Everquest... discuss!

As many of you have noticed I occasionally like to take a Daily Elysium topic, and move it to the forums for discussion. Today is no exception. So the question is presented, is Everquest the intrinsically evil and unpleasant game that popular opinion describes it as, or is it simply an unnecessary forum whipping boy? Is this a game that is criticized on its failures of years before, or one that is judged on its current content? Is there honestly a better MMOG on the market?

If you''re fishing for justification for your your dirty little habit you won''t find any from me.

And yes, it is indeed Evil.

Well, my friends at work got back into it recently but I resisted the urge. One of my friends still plays 5 characters at once. He is excellent at multi-tasking at work I can assure you

I don''t know if I should post here or not, I don''t want to contract the EQ.

Seriously though, I know there is alot that is great about this game. I loved it in beta and the first few months. But the toll it takes on my time is too much to bear. I can get more fun out of other games in less time. Thats the whole story, the time it takes to have fun in this game compared to other games. It just doesn''t add up for me.

But if anybody tries to convert me, they get a punch in the damn face. I had a roommate who used to play it, actually dropped out of college because of it (there were other reasons too, but EQ was his excuse, which I find rather typical among addicted EQ players). He would bug the hell out of me, acting like I hated him if I didn''t want to sit down and play EQ with him all the time. So now people who try to convert me piss me off.

Yes, If you go back you have to go of your own will. There really is nothing worse than being dragged in to a guild that makes demands of you. Sure they all shower you with gifts and promises. For many there is a price. A price quite often you dont realize you are willingfully paying until things in the real world start to slip.

Is progress so slow and hard in EQ that we need to brag, encourage and complement each other when its accomplished?

To lend credence to Elysiums statements regarding the change in EQ, I must say that the bazaar is the first place I''d go to witness this change. Not only will you be amazed at the bevy of high end equiptment 100% out of your reach, you will see very affordable gear with high ac, weapons with excellent damage/delay ratios, and both with significant stat increases. 20pp for a 20 AC chest with stats that can be worn by all plate classes and any race anyone? 6/18 piercing weapons for 10pp? 12 AC boots with str for all chain wearers and up for 15pp? 7/18 with str and hp slashing weapon for 25pp? Struggle to get your first 100 pp and power level yourself.

Despite Diablo 2 having a random item generator, I think EQ has finally topped it as far as number of items. Look, technically I know thats impossible but it will give you a good idea of the depth and breadth of equiptment available.

Its still the same game but with some rose tinted glasses on the change is dramatic.

Ulairi please no need to post about the level treadmill. We know! It hasnt changed. There are some bells and whistles in the form of newbie quests but its still as mwthodical and plodding as ever. Stating those words only makes you sound like a broken record. Unless you need those words to reaffirm your strength to not play. In that case I completely understand and go right ahead.

Elysium, I do wish to still remain anonymous. These guys would have my head if they found out I''m off the wagon. The frogs are really cool BTW.

Intrinsically evil? No, I don''t think so. EQ had the same effect on me DOOM had back in the day, first time I fired it up and logged in (initial release). I was just floored. Couldn''t stop playing it for months. Quit, came back two more times over a 2 1/2 year period. Switched servers, played in a few guilds, did some big raids, ran some big raids..blah blah. It succeeded for me on some level past basic rule mechanics, something that had more to do with immersiveness than anything else.

Everquest is, however, intrinsically broken. The problem for me was how you are punished the longer you play it. I honestly felt, every time, like I was intentionally put in impossible, competitive, depressing situations as a means of making the game harder. Of course a game needs to make advancement harder to remain ''challenging'' and ''interesting'', but what it doesn''t need to do is literally treat me like an irrelevant statistic if I can''t turn a ''game'' into a ''lifestyle''.

""Congratultions, you are now level 50. Prepare to spend the next year of your EQ experience waiting in line to kill things that spawn ONCE per server reset, that 1000+ other people will also want to kill, that may not drop the doohicky you need at all. Prepare to lose those precious levels, then spend hours grinding away to get them back, so you can lose them again. Oh, yes- because ''high end play'' in our world is ''challenging'', we sincerely hope you chose to play the (insert fighter/cleric/caster) type of character, because the rest are essentially worthless now.""

Jeebus, it still amazes me how bitter I feel about EQ. I sank 2 1/2 years of my life into it, and came away feeling cheated, screwed over, and let down. They got something 100% right with it, and yet, completely, utterly screw it up at some point I can''t clearly articulate no matter how hard I try.

Still waiting for that little kid to yell out in the crowd: ""But he''s not wearing any clothes."" (The Emperor''s New Clothes, for those that missed it)

Or the dumb kid telling Tom Sawyer, ""You know what? Painting this fence isn''t fun, it sucks!""

