GWJ Conference Call Episode 399

Conference Call

Watch_Dogs, WildStar, Elite: Dangerous, Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations, Wolfenstein: The New Order, Walking Dead S2E3, Wolf Among Us Ep. 4,

This week Cory, Sean, Allen and Jonathan talk about PC remakes, reboots and re-releases.

To contact us, email [email protected]! Send us your thoughts on the show, pressing issues you want to talk about or whatever else is on your mind. You can even send a 30 second audio question or comment (MP3 format please) if you're so inclined.

Chairman_Mao's Timestamps
00.02.39 Watch_Dogs
00.11.28 WAlking Dead Season 2 Episode 3 and Wolf Among Us Episode 4
00.20.42 Wolfenstein: The New Order
00.27.22 EU4 Wealth of Nations DLC
00.29.46 Wild Star
00.36.11 Elite Dangerous
00.41.48 This week's topic: Remakes!
01.06.17 Your emails!

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Show credits

Music credits: 

Intro/Outtro Music - Ian Dorsch, Willowtree Audioworks

Young Man’s Game - Echoside - http://echosidetracks.bandcamp.com/a... - 41:18

Unique - Echoside - http://echosidetracks.bandcamp.com/a... - 1:05:49

Comments

Great show again guys, (even though you spoke for quite a few minutes about not playing Watch dogs!)
I get a nostalgia itch every couple of months. This will end up with me installing either an Amstrad or Amiga emulator, or having a quick blast on MAME. It is usually a quick blast, unless it's a game like 1942, Kung Fu Master, Golden Axe or Wardner on MAME which will easily suck up a few hours of my life.
A couple of classics you mentioned that I'd love to play again - Tie Fighter FTW !!
What classic game would be your number one choice to be able play again ?
I'd love Burnout Takedown (III) to get a re-release. I easily had 400+ hours on that bad boy.

The game that I first played more than 10 years after its release and enjoyed was Alpha Centauri. Besides being a good TBS game, the reason it holds up so well for me is because the futuristic technologies that you research are very interesting and suprisingly accurate and/or feasible in their descriptions when looking at it 10-15 years later.

Excellent show. I actually just got Icewind Dale, which I didn't play at the time it came out for some reason (despite owning and loving every other D&D based cRPG out there.) I've barely scratched the surface, but I'm enjoying it a great deal. I can see the wears and tears of time a bit (how on earth did I ever spend so long clicking "reroll" as I did when I was a teenager?)

Most of my gaming life these days happens in Wasteland 2. As I said over on the official thread, it is interesting because it doesn't feel like it is trying to capitilize on nostalgia to drive the experience. It feels much more like it was plucked from an alternate universe where that type of game never went away and instead continued to be popular and evolve. I think it would have been easy for InXile to put together an okay game which coasted on nostalgia, but instead we're getting a great game which will happen to hit nostalgia buttons for some people.

Hmm, maybe not quite as big a time leap as some of the ones described, but I didn't play Suikoden until.. maybe 2002? About 7 years after its release, and I really enjoyed it, though Suikoden 2 is the much better game.

For WildStar a bunch of us are also playing on the Avatus server (Dominion). No queues

As far as HD remakes go, if Persona 4: Golden counts, that's really the high water mark, as far as I'm concerned. Additional content, new dungeons, new characters, and gorgeously done, while keeping the core of the gameplay identical.

Jobbers!!! Fire the guy immediately - the none regular - the one who shaved a little too much hair away - the one who said sleeping dogs looks better than watch_dogs!
Oh my god! He keeps talking... noooo. He even says the story of Far Cry 3 is good?!?!? Far Cry 3 had a very bad and forgetful story and the ending was an abomination..... and even though AC4 was good the story was a bit weak....

I miss the days when the regular Jobbers-Podcasters played the AAA-Games themselves... seriously there really aren't many big games released since weeks so that should have been at least on the radar for them...

They are not even in Amsterdam smoking pot...

I kid, I kid...

PS: BTW Play Watch_Dogs on PS4 - best experience!

I went through a period where i picked up a lot of retro games that became an unplayed pile in a filing cabinet. Some of it was wanting to relive my teenage years ; some of it was having the disposable income to own the games I could only rent as a kid.

I just picked up Windwaker HD free with MK 8 and have a completely new reason to play an HD remake. I'm playing through the game again with my 4 year old son. He's getting good enough at reading to get some of the dialog text and I'm letting him make some of the decisions on where we go. I also get him to talk about plot points after we play ( which for a kid who had a communication delay and didn't speak until he was two is a very good thing ).

