A question of philosophy and taxes

I can''t agree with raising taxes as the lesser of two evils. Once government gets used to spending at a certain level it insists on staying there. It becomes too painful to lower the taxes later. Look at the hysteria regarding these tax cuts.

Also, the tax system is a mess. They can lower your taxes on one end and raise them on another and you will never know it.

One fundamental issue I see is that some people want to look at everyone else and decide what they NEED. What has happened to allowing an individual the personal freedom to figure that out for themselves? This causes the tax system to be used as a force for wealth redistribution. This is flawed, and allows for abuse.

I feel that life is fairer, freer, and fundamentally better the less goverment is involved (though I do not want to get rid of government). I don''t want my nieghbors to decide what I need or deserve.

I agree with you Taz. The tax system needs a massive overhaul. There is no reason for anything but a flat tax.

One of my other favorite sayings is that a conservative sees something bad and thinks it should be illegal, while a liberal sees something good and thinks it should be legally mandated.

God forbid that anyone make their own choices. Haven''t we learned that the government does a better job thinking for us? I mean, seriously, on our own we might make mistakes.

Just for the record (in case my sarcastic post earlier wasn''t obvious enough), I throw my hat in with Robear and Elysium on this one.

And frankly, too many of the people who get into middle management and become good earners don''t get it by ""hard work,"" they get it by learning how to kiss ass and give the appearance of hard work. Granted, I''m still pretty young, but everyplace I''ve worked, that''s been the way to get ahead. Screw everyone else as best you can without getting caught.

Me? I refuse to turn myself into scum of the earth just to get some more green pieces of paper. I''ll never be wealthy, because that''s not a driving force in my life. I know I''ve given my long diatribe on that multiple times, so I''ll spare you this time.

And hey, more on-topic, if it weren''t for the backs of all those lesser people that you have to step on to get wealthy in America, there wouldn''t be an economy to give you that wealth. So yeah, I say that those who gain the most from our nation have a responsibility to give the most back.

That said, I''m in full support of stripping down our bloated tax code and government spending in order to rebuild it more efficiently. If we''re going to be taxed, why not have that money actually do some good instead of being wasted so often?

I can''t agree with raising taxes as the lesser of two evils. Once government gets used to spending at a certain level it insists on staying there. It becomes too painful to lower the taxes later. Look at the hysteria regarding these tax cuts.

I agree.

Should I have the resources, I would chose to influence the government programs by example. Start on a small scale and make managable differences locally to help fill the gaps.

The difference with privatization is that the goverment may be bloated and wasteful but it is the only one willing to make the time on the large scale. Private parties are not going to fill the gaps any more than they are now should we see huge cuts in social programs.

Tough love will work on some but most will be lost. There has got to be many levels of middle ground. We all know handouts create dependancy. We all know that only a small percentage responds to tough love.

On the topic of dependancy... I''ll pose the thought that everyone of us requires hand outs, rich and poor. If you live in this country, the government subsidizes quite a few daily needs: food, gasoline, utilities...

Im not saying the wealthy could not weather the price increases should they refrain from subsidies. I am saying that dont begrudge the poor for not wanting to forgo assistance.

I am really puzzled by this issue. To me, if people are happy with where they are at and what they have, why spend all this effort and research and support journalistic efforts to convince themselves that everything is all right?

Conservatives have propped up newspapers, books, TV and radio programs as daily affirmation that everything is allright. They need pundits that say liberals are all alarmist and anything wrong is water under the bridge.

If everything is ok, why has mass media exploded with an influx of conservative based self affirmation?

The difference with privatization is that the goverment may be bloated and wasteful but it is the only one willing to make the time on the large scale. Private parties are not going to fill the gaps any more than they are now should we see huge cuts in social programs.

I think the solution is to have the programs, means-test them so that only those who need them get them, but let private industries run the systems themselves. Also, it is fine to require people to set aside money for healthcare and retirement through payroll taxes, but there is no reason that individuals cannot make their own choices about how the money is spent.

You want social security? Fine. Take the money from a payroll tax and create individual retirement accounts with it. This will get you a better return than social security pays now, and is self-sustaining. If the markets are down for a few years and the return for some is less than current level, then government can make up the difference. but this is a far cry from the current system, which will be bankrupt long before anyone on these forums will get to take advantage of the system they are currently paying for...

but this is a far cry from the current system, which will be bankrupt long before anyone on these forums will get to take advantage of the system they are currently paying for...

I''m not convinced of this. The social security system is so broken, and yet so pervasive I can''t see it going away until the whole country is in economic ruin.

I''m not convinced of this. The social security system is so broken, and yet so pervasive I can''t see it going away until the whole country is in economic ruin.

I too am curious how far it will go. Is it transparent enough that people will gripe every now and then but never muster enough to do something about it?