9/11 Smack Talk
I thought it would be appropriate to separate out the thread where people could post their comments or reflections on 9/11 from this thread, where a (likely heated) debate on the issues surounding 9/11 could take place. I think some back-and-forth is warranted, but don't want to overpower the legitimate musings of those who want to share, but have no desire to take place in an argument.
I really just couldn't let this go by:
And that, I must say, is a greater act of terror than that which killed them.
I have to say, I see this sentiment a lot. Pyro mirrored this thought when he said:
"]those acts [by the US government] have done more to destroy American freedom than the terrorists ever thought possible
I always love bold statements about great acts of terror and the destruction of American freedom, which use absolutely no specific examples to back themselves up. How about letting us know what you're talking about?
The "Patriot Act", the "Office of Homeland Security", violating the principles behind the very Constitution upon which our nation was founded in order to hold "enemy combatants" with no regard to their rights as citizens or international POW procedures that we helped establish.
Theexistenceof a law or department doesn't violate any civil liberties. So how about providing a specific case where the Patriot Act has "destroyed American freedom" or violated the principles of the Constitution. Give me a name, a set of charges, and explain why they are unjust or how they violate the bill of rights.
As far as the outcry over enemy combatants, the Geneva Convention requires that belligerents:
* have a fixed distinctive emblem recognizable at a distance;
* carry arms openly; and
* conduct their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.
I don't think our friends at Guantanamo qualify - looks liketheychose illegal combatant designation, not us. And yet we are still treating them in accordance with the basic provisions of Geneva. No problem here.
Then there are those complaining that we have detained citizens as enemy combatants. I don't know the specific allegations you are making. Given that all three branches of government have supported this (which applies to exactly 2 people), why is this a problem?
I cannot count the 376 soldiers lost in the "War on Terror" in the same way that that I do the ~3,000 civilians who died on September 11, 2001.
Look, for those of you who cannot connect terrorist groups who want to kill us and drive us from the Middle East with rogue states who support terror, celebrate the murder of Americans, and want to drive us from the Middle East - I won't waste anymore time trying to convince you. We can agree to disagree.
But comments like this:
is a pity that our own leaders have besmirched the memories of those who died in this tragedy through making acts of terror of another sort against our nation
The actions of our leaders are an insult to their memory
those very memories are being spat upon by our nation's actions
are incredibly insulting to some of us - and strike me as ignorant of reality as well. If the government's reation to 9/11 was so evil, what would you rather they have done?