Fable news...

Looks like a nice clean game for my older kid (he just turned 9, and I am going to pick up an XBox and will let him choose a game or two).

They gave it a 9.3 so I''m sure I''ll enjoy the game but I hope it''s not as easy as they make it out to be.

While normally I would argue that I like a more challenging game in this case I think the easyness of the game may be intentional. It seems to me that they are trying to make your character more realistic, and with that perspective how realistic is it to have your character die and then respawn a bunch of times? With the short story and ease of combat I would like to see a mode where if your character dies you have to start the game over. I hope this shows up on PC at some point as it seems like a game that could be made a lot better with user mods.

It seems to me that they are trying to make your character more realistic, and with that perspective how realistic is it to have your character die and then respawn a bunch of times?

The review specifically mentions that when you ""die"" you''ll almost always have a revive potion on hand which automatically brings you back to life on the spot.

With the short story and ease of combat I would like to see a mode where if your character dies you have to start the game over. I hope this shows up on PC at some point as it seems like a game that could be made a lot better with user mods.

That would make it a bit more interesting to be sure

I know IGN has been going on with preview stuff for some time but I didn''t see anyone mention the 8-page review posted today.

I thought those comments were from the review... TeamXbox review is actually 8 pages long as well.

With the short story and ease of combat I would like to see a mode where if your character dies you have to start the game over.

I can''t recall any games that a publisher/developer decided to side with the hardcore market and include Perma-death. (Well, not any that made it to market, do correct me if I''m wrong.) Most gamers just don''t want that.

It''s the ultimate example of crappy save-point systems, IMO, and I want nothing to do with it.

That''s my opinion, but I hate when a developer/designer limits my freedom to stop and start the game when and where I want. I don''t want to have to dedicate X hours in futile attempts to make it from Save Point A to Save Point B only to have to shelve the game until the next time I have X hours to spare on futility exercises again.

Permadeath, while more ""realistic""(really, I hate that argument and the use of that term, especially as pertains to fantasy/sci-fi RPGs, but am not sure what to call it), is definitely a market limiter. Make it a difficulty option for all you sadists out there.

Then again, that''s all abstracted, since I don''t have the hardware for this game.

"Certis" wrote:

They gave it a 9.3 so I''m sure I''ll enjoy the game but I hope it''s not as easy as they make it out to be.

I share that worry, but games tend to be more difficult than reviewers claim, since they get several hours of practice ever day, while most people are lucky to get a few hours a week.

Still, sounds like the emphasis is more on the sandbox aspects and not so much on the combat/gameplay, so I''ll wait ''till I can find a cheap copy.

"duckilama" wrote:

I can''t recall any games that a publisher/developer decided to side with the hardcore market and include Perma-death. (Well, not any that made it to market, do correct me if I''m wrong.)

After you beat Diablo2 on Battle.net you can choose the ""Hardcore"" difficulty level which is a perma-death. And since they store your character on their servers its a real perma-death.. no possible way for you to ""backup"" your character or anything.

A few PC RPGs have included ""ironman"" modes that delete your saves when you''re toasted, but it''s always a choice. It wouldn''t be much different than a ""finishing in the shortest time"" mode.

Too bad they don''t have downloadable content. A few more side quests would be handy.

Guess I''ll start reading reviews now. Was hoping I wouldn''t have to, but after going through this post you guys have me worried.

About the time thing -

Fable is made of several layers of detail. Casual gamers who want a quick experience and some fun can run around the surface of the world, complete the main quest and sidequests, and get out after 15-20 hours of play. However, those who want a little more detail can read into the history of the world, learn a bit more about why certain events have importance. Then you can go a little deeper if you like, interact with NPCs, get married, have censored sex, buy and rent property, sell merchandise, kill everyone in a town (though they will respawn over time), play with kids, terrorize kids, kick chickens, or just get piss drunk and vomit all over yourself. And there is another layer after that. If you really want to spend a good 50-100 hours in Fable, you can. Go searching for all of the Easter Eggs -- Unlock ever silver chest, stumble upon time-sensitive events, figure out how to get hold of the Sandgoose, whatever that may be, or conquer the world with a frying pan.

It''s these layers that make Fable accessible to a much larger audience than a truly open game like Morrowind. That doesn''t mean that games shouldn''t strive for branching story paths and completely open exploration, but Fable is a game that can be played by a casual gamer and a more hardcore gamer and be enjoyed by both on different levels. There aren''t that many Xbox games that do that, as most are basically a one-note experience, even if it''s a great note at that.

Still reading, but getting more encouraged.

I can''t recall any games that a publisher/developer decided to side with the hardcore market and include Perma-death. (Well, not any that made it to market, do correct me if I''m wrong.) Most gamers just don''t want that.

Ducki,

I''m just talking about a mode that is optional maybe even only accessible after you''ve beaten the game once. As Kepheus stated many rpg''s have had similar modes before. But with quotes like the following from the Team XBox review:

Health and Will potions are overly abundant and I only came close to dying once or twice.

I can''t help but think this seems like the first game where a perma-death mode may actually be pretty cool. Becuase not only is the game supposedly short and easy but it seems to me that the major depth of the game comes in the form of the different characters you are able to create by simply playing the game differently. I think the mode would be even better if they had branching story lines. Also what I read from the above quote is that he never even had to use the revive potions. So even if they had a perma-death mode but left the revive potions in the game seems like it would be pretty easy. But again i''m not saying put this in as the only way to play the game, I am just saying that it would be an interesting extra mode.

The review specifically mentions that when you ""die"" you''ll almost always have a revive potion on hand which automatically brings you back to life on the spot.

Yeah i''m sure they have the potions in the game so as not to piss people off but i''m kind of betting they don''t want you to die in the game. Or actually more succinctly I should say I don''t think they want you to have to re-play portions of the game. I''m thinking they want you to experience the game as sort of a continuous virtual life. If you think about it your party getting killed is really only a CRPG convention, in tabletop RPG''s you almost never die or if you do some other party member survives to go and get you raised within the context of the game. If your the entire party got wiped out I would probably avoid playing with that DM again.

My point is as a ""hero"" in one of these games it seems like you shouldn''t die, you should have some close calls and scars to show for your adventures. I like the concept if this is what they are going for, it''s interesting and inovative. If they wern''t going for this kind of thing then I stand corrected. However with all the work they put in to aging and having your character actually recognized as a hero by npc''s i''m sure somewhere along the line they decided that re-loading saved games over and over again just wasn''t all that heroic.

Ah, I misunderstood you Stric9. My mistake.

Wow, tons of originally promised features cut - what a surprise. Still, seems like a very interesting title nonetheless, although some design choices seem very odd. The point that there isn''t a lot of variety in terms of look among the NPCs does seem to hurt the atmosphere a bit. Having you redo quests in case a crucial NPC dies instead of marking them failed doesn''t really go along the idea of ''freedom''. I like how you may be able to get some NPCs to follow you and command them in battle. However, seeing that the game is supposedly so easy, this seems rather like a gag than a truly helpful feature. Would make more sense if it was like Gothic II, which is quite tough in the early stages when you''re on your own.

That''s not to say you won''t feel challenged in combat, but the reality of death just isn''t there.

There is something truly funny about the ""reality"" of death being considered missing from a video game.... its strikes me as surreal.

I get what he is saying.

As for buy or rent....its a purchase. Great reviews already and 5 years in the making. i am in.

Wow, tons of originally promised features cut - what a surprise.

At least they''re not shipping it and pretending it''s there or promising to patch it in for free... that bit is a surprise.