Blammo72 wrote:

Jobbers!!! Fire the guy immediately - the none regular - the one who shaved a little too much hair away - the one who said sleeping dogs looks better than watch_dogs!
Oh my god! He keeps talking... noooo. He even says the story of Far Cry 3 is good?!?!? Far Cry 3 had a very bad and forgetful story and the ending was an abomination..... and even though AC4 was good the story was a bit weak....

I miss the days when the regular Jobbers-Podcasters played the AAA-Games themselves... seriously there really aren't many big games released since weeks so that should have been at least on the radar for them...

They are not even in Amsterdam smoking pot...

I kid, I kid...

PS: BTW Play Watch_Dogs on PS4 - best experience!

This is adorable on so many levels:

-That you think someone would be "fired" when we're not a for-profit website of any kind
-That, even if we could, we'd ever "fire" our producer (do you not want a podcast?)
-That someone having a different opinion than you on a game is just flat-out wrong
-That the podcast regulars don't play AAA games (Wolfenstein isn't AAA?)
-That AAA games are still the most important games (there are a LOT of games, don't just wait for whatever AAA means)
-That we're even called Jobbers (it's Goodjers, because that sounds way more gross)

Seriously. Adorable.

Welcome to GamersWithJobs.com, where the rules are made up and the points don't matter.

Demiurge wrote:

This is adorable on so many levels:

-That you think someone would be "fired" when we're not a for-profit website of any kind
-That, even if we could, we'd ever "fire" our producer (do you not want a podcast?)
-That someone having a different opinion than you on a game is just flat-out wrong
-That the podcast regulars don't play AAA games (Wolfenstein isn't AAA?)
-That AAA games are still the most important games (there are a LOT of games, don't just wait for whatever AAA means)
-That we're even called Jobbers (it's Goodjers, because that sounds way more gross)

Seriously. Adorable.

Welcome to GamersWithJobs.com, where the rules are made up and the points don't matter.

IMAGE(http://www.thedailycrate.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/points.gif)

Also I'm just going to put this out there: If you actually type Watch Dogs with the underscore, you're letting the marketing people win. Fight the underscore. The underscore is the enemy of the interrobang and they are locked in an eternal battle for your soul.

The underscore was also officially removed from the game's title, so you're not only letting the marketing people win, you're being wrong while you do it.

Hey. Hey. Love each other.

>>First of all

First of all: I clearly wrote "I kid, I kid" under my post. Unfortunately that didn't seem to reach you. I am sorry you got so worked up about it.

>>-That you think someone would be "fired" when we're not a for-profit website of any kind

The Podcast is called "Gamers with Jobs" if I am not mistaken. So using a cartoonish work-related tone of words seemed quite appropriate. I admit maybe it wasn't as funny as I thought but you took it way too serious! Makes me wonder why? Why did you get so worked up about it?

"not for-profit" Website ... well a profit might be getting into the Elite Dangerous Beta without paying a grotesque amount of money?

>>-That, even if we could, we'd ever "fire" our producer (do you not want a podcast?)

Again: I wrote "fired" in a cartoonish work-related tone. Why did you take it soo serious? What is really going on here?
BTW didn't know it was your producer! Listen to your podcast since years now and didn't realize that.

>>-That someone having a different opinion than you on a game is just flat-out wrong

I don't take his opinion as flat out wrong but I certainly don't agree. The comparison to Sleeping Dogs was just ignorant.

On the other hand you clearly are not taking comfort in my opinion aswell. So look who's talking LOL Why else would you write the adorable response with all those hyphens.

>>-That the podcast regulars don't play AAA games (Wolfenstein isn't AAA?)

That is not really an excuse - Watch_Dogs clearly is the more interesting one of both!

>>-That AAA games are still the most important games (there are a LOT of games, don't just wait for whatever AAA means)

Currently there is a pretty big gaming-drought in terms of AAA games going on at the moment. So caring a bit more about Watch_Dogs shouldn't be too much to ask.
Besides this AAA_game I for myself also am playing the early access of "The Forest" - which certainly is an indie game so please do not push that "snobbish" AAA games versus Indie games card on me.

>>-That we're even called Jobbers (it's Goodjers, because that sounds way more gross)

I_stand_corrected_!

I am sorry if I offended you. But I still am curious to what triggered you to the "adorable" response. Maybe you don't dig criticism (even cartoonish one) and only cherish flatterers like Tanglebones.

Again: Sorry and peace!!

PS: Just downloaded the Star_Citizen Dogfighting_Module. But now all I see is "Please_Wait"! Is this a server issue? Anyone else got to play it yet?

