It ain't over kids...

The British suspect does not appear to be connected to a known terrorist group.

Authorities stressed that no specific, credible threat was connected to the alleged plot.

The British suspect does not appear to be connected to a known terrorist group.

Authorities stressed that no specific, credible threat was connected to the alleged plot.

What''s your point? That we shouldn''t worry about things like this?

No, but your title, combined with today''s discussions, seems to imply that this was connected to al-Qaeda. Frankly, we don''t know anything about the arms seller or his political interests, but we can infer:

* That he wasn''t a terrorist

* The fake sale was prompted by the agent (who honestly walks around asking ""You wanna buy a missle"")

* The dealer may in fact be Russian, since he purchased the dummy weapon in St. Petersburg (I doubt a lot of Middle Easterners walk around Russia with impunity these days)

Bear in mind that al-Qaeda terrorists still have access to Stinger missles sold to them by the US through Pakistan in the 80s. The Stinger is far superior to the SA-18. The Stinger''s maximum range is 8 kilometers versus the SA-18''s 5 kilometers. The trick with the Stinger, though, is that it''s both pricy and hard to come by. The SA-18 is similar to the older SA-7 (the kind used against the Israeli airliner over Kenya) and is cheap by comparison. However, the SA-18 warhead is only marginally bigger and al-Qaeda left behind two missles in Kenya. If al-Qaeda were to buy Russian missles, they would have bought more than one, given that one SA-18 has only a 30 to 50% chance of bringing down an unprotected fighter, let alone a much larger airliner. I recall that in the Kenya attack, there was talk that even if the SA-7 hit, it probably wouldn''t have done that much damage to the aircraft. I wouldn''t worry unless I were flying from an airport outside the US and Europe.

there was talk that even if the SA-7 hit, it probably wouldn''t have done that much damage to the aircraft. I wouldn''t worry unless I were flying from an airport outside the US and Europe.

Wow. Hear that folks? You don''t have to worry about terrorists trying to shoot down airliners. Rat Boy says it''s totally safe! Plus, he doesn''t really believe there are terrorists out there! Let''s quit all this silly talk about war and hunting Al Qaeda and just enjoy this really nice, sunny day!

Rat, I''m not a particularly religious person, but you make me thank God every day that Republicans are in charge right now. And thank you for the head in the sand mentality you and the Democrats have about the real world. It is what will ensure Republican presidents for many more terms...

What''s your point? As Ratboy said himself terrorists could have access to weapons through other sources and them having potential access to AA stuff whatever way is not really breaking news. This kind of threat isn''t new at all, apparently people already forgot about an incident of that kind in Africa a while ago where the attack missed its target though. The funny thing is that the case you brought up now under ""it ain''t over yet""-premise was in fact FBI-induced and was blown way out of proportion by certain US and UK media outlets as ""massive strike against terrorism"" or something like that. Your point? Someone willing to trade missiles for a massive amount of money? Breaking news for weapon dealers all around the world.

Plus, he doesn''t really believe there are terrorists out there! Let''s quit all this silly talk about war and hunting Al Qaeda and just enjoy this really nice, sunny day!

The sun is shining and apart from preparations for an oncoming exam I actually really enjoying this day. I guess you prefer staying in the basement and worrying about terrorist attacks 24/7 judging your statement, but hey, to each his own.

I think his point is that we caught someone selling a missle that could have been sold to any nutcase. Some moron in a militia could have got the missle or a terrorist could have.

This kind of threat isn''t new at all

I''m going to go out on a wild limb here and say that arms dealers selling missiles to potential terrorists in the US is a pretty new and big problem. Maybe it''s just me.

"ralcydan" wrote:

I''m going to go out on a wild limb here and say that arms dealers selling missiles to potential terrorists in the US is a pretty new and big problem. Maybe it''s just me.

Don''t forget he and his associates came to the US with the missle because of the undercover agent.

Don''t forget he and his associates came to the US with the missle because of the undercover agent.

Well, since we know that no terrorist could possibly be in the US, this must not be a problem then... Please.

"ralcydan" wrote:

Well, since we know that no terrorist could possibly be in the US, this must not be a problem then... Please.

I pointed out that this particular arms dealer came to America by the invitation of an FBI agent, not al-Qaeda. You''re overreacting.

You''re overreacting.

I am glad to hear you say that, as it is a good indication of how other Democrats think, which is almost insanely out of synch with what the public believes. This will certainly ensure many Republican administrations to come...

It''s as if I said we need to watch out for terrorists flying planes into the WTC, to which you respond that terrorists prefer to use bombs and history shows they it would be difficult for them to attack US soil. Besides, you say, the buildings are structurally sound enough to take the hit. Whoops...

Well, as someone that flies 4-6 times a month, I can say that I personally would be very concerned with the thought of someone being able to launch a AA missile at a commercial airliner within US airspace.

It might mot be an immediate concern, and won''t change my travel habits, but it is something that bothers me.

By the way:

"Rat Boy" wrote:

The dealer may in fact be Russian, since he purchased the dummy weapon in St. Petersburg (I doubt a lot of Middle Easterners walk around Russia with impunity these days)

The dealer was identified as British citizen Hemant Lakhani. Not Russian. His name indicates Middle Eastern, or perhaps Pakistani or Indonesian descent.

