In debt? Spend more!

As an example of the California government''s awesome ability to manage money I present you this article.

"Ulairi" wrote:

You cannot find any imperical data that shows larger class rooms hurt education.

Bigger class rooms might not hurt education at all, but bigger classes sure as hell do.

The cold, mathematical, possibly even evil, part of me agrees with using sin taxes. After all, I don''t do any of those things. But that doesn''t make it just. (well, I suppose I do drive, but I also own a small fuel efficient car, manual transmission even...)

I also don''t see how anyone can think taxing gas, cigarettes, alcohol, and fast food is going to help those people who need help? I''d wager that a typical ''person in need'' is much more likely to smoke, drink, and eat at a cheap burger joint than a typical ''well to do'' person. Driving may be a different story, but gas taxes don''t just effect SUVs, they also effect the trucking industry, and how do you think that Milk (or even cigarettes and beer) get to the store?

From a purely mathematical standpoint, income taxes are progressive, so the more you earn, the more you pay. Sin taxes are not, so everyone pays the same. And if you can afford to avoid them, they can be avoided entirely. The people who need help can''t afford to avoid them.

"Alien Love Gardener" wrote:

Bigger class rooms might not hurt education at all, but bigger classes sure as hell do. ;)

You have some support for that I suppose??

As in links? No. I''m just relaying what has been the opinions of teachers here when the issue has been up for discussion. Larger means less time for individual students who might be in need of some extra help, and also makes it more difficult to maintain order.
It''s hardly rocket science.

"Alien Love Gardener" wrote:

As in links? No. I''m just relaying what has been the opinions of teachers here when the issue has been up for discussion. Larger means less time for individual students who might be in need of some extra help, and also makes it more difficult to maintain order.
It''s hardly rocket science.

A couple years ago the national debate topic was Education. Smaller class rooms hasn''t shown to increase our educational value. I think the problem is lack of competition.

No the problem with education is lack of stimulation to learn and hormones. Also include lack of parent involvement, repetative coursework and bland, baseless nationalized tests. (Not SATs but I''m sure everyone remembers the inane CTBS tests)

I have some gripes about the SATs too (lets test english skills by seeing how well you can memorize the dictionary) but those issues above take priority.

And yes there are a number of bad teachers with tenure.

I want to know what has changed in the last 30 years? We keep spending more money and it doesn''t solve anything.

Whats changed is more adminstrative costs (including many unfunded mandates from the state and federal level) along with moving the focus from fact based to opinon based. It may be that kids are actually learning more, but what they are learning is how to accept ideas they don''t understand and express their feelings in socially acceptable ways. However, those things aren''t being tested for on standardized tests, so who really knows.

Back to Alien Love Gardener question, no I don''t need links, but at least some hand waving about vague studies would be nice. Something about someone who compared some larger and smaller classes and what they discovered. From what I''ve heard, anything over ~8 doesn''t make a difference (the teacher doesn''t have time for anybody anyway).

A quick idea on helping state budget woes: Ending the ''War on Drugs''. This would have the effect of decreasing costs in law enforcement, prisons, and our bloated and overexploited court system. I''d rather see the money used to drop a SWAT team on some poor farmer growing dope to make ends meet to provide better schools and health care. Let us add up the cost of a kid getting busted for selling a bag of pot, shall we?

1 hour of officer''s time (which could be argued to be priceless, given that he may have saved a life if he were doing something useful) - about $150

Judges, clerks, baliffs, and possible jury/lawyer time to hear the case, which could drag on with several appeals, etc: $1000 - $50000

Depending on the amount of pot sold, we''ve got prison expenses, followed by a probation officers time and other assorted officials'' time, plus possible income and sales taxes not being collected on kid''s job & consumption: up to 100k

So, our fine state has just spent up to about $150k because a guy commited the horrible crime of selling pot. Multiply that by the thousands of cases each year, and I certainly see some fat that could be trimmed from a state budget.

A couple years ago the national debate topic was Education. Smaller class rooms hasn''t shown to increase our educational value. I think the problem is lack of competition.

Naturally, all the juggling with class sizes in the world isn''t going to help if something else is buggered. My knowledge of the american school system is severely limited though, so I''ll keep my mouth shut about that.

Back to Alien Love Gardener question, no I don''t need links, but at least some hand waving about vague studies would be nice. Something about someone who compared some larger and smaller classes and what they discovered. From what I''ve heard, anything over ~8 doesn''t make a difference (the teacher doesn''t have time for anybody anyway).

I''d love to if I could, but it''s been quite a while since the last discussion about this over here. Anyways, even if there''s little time for the individual pupils over ~8 (something I kind of doubt, but then again I suppose it''d depend on the subject), there''s a bit of a difference between keeping order in a class of fifteen and one of fifty.

Here''s a radical concept: federal revenue sharing. Nixon did it way back when to help out ailing states. Why can''t Dubya do it?

Oh wait, all the broke states are ones that voted against him in 2000. Well, can''t go around rewarding disloyalty, now can we?

No way is my state of Georgia going to pay for California''s fiscal irresponsibility. Recall the bum and put someone else in charge.

California''s fiscal irresponsibility caused in good portion by power price gouging from Texas and other states. Albeit the leaderships role in handling the crisis compounded the problem.

I guess Georgia is going to completely isolate themselves and live off of peaches.

"Lawyeron" wrote:

Recall the bum and put someone else in charge.

For the 80,000th time: installing a Republican governor would solve nothing unless you recall 80% of the state legislature too. A Republican governor elected via the removal of the Democrat governor would result in the biggest lame-duck reign since Clinton''s final two years as president.