Blammo72 wrote:

I am sorry if I offended you. But I still am curious to what triggered you to the "adorable" response. Maybe you don't dig criticism (even cartoonish one) and only cherish flatterers like Tanglebones.

You didn't offend me personally. I got defensive on behalf of Jonathan, which is something I honestly shouldn't do.

I'm sensitive, especially now that I work where I work, to third-party criticism. I don't mind when people say *I'm* stupid—believe that Tanglebones is anything but a flatterer—but when I perceive an attack on someone else, I get uppity. Instead, I should just let others have their opinion and move on.

So, I'm sorry. Post as you will, and thanks for listening to the show.

Again sorry to you all! - I am a pretty big fan of the show!!!

"I'm sensitive, especially now that I work where I work, to third-party criticism."

I understand that actually very well!!!

Aww, shucks. Flattering Demiurge just comes so easily. Also, the points gif was in reference to his 'the points don't matter' comment. If you stick around the forums for a while, you'll notice that I like responding with images instead of text.

Tanglebones wrote:

Aww, shucks. Flattering Demiurge just comes so easily. Also, the points gif was in reference to his 'the points don't matter' comment. If you stick around the forums for a while, you'll notice that I like responding with images instead of text.

IMAGE(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_le6b8478IR1qzjepc.gif)

You know why I play old games that I've enjoyed in the past? Because I don't have to relearn how to play. I don't have to decypher some new, archaic twist on a new and more esoteric tech tree. I don't have to load up some 12 year old's wiki to learn how to manage my armor load-out to maximize DPS. I can just play and have all the funs.

Isn't that the point, to have fun? If it's snuffing out the darn Mekons in MooII or enjoying the newest fps in the CryEngine if I'm having fun then it's all good.

I think this is the same motivations that leads people to pre-order the latest title in their favorite series. "I get new stuff and can use old knowledge? Sign me up, here's my money."

Cheers,
Carl

As someone playing TIE Fighter through again right now, I'd too love to make that my full time job.

And yeah, Clive Owen, Privateer 2 had a great cast, shame about the sh*t gameplay.

Oh gosh, nostalgia buys? Don't get me started about nostalgia buys.

Too late.

God Hand (everybody drink! I mentioned God Hand again!) is a game that I bought on the ps2 and played about four times. When I saw it come out as a downloadable title for the PS3 I nearly fell to my death scrambling to get my wallet. (Finding out it wouldn't work on a PS4 frosted my cupcakes, let me tell you.). Nothing after it has really scratched that same itch, and I've tried a LOT of beat-em-ups (I thought for sure Anarchy Reigns would grab that tough-as-nails-with-a-quirky-sense-of-humor nerve and tweak it, but it just wasn't as good or as fun.

Then there's Crazy Taxi, a game I have bought on no fewer than four systems trying to match the greatness of the Dreamcast release. The closest was, believe it or not, on the PSP. I almost got it for the PC but the original soundtrack wasn't included. I suppose I could back it in, but I'm lazy.

Oh and let's not forget Duke Nukem 3D, a game I have owned on every platform it's been released on that I've ever owned (In order of me playing it, Mac, Nintendo 64, Game Boy Advance, and PC).

And it's not like I've re-bought these games on new platforms then never played them . I recently completed DN3D on the PC, which is the last platform I've owned it on. And I played crazy taxi on the PSP until my fingers went numb.

For me rebuying older games is mainly a function of me loving a game so much that I can't find a suitable successor. It's not that I'm trying to recapture my lost youth, it's that these games are literally the most fun games I've ever played and I want to be able to continue playing them.

PC gaming has been a huge boon for me. I've been able to mostly future proof some of my library: games like Evil Genius and Escape Velocity Nova (you Mac users might remember Ambrosia Software, which is still around) still work on my new system and hopefully will continue to work for years to come.

So long as remakes aren't all we're getting, I say bring 'em on.

What, no Mario Kart 8 discussion? Luigi will be paying you all a "friendly" visit this week. You’ve been warned

Ooof, Cory had to review one of the weaker FF games? I’m not terribly surprised you had issues with the Quick Save feature. That was always a temperamental thing they did with their remakes of older FF games on the PS1. But your discussion/rant hit on a good reason why many JRPG franchises have moved to portable systems in the last decade. The built-in suspend function in modern portable systems is indispensable for the genre as it allows you to play in small bursts without needing to rely on having enough time to play until the next save point (which often weren’t conveniently placed in older titles).


And Jeff Vogel agrees with Sean
!

By the way, I love playing older games even though a lot of them are definitely not as good as we remember. There’s a very different design sensibility compared to a lot of today’s blockbusters which is great to experience again. Also, people still read (and re-read) Dune and Lord of the Rings to this day, why would video games be any different?

