WoW and Rest States, lets have a conversation.

Islands of Kesmai, I believe.

IoK= Islands of Kesmai


I thought it was text-based- shows what I know.

And to be blunt, for a lot of people, these are number-crunching math games, for better or for worse.

Very true.

They make most of the game and in particular the early game, figuring out how to play and what class can do what at what level to be godly. They might be able to lessen some of this if these games werent so ""mysterious"" and cryptic about basic concepts.

So inherently MMO''s will never be for casual gamers

If I have my way, this will not be the case. Though it''s probably best for a general MMO discussion and not rest-time specific, I think that MMOs (if they can manage to continue to be profitable) will inevitably be divided into pay plans for game options. While most of you are familiar with fantasy type MMO, this is much easier for me to relate in a futuristic persistant universe terms.
For example, for the super casual gamer, you have a ''free'' option. In FPU terms, that could amount to flying the ''enemy of the paying customer'' generic fighters. Mayhaps with minimal customization, but your character wouldn''t advance...but if you wanted to fly around and blow chit up, you''re set.
For the casual gamer, you could have the ''paying customer military'' where for 4.95/9.95 a month you''re a fighter pilot that can increase in rank, command wings of other players, etc.
For core gamers 9.95 a month, you can do the military, but allow for further advancement (and ofcourse casual players can upgrade)
and so on.. The more MMO''s learn to harness players for content, and provide options to fit people play schedules, the better the MMOs will be.

On the topic at hand, I''m all for anything that makes RP sense in the game. I know the characters are going to be heroes, but I like the added realism of performance (though not necessarily xp) decreasing over time. If you run amok for 14 hours fighting monsters, you''re gonna get worn out. Hell, I''m lucky to go at the heavy bag for 15 minutes. Reducing XP seems very artificial. If I learn that an elbow smash into a skeletons face is effective after 30 minutes of fighting, or if I figure that out after fighting for 4 hours, I still figured it out.

"Jadawin" wrote:

I thought it was text-based- shows what I know.

It was originally...later custom front ends were made that turned it into something like Nethack with graphic tiles instead of text.

I like the tiered payment plans. However, I feel people playing for free dont have anything invested into the game. Especialy if like you said they cant increase in level. Look at the Lineage 2 beta one hour experience thread. THe beta is ending and since everything youve worked for is going away or what you do doesnt matter, the world has degenerated into a grief and gank fest.

Granted the paying customers can deal with the non paying customers with an open PvP MMO. However, how much of a drain on the other aspects of the game if paying customers have to deal with delinquents a good portion of the day every day. Also isnt that giving to much power into the hands of those playing for free if they can stir enough sh*t up to disrupt paying customers experience?

The payment system in the original Never Winter Nights in the early days I think did help keep out the umm....trash for lack of better word.

Since you had to pay about $4 an hour in those days to play it was easy to have a $300 a month fee to play.

Neddless to say there were not many griefers arround.

As for powergamers vs casual gamers while there isn''t direct competition in most cases they do effect each other. It can be any where from which group gets content developed for them to any number of things.

I think a lot of you by the sound of it want to get to the top real fast then to go ''play the game''. I enjoy a slow leveling process. How do you make a game that satisfies both of us? I do not think you can really so somebody is going to be left out and I think a company just needs to decide up front how they are going to handle some of these fundamental equations.

As for handling all the numbers behind the scenes I just do not see that happening well. AC2 has some of this and people complained bitterly about a ""dumbed down game"". Despite it flaws AC2 did a lot of things somewhat right (fast leveling, no forced trips to town, not a huge number crunching game).