No Ritalin = child abuse?

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Livin...

Should the boy's father be put in jail for this? Does the state have the right to force children to go on mind-altering medications, simply because the teachers find them 'disruptive'?

This is ridiculous. I am not as anti-medication as I once was, since my wife is a teacher and has first-hand knowledge of the difference it can make in some kids, but there''s no excuse for this sort of thing.

Some penalty should be put in place, but not jail time. I was around a child 2 weekends ago whose mother refused to put her on ritalin. The child was absolutely acting inappropriately and had also been turned away by four schools because of her condition. The mother needed to get a clue obviously. Cigarettes were more important than her child''s well being.

What did we ever do with our children before we had these great happy pills?

"Minase" wrote:

What did we ever do with our children before we had these great happy pills?

Beat them.

"Flux" wrote:

Some penalty should be put in place, but not jail time. I was around a child 2 weekends ago whose mother refused to put her on ritalin. The child was absolutely acting inappropriately and had also been turned away by four schools because of her condition. The mother needed to get a clue obviously. Cigarettes were more important than her child''s well being.

Just because the child misbehaves doesn''t mean they need medication. Riddialn has been tied to violience with kids. I was put on drugs when I was in school and I didn''t need it. Teachers just don''t want to put up with any work.

"Ulairi" wrote:
"Flux" wrote:

Some penalty should be put in place, but not jail time. I was around a child 2 weekends ago whose mother refused to put her on ritalin. The child was absolutely acting inappropriately and had also been turned away by four schools because of her condition. The mother needed to get a clue obviously. Cigarettes were more important than her child''s well being.

Just because the child misbehaves doesn''t mean they need medication. Riddialn has been tied to violience with kids. I was put on drugs when I was in school and I didn''t need it. Teachers just don''t want to put up with any work.

Let me clarify on my post, the child was diagnosed and it was agreed upon by two doctors that she needed ritalin. She wasn''t a normal child by any stretch of the imagination.

"Flux" wrote:
"Ulairi" wrote:
"Flux" wrote:

Some penalty should be put in place, but not jail time. I was around a child 2 weekends ago whose mother refused to put her on ritalin. The child was absolutely acting inappropriately and had also been turned away by four schools because of her condition. The mother needed to get a clue obviously. Cigarettes were more important than her child''s well being.

Just because the child misbehaves doesn''t mean they need medication. Riddialn has been tied to violience with kids. I was put on drugs when I was in school and I didn''t need it. Teachers just don''t want to put up with any work.

Let me clarify on my post, the child was diagnosed and it was agreed upon by two doctors that she needed ritalin. She wasn''t a normal child by any stretch of the imagination.

Ah. That''s a bit different then. Otherwise I would have agreed with Ulairi.

I am totally anti-medication (at least where Ritalin is concerned). You gotta love an educational system that has little or no room for activity anymore, and dopes the kids to ""correct"" the problem. I''m not blaming the teachers for this; they are only trying to follow the curriculum.

One of the most troubling things I have been hearing lately is general feeling from the educational administrators that boys are basically defective, and slow down the pace of teaching for the girls in class. Think I''m being alarmist? Check this out:

Boys are three times more likely to be diagnosed with Attention Deficit Disorder than girls.
Boys are four times more likely to be prescribed Ritalin.
Currently over one million boys in the United States take Ritalin daily

Kids need time to be kids. Teaching is important, but playing is important too.

More later.

Perhaps good parenting fromt he beginning would have helped? Maybe?

What did we ever do with our children before we had these great happy pills?

It was called recess. Boys need time to go and work off excess energy. Pretending that they don''t doesn''t make them have any less energy, so schools love the idea of a drug that can make boys sit down and shut up.

The pediatric guidelines for diagnosing ADHD are all subjective; e.g., often has difficulty awaiting turn, occasionally may do things compulsively, easily distracted from tasks, fails to give close attention to details, makes careless mistakes. Using such non-scientific behavioral criteria, it''s no wonder we hear that extraordinary numbers of children are accused of having ADHD.

Some doctors suggest that as much as 25% of children suffer from Attention Deficit Disorder, which leads me to question: if 25% of the population ''suffer'' from this ''disorder'' is it actually a disorder? This father absolutely should have the right to decide what medication is appropriate and safe for his child, and as I read it, he made an educated decision based on what''s best for his son. Absolutely ridiculous that he should be penalized in any way.

On the contrary, he should be praised.

The pediatric guidelines for diagnosing ADHD are all subjective; e.g., often has difficulty awaiting turn, occasionally may do things compulsively, easily distracted from tasks, fails to give close attention to details, makes careless mistakes.

Is it me, or does this sound like being a child? We have no right to expect children to act like small contemplative adults, and our society''s exacerbation at having to put up with the natural behavior of children is disturbing at best.

This is one point where I suspect JMJ and I are in complete agreement. I think that alone deserved a second post.

Is it me, or does this sound like being a child? We have no right to expect children to act like small contemplative adults, and our society''s exacerbation at having to put up with the natural behavior of children is disturbing at best.

Exactly. The public schools were anti-male and when I was growing up there were articles about how teachers wanted every little boy to be put on the drugs.

I''ve always believed american''s over medicate, period. Our children are no exception. I don''t remember getting allergy shots, or rittalin, or anything like that when I was a kid. To this day I never get a flu shot. I remember going to a lot of psychiatrists though, but all that led to was the fact my parents were neglectful assholes.

Could it perhaps be that parents now days seem to want to shirk off some of the responsibility of being a parent on to drugs? Not that it''s completely their fault. After all, the medical community sure does push these drugs on us claiming all sorts of benefits.