Besides the fact (and I tread carefully here) that many people are taking that game wayyy to seriously, its simply the same thing over and over and over again. How could it possibly be fun? Am I supposed to take sh*t from some little dweeb with more hours logged in then I spend in bed? Seriously, is there anything more depressing then being made fun of by people who have so little life to them, that they find themselves superior to others b/c their pixels are shinny??

Whats the goal, anyway? To be better then everyone else? Where does it end?? When they log off do they sit there in the dark for awhile and smile at their own cleverness?

For what its worth, I''m sure there are many people who play a few hours here and there, discover some new stuff, and feel like their time was well spent. Bully for them. But most of what I have learned come from those who''s very life essence seems to stem from the fact that Yhzraths''s 24 (insert silly object here) doesn''t produce the same mind numbingly effect of Yqwerthnadnds''s doo-hicky.

I hate talking about this game, b/c it always makes me seem like a bitter old man who''s lost touch with what the younger kids are doing. But I fear for them, and our generation.

For what its worth, I''m sure there are many people who play a few hours here and there, discover some new stuff, and feel like their time was well spent.

I think that''s the only reasonable way to approach this game. It''s what I''ve been doing, and it''s probably the only reason I''m having fun. One thing I know about me, is that the moment I''m not having fun is when I stop playing.

I hear and understand what you fellas are saying. Nonetheless, I still think it''s clear that EQ ultimately fails for most people. Saying that ''it''s enjoyable if played xxxx way'' is fine, but doesn''t that sidestep the point?

Then again...perhaps EQ is fine, and it''s the bitter burnouts like myself that ruin it with excessive bias. I guess that''s the thing really; I''m just too damn biased for any logical discussion.

No, EQ is not fine. As I said before, the age of the game has caused some very positive side effects. Its amazing the extent of these side effects has gone. Yet you still need rose tinted glasses and a good friend to enjoy yourself. It is amazing what the implementation of one spell (KEI) can do.

KEI is an anacronym for a high level group clarity spell. Clarity is a mana replenishment over time spell that decreases downtime. This version of clarity, effects the whole group and lasts for a minimum of 2 and a half hours. Most characters in EQ regen mana at 1 mana per every 6 seconds. KEI increases it a further 14 mana every 6 seconds. Healing spells up to level 19 cost at most 20 mana and take around 3-4 seconds to refresh. So if we do some simple math 40 seconds worth of heals = 200 mana which is about how much my low level shammy has. However, in that 40 seconds, by regening 15 mana every 6 seconds, I gain back 90 mana. So after 40 seconds of continuous healing, I am just below half mana. If we go another 6 ticks = 36 seconds, I would drain 180 mana but ive already got 90 mana left over and i would regen a furhter 90 mana in that time. So in order to every completely run out of mana at this given level, I would have to chain heal myself or my partner for 1 minute and 16 seconds. Did I mention KEI lasts for a minimum of 2 and a half hours and quite often you can get a 4 hour version?

Tell me that doesnt change the scope of the low end game? If you''ve played any EQ at all, you know the healers life is: cast a few heals to get the tank back up to 80%-100% full, then meditate by sitting down for about a minute to regain mana lost. If your good, the meditation only takes a little longer as it takes the warrior to fight the monster. Now with KEI, you can both fight the monster, cast some offensive spells and a heal 2 tanks, fighting seperate monsters. You wont lose much mana and never meditate.

hear and understand what you fellas are saying. Nonetheless, I still think it''s clear that EQ ultimately fails for most people. Saying that ''it''s enjoyable if played xxxx way'' is fine, but doesn''t that sidestep the point?

Yes, that does sidestep the point. You are far from alone on this, Gorey. My friends all got me into EQ and I probably had an experience similar to yours. I played for a little over a year, and logged in some 3,400 hours. That''s 8 hours a day for an entire year, average.

I built up my main character from literally nothing in the East Commons to one of the most high-profile Shamans on the entire server, in the second-most powerful guild. I won''t lie, I honestly enjoyed the game for quite some time, until about level 50, I''d say. Then it turned into the dreadful leveling treadmill everyone talks about. At some point I was just playing to achieve, which is messed up. There''s enough of that in real life.

I participated in raids, got level 60, then led some raids, etc, etc. I got my epic, a lot of good armor, and the whole bit, but I still wasn''t satisfied. With each expansion it was bigger, faster, better, more, and it felt like I was on some impossible quest. Perfection in EQ is unattainable, as in real life, because it keeps changing; my friends that still play tell me it''s not even the same game anymore, and not in a good way.

Good riddens to bad rubbish, I suppose. I don''t regret my experience, but I will in no means repeat it.