Contentious Topics 101

I didn''t like Clinton, either. Most likely, he should have been impeached, but don''t qoute me on it.

Sorry to quote you on it...but Clinton was impeached on Dec. 19, 1998. (Sorry!)

I''m with Kriegshund on the idea that forcing children to swear an oath is a bit creepy. Brainwashing isn''t the way I''d want to gain followers. On the other hand, I grew up mindlessly reciting the whole thing (""under God"" and all) and managed to emerge as a thinking, reasoning adult. I''m still capable of choosing what to believe - I think...

Can I sit the fence, or what?

Welcome to the forums Elysia, I can see by your tag you figured out the secret to quick advancement in the in company

Sleeping your way to the top - it''s the only way to go!

"Elysia" wrote:

Sleeping your way to the top - it''s the only way to go!
:wink:

Damn! My secret is out.

I want a custom title damnit.
How about ""Smart Ass College Punk""?

"Elysia" wrote:
I didn''t like Clinton, either. Most likely, he should have been impeached, but don''t qoute me on it.

Sorry to quote you on it...but Clinton was impeached on Dec. 19, 1998. (Sorry!)

I''m with Kriegshund on the idea that forcing children to swear an oath is a bit creepy. Brainwashing isn''t the way I''d want to gain followers. On the other hand, I grew up mindlessly reciting the whole thing (""under God"" and all) and managed to emerge as a thinking, reasoning adult. I''m still capable of choosing what to believe - I think...

Can I sit the fence, or what?

We brainwash children all the time. That''s why we have public education!

"Ulairi" wrote:

We brainwash children all the time. That''s why we have public education! :lol:

Well actually the way I heard from my teacher back in high school, Public schools were designed to be slave preparation machine where they would produce a non-thinking worker/consumer...!

I didn''t like Clinton, either. Most likely, he should have been impeached, but don''t qoute me on it.

Sorry to quote you on it...but Clinton was impeached on Dec. 19, 1998. (Sorry!)

Bah!
Ok, I shoulda been more specific. Instead of ''impeached'' I should have stated ''hogtied, tarred, and feathered...then run out of town on a rail''. That was more in line with what I was thinking :P.

"Nei" wrote:
"Ulairi" wrote:

We brainwash children all the time. That''s why we have public education! :lol:

Well actually the way I heard from my teacher back in high school, Public schools were designed to be slave preparation machine where they would produce a non-thinking worker/consumer...! :wink:

Yup. It gets worse in college where teachers turn us into socialist/marxist.

Yup. It gets worse in college where teachers turn us into socialist/marxist.

Actually, my teachers tend to be staunch liberals.

"scoli" wrote:
Yup. It gets worse in college where teachers turn us into socialist/marxist.

Actually, my teachers tend to be staunch liberals.

Most of mine are leftists.

Most of mine made me glad I graduated before all this insanity started. Not that I would''ve minded a day off if all my professors decided to go protest.

...the entire process of socializing children is, in effect, brainwashing. People aren''t born knowing that it''s wrong to smash other children in the face if you want their ice cream, we teach them that. Various behaviours are beneficial to the survival of our species, so they have become what we teach our kids. Cooperation. Restraint. Paying homage to symbols of our group bonds. None of it is instinctual.

No longer quite sure what my point is...

Other than I think that few kids ever thought about what it was they were saying. I know when we were singing ""God Save the Queen"" in grade school, I never felt an upswell of Christian faith burgeoning in my heart. Or any particular good wished toward the Queen, for that matter. As a tool for brainwashing, making kids mindlessly repeat a set of syllables they all too often don''t even seperate into words is pretty pathetic.

Well, hoochie, I actually agree with you, but it treads dangerously close to the nature vs. nurture debate. If I may indulge in some Psychology 1001 for a moment, there''s no clear indication that social construction is entirely learned behavior. Generally humanity has organized society into the way it has for individual self preservation, and children aren''t so much instructed to participate in the conventions of society, as they are aware that it is the path of least resistance. Humans, as a rule, seek the least path of cognitive and physical resistance, which is the primary reason people tend to be sheep.

I think language is a good example. While we do instruct children in a particular phonetic style, dependent obviously on culture, the development of _a language_ is instinctual. Possibly it is genetic brainwashing, like the over riding need to propagate, or to seek a mate, but it isn''t so much instructed. Ultimately, the only thing organized by society, or brainwashed if you will, is the form that phonetic development will take.

I''m not sure if I''m agreeing or disagreeing with your general sentiment here. Mostly I''m just talking.

I guess my point is that recitation isn''t by itself a form of brainwashing. At least not an effective form, because it doesn''t close the cognitive channel. One can, here at least, say the pledge and then promptly talk to their friend about what a load of crap the pledge might be. Without the constraints of cognitive isolation, there''s not much brainwashing. Religion is a trickier subject, because for devout families the formitive years have only one input (the parents) to construct perception. It''s much closer to brainwashing in that fashion, for those who dare see it that way.

There are marshmallows in my cereal!

There are marshmallows in my cereal!

What sort of cereal, is it supposed to have marshmallows in it and......what does that have to do with the Pledge of Allegiance?

ps. can I have some of the drugs Sway''s on?

"Sway" wrote:

There are marshmallows in my cereal!

Dude! 8)

Sorry. I forgot I was posting in Contentious Topics 101. Elysium made a good point about humans taking the path of least cognitive resistance. I was just proving his point by not trying to follow up his post with anything that required cognition. I was worried that Elysium would stagnate another perfectly good discussion by elevating the content beyond the ken of all but the most erudite gamers.

My personal view of the Pledge has little do with an army of kids chanting it every morning like the chorus in a play by Sophocles. I was one of them as a youth and I turned out all right. Right? If my hypothetical child does not have the right to say ""under God"" when reciting the Pledge of Allegience, then I want some guarantee that he or she will not be subjected to the constant use of ""OH MY GOD!"" and ""God!"" that I usually hear them shouting into their Nextels. I realize there''s a small difference, but I''m only being pseudo-facetious.

I like Sway''s response....and his comics.