Plus the other men arrested rtelated to the scheme support the idea that this is related to Muslim extremism:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/951575.asp

A second defendant, Malaysian citizen Moinuddeen Ahmed Hameed, was charged with money laundering. The maximum sentence is five years.

Both men were held without bail pending a detention hearing Monday.

Officials also announced charges against a third man, Yehuda Abraham, who was to be arraigned in federal court in Manhattan on Wednesday on money laundering charges.

All three men may be Muslims of Malaysian descent.

"Rat Boy" wrote:

If al-Qaeda were to buy Russian missles, they would have bought more than one

Hemant Lakhani, had said he would arrange the operation only if the buyers would "order another 50 of these missiles to make it worthwhile."

"Rat Boy" wrote:

al-Qaeda terrorists still have access to Stinger missles sold to them by the US through Pakistan in the 80s.

First of all, the US has never sold Al Qaeda Stinger missiles, directly or through anyone at all. Secondly, there are other terrorist groups out there besides Al Qaeda. Maybe we should worry about them too?

The dealer was identified as British citizen Hemant Lakhani. Not Russian. His name indicates Middle Eastern, or perhaps Pakistani or Indonesian descent.

I believe I read that he is a naturalized British citizen of Indian descent.

"ralcydan" wrote:

The dealer was identified as British citizen Hemant Lakhani. Not Russian. His name indicates Middle Eastern, or perhaps Pakistani or Indonesian descent.

If you didn''t notice, that was speculation from last night. The identities of the accused were published until this morning.

Hemant Lakhani, had said he would arrange the operation only if the buyers would "order another 50 of these missiles to make it worthwhile."

Need I remind you who the buyers were, again?

First of all, the US has never sold Al Qaeda Stinger missiles, directly or through anyone at all.

False. Nine hundred Stinger missles were given to the Afghans between 1986 and 1987. Before the 2001 Afghan War, there still were 200 or so still out there. Naturally, some have been retaken by the US, but not all.

Secondly, there are other terrorist groups out there besides Al Qaeda. Maybe we should worry about them too?

If you want to vent your fears about terrorism, maybe you should contact the Homeland Security Department.

Ral, you normally argue from a much more reasoned sentiment than ""ha ha ha you dumb democrats."" Someone fart in your fruitloops? Anyway, just not sure what set you off about this.

The weirdest thing about this incident is that the U.S. arranged with Russia for *Russia* to supply this guy with the AA missile thingie. So what this tells me is...they''ve stopped almost nothing with their little sting operation. Did they find and destroy a stockpile of blackmarket shoulder fired missile launchers and rockets? Nope. Two governments set up 3 schmucks. Were large scale operations interupted? Nope. Really almost nothing happened.

Jamming equipment is *supposed* to get put on american airliners in next two years. Maybe.

Still there''s something about 1 guy with a rocket launcher in Kenya making the entire U.S. fleet of airplanes upgrade their equipment, at I imagine great expense, that fills me with a sense of defeat rather than security. Is our entire nation going to scream ""how high?"" every time a terrorist says, ""jump!"" Related to this, if I hear one more news item explicitly explaining how various parts of the U.S. infrastructure is an easy target for terrorists...

I second the motion for not living in fear and paranoia. In living in defeat. I also second the motion for carpet bombing terrorist training camps. Sort of a mixed view, but I never promised to be coherent.

"Rat Boy" wrote:

If you want to vent your fears about terrorism, maybe you should contact the Homeland Security Department.

I can always tell when you''re having a bad day, Rat when you try to tell people to shut up instead of dealing with arguments...

Oh, and Roo - thanks for two things:

"Roo" wrote:

I second the motion for not living in fear and paranoia. In living in defeat. I also second the motion for carpet bombing terrorist training camps.

I agree wholeheartedly.

And I need to actually find a way to use: ""ha ha ha you dumb democrats"" in my posts more often....

Doesn''t it make you cringe, though, when it looks like we''re spending a couple billion dollars because 10 terrorists did something or said something and might be able to do something in the future? I don''t like being ruled by terrorist actions, and I don''t consider that sticking my head in the sand.

And yeah, no matter how liberal I am on social issues, if the CIA can prove to itself a group of 10 people in Syria are planning on killing alot of U.S. citizens I have no problem with killing them first. Effectively, quickly, and without remorse.

Who says you have to aim a Stinger at the sky?

*walks off whistling

"ralcydan" wrote:

I can always tell when you''re having a bad day, Rat when you try to tell people to shut up instead of dealing with arguments...

I don''t believe I told you to shut up, just to redirect your concerns from this statement:

Maybe we should worry about them too?

...to those who would be better able (ideally) to address them.

Like Roo said:

Two governments set up 3 schmucks.

Really, this story doesn''t change much. We knew that terrorists might be trying to buy this stuff for years (at least since 2001/2002, after a spent missile launcher was found near an airbase in Saudi Arabia). We know that they already have access to these weapons (from the Soviet/Afghan war). Frankly, this is nothing new; just three idiots that got burned.