XBox - Halo 2 vs. Fable

Halo was (is) the marquis title for the XBox and has reached almost cult status. Some hail it as the best fps ever, comparing it to Half-Life. In the works for around 2 years, Halo 2 looks to take this game and expand it to awe-inspiring levels. Cutting-edge graphics, tight controls, great gameplay and amazing multiplayer matches all appear to be included in this title. It looks so good, I reserved my copy a year before arrival. (February 2004)

Fable, on the other hand, is a newcomer. Fable could be, as head Peter Molyneux (Black and White) says, "The greatest role-playing game of all time." You have total control over your character. I don't mean pick-your-attributes-and-we-will-give-you-a-class type control, I mean FULL control. There are no classes, no predefined characters. You will slowly change based on what you actually do in the game. The game breaks theses changes into four categories, or morphs : Physical, Morality, Class and Style. Say, for example, you use hand-to-hand combat or wield a really heavy sword. As the game progresses your character's muscles will start to bulge and he will become much more proficient with his weapon. Or, if you spend a lot of time in the Sun, your character will tan and his skin will age faster. If you go around slicing up people in villages, your character will be seen as a bad guy and be hated (Interesting note - if you slice a kid when he is young, and then return many years later, where you sliced him will scar over and be visible his whole life. Same with trees; carve your name in one and it will be there forever). The graphics so far look top-notch. Very Elder Scrolls styled environments, except much more lush and, for lack of a better word, alive. Oh, and did I mention that this game spans an entire lifetime? The possibilities are endless. (Winter 2003)

So, my question for all your XBox owners is : which game are you more looking forward to?

Since I played Halo I have been dreaming of Halo 2, but as Fable nears completion, I have really been impressed with its potential. This could really be the first true single-player RPG. Like Everquest, except cheaper, better looking, and much less laggy. My vote is going to have to go with Fable on this one.

Ah the glorious myth that is the usage based RPG system. The freedom to do what you want and you character will sophisticatedly mold itself to follow suit.

I''m sorry but the notion that someone can program my wishes is so far fetched, I''m surprised that few still cling to it as their lifes purpose. Everything is perfect for about 2 days of play. The longer you play the game the more you come into contact with others who chose differently than you. This is where the very basics of human nature come into play. Everyone places more value on valuable things that arent in their possesion. Everyone wants everything. So you will be perfectly happy with that bulging, half naked, brute wielding his massive 2 handed hammer until you stumble across that slim figure, dark figure flaying his oponents with deftness and speed with his ornate sabers in each hand. Maybe you saw a feeble old man fling a massive torrent of flame and then transform himself into a brutish Djynn wielding of all things, a 2 handed hammer.

These systems inherently fail because they are so misguided in thinking they are giving the player what they want or rewarding a player for doing things he likes. The fact of the matter is they fail miserably. What happens to the feeble old man who wants to wield a 2 handed hammer and wear a shiny pearl embedded robe that would tear if his muscles were to grow? What happens when the hulking brute wants to cast torrents of flame while wearing plate that can only be worn by the very strong?

Upon character creation, people choose an appearance that they want to keep and enhance. The programmer cant possibly envision the way the player views these enhancements.

Players want to play a plate wearing, fireball casting, healing, dual wielding, debuffing, invisible, 2 handed weapon specializing, shield bashing, ressurrecting, hand to hand expertising, thieving, archer mastering, diplomat.

Show me a usage system that can give you that. That is what the players want.

Halo 2 for me simply because I have a pretty good idea of what to expect. I feel pretty confident in saying Halo2 will be an awesome game.

Fable on the other hand, is a big question mark. If it lives up to what they are promising, I will probably end up liking it more than Halo 2, but that''s a big if.

They are two of my most anticipated Xbox games.

Has anyone actually played Fable so far? Almost all previews I''ve seen were based on information given by the developers. And those who apparantly got their hands on it, didn''t get to see a lot.

Oh, I''ve no doubt that I''ll pick up Fable, but I look at Molyneaux with the kind of skepticism I might have for a one armed surgeon. I can''t help but recall Black and White which was absolutely brilliant fun as long as you didn''t do something ridiculous like try to play the game.

Halo 2, on the other hand, comes with a terrific pedigree, and if they did nothing more than copy all the Halo 1 discs, add an Xbox Live component, and slap those into a Halo 2 box, then I''d still be pretty happy.

"Elysium" wrote:

Halo 2, on the other hand, comes with a terrific pedigree, and if they did nothing more than copy all the Halo 1 discs, add an Xbox Live component, and slap those into a Halo 2 box, then I''d still be pretty happy.

LOL...as much as it pains me, I''d have to agree there. If Halo 2 was the *exact* same as 1 plus multiplayer...I''d buy it.

I''m a FPS fan [see Planetside] so I''d have to lean in that direction. That said, I still play Morrowind and enjoy the hell out of it. I like Molyneaux, and perhaps the only person alive who really enjoyed Black & White (the ape taking a dump and being proud of it, still has me chuckling), so I plan on getting Fable as well.

See? Thats the beauty of this site: Gamers *with jobs*. I can afford both.

edit: By the way, does anyone have any good links to Fable info?

http://lionsource.ngz-network.de/fable/

for fable screenshots. The rest is german though, which is fine by me ;). The only other coherent source would be xbox.ign.com with their diaries etc.

I''ll pick up both no matter what :). I am an optimist and I think PM has learned from B&W a lot. And in the end B&W was not that bad, just the micromanagement of the villagers was really annoying (""villagers need food"" - ok my little cow, it''s dinner time :D).

