spirit has hugely diminishing returns. Secondly, mana regen doesn''t start until 5 seconds after your last cast, thus you''re virtually never going to be regaining mana until after combat. So the only benefit from Spirit is some marginal downtime reduction when not drinking -- that''s not very worthwhile in my view, especially compared to what you get for more Stamina or Int.

Spirit is generally useless for all classes..

Despite that all my gear seems to have spirit bonuses and thus spirit is pretty high despite what I try to do.

I''ve come to value AGI more than I used to.. its nice to get your crit percentage as high as possible.

I''ve been dipping into pvp with my 26 undead priest, and I can say that Devouring Plague stacked with SW:Pain is just awesome. Throw Mind Flay on top to slow down the enemy''s escape, and the undead priest is a mighty force. Any high level undead priests have some pvp tips?

"Fiddler" wrote:

Chum - how are you liking vampiric embrace? I''m not sure whether or not to pursue that even though it is just one more point after silence... and the shadow form is very very tempting. I also am loving mind blast. Tycho asked about it the other day and I think I kinda downplayed it for some reason, but the fact that it has no recast time is great, esp when combined with shield (since it''s a channel).

So far it''s been a great addition to my solo routine. I can often avoid my pre-emptive shielding on mobs at or below my level. In smaller groups, it''s almost equally as we are usually only taking on smaller groups (2-3) at time. At my level (36), PW:P and Mind Flay heal everyone about 12-15 per tick, with Mind Blast coming in at about 50. It''s not going to replace your healing, but it lessons downtime.

Instances are a different matter as I''m gaining aggro not only from the damage I''m doing but the healing as well. Shields don''t last long against 3 elites.

"Fiddler" wrote:

Leaping - For my stats, only my sta, spi, and int are elevated which is just fine for a caster. All three are equal (hovering around 100). I tend to focus on sta and int but I haven''t really been choosy about equipment. Only reason spi is up that high I think is because a: most cloth comes with spi and b: the human race thing adds to it. However, spi only affects downtime I think and in downtime, I''m usually guzzling down those drinks for mana recovery (which are free for you). So since sta and int affect your survivability in combat, I would focus on that rather than spi which is downtime and mages already have a tool to reduce downtime.

I tend to grab items with int as a first priority, spirit as a second, and stamina as a third. As of this post, with my gear, my stats are as follows:

36th level Cleric

Health 927 (1247 buffed)
Mana 2770

Sta 58 (90 buffed)
Int150
Spi 155

I''d like to believe that Spirit does indeed have an effect, but as the benefit is intangeable, I can only hope that having it that high helps.

Chum

I find that having a high spirit does infact help in combat... when I do run out of mana... it regens fast enough for me to get a few more spells out before we get into any real trouble (most of the time)...