Must be the first time I''ve seen a bunch of non-Scientologists agree with Scientologists.

The worst is when you here a parent say,"" Johny is out of control. I cant deal with him..."" There is no such thing as ""cant deal"" as a parent. You have to! Its not about you its about your children. Damnit this fries me.

That sounds to me like its a parent problem that they want to medicate the child for.

That ADHD description sounds a lot like me when I was young. Im so glad they didnt medicate me.

Didnt we have a thread here about home schooling... ?

I remember going to a lot of psychiatrists though, but all that led to was the fact my parents were neglectful assholes.

Whether they deserve it or not, forgive them and let it go. Trust me it one of the most healthy things you can do for yourself. I did it when I was 20 and from that day forward, my actions are my own responsibility and I grew as a person by leaps and bounds.

Whether they deserve it or not, forgive them and let it go. Trust me it one of the most healthy things you can do for yourself. I did it when I was 20 and from that day forward, my actions are my own responsibility and I grew as a person by leaps and bounds.

Not to turn this into the therapy hour, but I''m not a forgiving person. I also do not feel that my refusal to forgive them holds me back in responsibility for my own actions or personal growth.

I recently self-diagnosed myself with ADD. Ask Jadawin, Gorack, or Tobyus. I can be too much sometimes. While it sounds funny, it is pretty hard to live with.

I have ADD. I''d do something about it but my apathy gets in the way

Since I''m gearing up to do my student teaching in January, I''ve been doing observations in elementary schools and high schools. I''m going to be teaching high school choir, but since I will be certified K-12...you never know. One thing I''ve heard from a number of music teachers is ""don''t go into the teacher''s lounge til Christmas.""

The idea is that if you hear 5 teachers tell you how out of control and bad Bobby is, that it will color how you see him and deal with him. Fact is, music class is an ideal environment for ADD or ADHD kids. You''re always doing something, there''s new activities every 5 minutes, you get to move around and touch things and make noise. I know of one teacher in particular who always laughs about the fact that her favorite students (the ones who actively participate and have high energy) are the ones the other teachers complain about.

I observed one 5th grade music class where things were always on the edge of going out of control. I was scared because I was going to be teaching them for 7-8 minutes the very next week. Plus, I wanted to do something a little complex that might or might not work (and the teacher and my professor would only smile and say, ""Try it. See what happens."")

The next week when I had to teach, it was like a whole different room of kids. They were polite and receptive. There''s a Bobby McFerrin blues improv piece where he gets the audience singing an accompaniment while he sings (and improvs). I taught a simplified version with the girls singing a two-note pattern, and the boys singing the same thing, but lower to create pretty sweet harmony. I then told them that I was going to improv over them, but if they wanted to join me they could sing whatever they wanted. The teacher''s jaw fell open and stayed there while I got her 20 kids singing harmony, and all of the boys who had been acting up inappropriately the week before were the ones who would echo my improvs and even do some fo their own stuff. The ""worst"" kid from the previous week spontaneously shouted, ""Sing it!"" when I did a difficult little improv. It rocked, and I knew I could teach any age I need to teach.

So if you read all the way up to this point, I have to agree that in part it''s the teaching method (and subject), in part it''s the parents, and in part...hey, it''s a kid. You can tell which kids have structure/rules/consistency at home. You can also tell which kids need more time/attention than you can give out and still teach all of them. It''s not easy, either way.

Are kids getting less recess today than they used to?

"Alien13z" wrote:

Are kids getting less recess today than they used to?

Yes. In some places none at all. They are also doing all day kindergarten here in AZ.

I think the recess rationale is "Less time spent frivolously, more spent studying."

Excellent story, Roo, but more importantly excellent example of how well an original concept can change perspective.

Roo: That''s a really cool story. Just wanted to say that.

Dr. Ghastly: Back to therapy hour Forgive & let go. You may not think it''s holding you back from anything, but is it really doing you any good? Do those feeling bring you any peace, or make you feel better about the situation? I recently went through the exact same thought process as you seem to express, and I finally decided it''s just time to let go.

RE: The story... horrifying. Terribly intrusive. The diagnosis criteria put out by JMJ above could describe me and every single one of my classmates back when I was elementary school.

I think this is turning out to be a consensus topic in P&C. Yay!

Look, I''m pretty biased against doctors. That''s my disclaimer.

But it does sound like they just want to make business with the kids. I''ve never thought drugs are the answer to behaviour disorders. They''re usually not tested enough for long term effects. What problems are these kids going to have when they grow up? Are they hooked on drugs forever?

The idea is that if you hear 5 teachers tell you how out of control and bad Bobby is, that it will color how you see him and deal with him. Fact is, music class is an ideal environment for ADD or ADHD kids. You''re always doing something, there''s new activities every 5 minutes, you get to move around and touch things and make noise. I know of one teacher in particular who always laughs about the fact that her favorite students (the ones who actively participate and have high energy) are the ones the other teachers complain about.

My mom is a teacher and when I got into high school she heard from friends that teachers would say things about me. I think that there are a lot of bad teachers who push these things on children and parents.

"Flux" wrote:

I recently self-diagnosed myself with ADD. Ask Jadawin, Gorack, or Tobyus. I can be too much sometimes. While it sounds funny, it is pretty hard to live with.

The only place I have really noticed it is with gaming- if a game occupies you for a week, it''s pretty amazing. It''s never bothered me, though.

The only place I have really noticed it is with gaming- if a game occupies you for a week, it''s pretty amazing. It''s never bothered me, though.

I finished NWN don''t forget.

"Dr.Ghastly" wrote:

I think the recess rationale is "Less time spent frivolously, more spent studying."

This also goes for uniforms.