...but I look at Molyneaux with the kind of skepticism I might have for a one armed surgeon. I can''t help but recall Black and White which was absolutely brilliant fun as long as you didn''t do something ridiculous like try to play the game.

Same here. A victim of the massive B&W hype machine. I''ve been in the dark about Fable until reading this thread. It sounds great... but I''ll just sit back and wait for the reviews on this one.

I''m guessing that Halo 2 will not wow people like Halo did. Halo got the ""launch"" bonous from dealing with a lot of games that weren''t very good. Sequels often do not wow more than the first.

I''m not interested in Fable. I don''t think the game is close to release. They haven''t shown any media with a lot on screen and going on. In Zelda they had videos of Link taking out multiple mobs.

Fang, I really wouln''t want the super-powerful god character you described. I like realism in my games, so Fable seems to be exactly what I''m looking for.

Just for the record, B&W was a great game!!

Halo 2 is on my list and I don''t care how long they have to delay it as long it is good as the first... or better!

Fable!... it''s looks extremely good, however I'm a bit skeptical on something that you would be able to do in the game... However, I''m ready to give it a try...

Plus God type character might be fun for a while, but it will grow old way to quickly and it will beat the whole purpose of this game!

I consider Peter Molyneaux to be one of the most overrated developers ever. He did the Populous games which I found to be incredibly boring, and then he did B&W which was just Populous with a tamigatchi game added to it. So based on that pedigree I have very low expectations for Fable, although I do hold out a tiny bit of hope that the game will kick ass.

I consider Peter Molyneaux to be one of the most overrated developers ever. He did the Populous games which I found to be incredibly boring, and then he did B&W which was just Populous with a tamigatchi game added to it. So based on that pedigree I have very low expectations for Fable, although I do hold out a tiny bit of hope that the game will kick ass.

There were quite a few games between Populous and B&W buddy.

Populous, Populous 2, Flood, Powermonger, Magic Carpet, Syndicate, Theme Park and Dungeon Keeper among others. If you''re going to call the guy over-rated at least know what he''s done first.

Personally, I found Black and White to be a fun 10 hours spent before I got bored with it. Not bad but not great either.

I actually liked Populous. Syndicate was one of the greatest games in its time. It had many elements that make the GTA games popular these days combined with the motivating research parts. I''ve also really enjoyed Magic Carpet 1&2, a nice action-strategy mix.

asands2, even if you dont want a god super character, I guarantee at some point you will want your cake and eat it too. I doubt the game will deliver.

It still doesnt address players wanting the unnatural and conflicting. The robe wearing Arnold with a 2 handed hammer and the heavy plate wearing feeble old man casting magic arent viable with realism.

Why would I want realism in my fantasy RPG. Its ok to have enough to ground the player but I think most people are intrigued when realism goes out the window. (floating islands, summoning earthquakes, ethereal beings, skyscraper castles, controlling undead, 4 story tall enemies)

Syndicate, best game I ever played on my color MAC II FX.

All I needed was the mind control enhancment and a gatling gun and my syndicates would make any town their bitch.

Populous, Populous 2, Flood, Powermonger, Magic Carpet, Syndicate, Theme Park and Dungeon Keeper among others

Well I did say Populous games. Further I would like to point out that according to this article:

http://www.gamespot.com/features/petermolyneux/page6.html

Molyneux did almost no work on Flood and only did the basic design of Syndicate (which is the best game in this list by far). I did think Magic carpet looked cool although I never got a chance to play it, on the other hand Dungeon Keeper bored the hell out of me. After reading the above gamespot article I do have a lot more respect for the guy. Still I tend to think Molyneux''s games focus a bit too much on clever ideas and not enough on fun.

Well, if anything, Molyneux is the King of The First Hour of Play.
The first hour you pop in the game, that''s when you will be amazed at all the stuff you can do. ""The cow, it does karate! Nyuk nyuk nyuk! The chimp goes Poo!"". But then, reality sets in. The game is not deep enough, not fun enough. Something is lacking.

I''ve felt the same way on all those games*. Great first few hours, but I''ve never bothered to finish one, due to either the game being repetitive, or just not compelling enough.

About Fable... Well, I think it''s good that at least he''s trying to deliver, and I''m hopeful that developers haven''t given up on that ""holy grail"" of RPGs.

""Players want to play a plate wearing, fireball casting, healing, dual wielding, debuffing, invisible, 2 handed weapon specializing, shield bashing, ressurrecting, hand to hand expertising, thieving, archer mastering, diplomat.""

Well... Didn''t Ultima Online give you that? of course, the ""diplomat"" aspect you had to learn yourself, mostly by speaking 1337.

Me, I just want a decent martial artist.

Edit: * Except Syndicate/Flood. Never played those

Still I tend to think Molyneux''s games focus a bit too much on clever ideas and not enough on fun.

When it comes to Black and White I agree but for the rest I truly felt most of them were loads of fun.

It might be more fair to say you don''t like that special brand of ""god game"" that he makes rather than him being over-rated.

Honestly I don''t know why I''m defending the guy, it''s just hard not when most of his games were so well made.

One other thing, Fable isn''t being developed by Molyneux''s main development team, it''s being made by Big Blue Box with Lionhead supporting them. I expect Molyneux is over-seeing the project and talking it up with the press but that''s about it.

Oh for a good remake of Syndicate with a good 3D engine!

anyone know if populous 3 works under XP? That had some fun multiplayer

anyone know if populous 3 works under XP? That had some fun multiplayer

Surprisingly enough it does, it was one of the first games I tested when I switched from 98 to XP. Don''t know about multiplayer as I was only playing the single player.

cool. *searches his Pop3 cd* Cya in some days