MeatMan wrote:

The game that I first played more than 10 years after its release and enjoyed was Alpha Centauri.

My most recent one was the original Deus Ex although I cheated a little by modding it out with Shifter and New Vision. But I still had a good time!

(I also enjoyed playing the original 1984 release of King's Quest for the first time last year but I think that's probably not for the faint of heart)

Demiurge wrote:

Also I'm just going to put this out there: If you actually type Watch Dogs with the underscore, you're letting the marketing people win. Fight the underscore.

But what about those of us who go out of their way to put the underscore in because it looks ridiculous that way?

I have purchased Fallout 1 no fewer than five times. Two of those were digitally, so now I never have to worry about losing my disk again. Not that I ever did. I got rid of multiple copies after I got my digital copies.

I don't even know. I'm just a Fallout junkie.

I don't actually like new content being added to games when they're remastered. This is strange, but I feel like many of the games I loved are intricate balancing acts, and the addition of content more often ruins the package than helps it. Chrono Trigger is probably the top offender for this, but the weird eidolon mini games in Final Fantasy 4 are right up there. Graphics updates I don't mind, but if I'm buying a copy of a ten or twenty year old game it's explicitly because I want to play the game I remember. Changing it robs me of that experience. Fortunately, there aren't many games of that age that I would purchase multiple times. And I still have a functional SNES, so that helps too.

I don't know that I've ever seriously played anything ten years after it came out for the first time. I may have picked up a couple things on GoG that fit the bill, but I'm sure I never put more than an hour or two into them.

"A game over ten years old never played before"
I recently picked up Megaman Zero Collection and while that is for the DS, the first Zero was 2002.
It's awesome so far.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

The underscore was also officially removed from the game's title, so you're not only letting the marketing people win, you're being wrong while you do it.

Episode 399 - June 4th, 2014
Watch_Dogs, WildStar, Elite: Dangerous, Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations, Wolfenstein: The New Order, Walking Dead S2E3, Wolf Among Us Ep. 4,

LOL

Veloxi wrote:

As someone playing TIE Fighter through again right now, I'd too love to make that my full time job.

And yeah, Clive Owen, Privateer 2 had a great cast, shame about the sh*t gameplay.

Minor Privateer 2 spoiler... (Not sure I need to use spoiler tags considering the age of the game, but what the heck.)

Spoiler:

If Clive Owen is going to calmly WALK out of an exploding ship like a badass, I can forgive the gameplay :).

Episode 399 - June 4th, 2014
Watch_Dogs, WildStar, Elite: Dangerous, Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations, Wolfenstein: The New Order, Walking Dead S2E3, Wolf Among Us Ep. 4,

LOL

To be fair, I'm pretty commonly recognized as a marketing slut and being wrong.

There was a lot of discussion of playing nostalgic old games from the time vs. money perspective. I wanted to bring something to the forefront of the discussion: The experience of playing the games, nostalgic or not. I've had singular experiences with all types of games. So my purchasing / playing decisions are often driven by the perceived experience, not necessarily with regards to money or time.

Journey. Passage. Braid. Assassin's Creed I. LoZ: OoT. Descent. FF6. Zork. EAMON. Each enlightening to me in some small way and made me who I am today.

Regarding money, patience can lessen the impact. I got Beyond Good and Evil HD on 360 when it was on a weekly sale for less than $5. $20 for a game I've already bought and beaten on the 'cube is too much, but $5 to show my daughter an enhanced version of an excellent game with a strong female protagonist without having to drag out the old system and find the disc? Priceless.

But if you want to save money you have to be willing to wait (and it doesn't hurt to add a good deal-tracking system like isthereanydeal.com or cheapassgamer.com to your toolbox!)

Regarding time, I agree about the false-dichotomy of old vs. new. I think the most wasteful thing is playing a game because you feel "obligated" to finish it. Go to something new and don't feel guilty for not finishing!

The poster who mentioned Persona 3 Golden touched on something: There is a cultural divide between the East and West regarding nostalgia.

In Japan, there are store-warehouses that have overflowing shelves of Famicom(NES) and PC-Engine(TG-16) games that can be bought for a song and traded in for 30-40% of the value, encouraging more purchases. Part museum, part library, part rental store, streamlined by retail, these shops ensure that gaming's past is a cultural touchstone that is remembered and appreciated. Only a few such gaming meccas exist in the US and are mom-and-pop shops... or literal museums.

In the West, the fixation on "new is better" and the ruthless pursuit of profit makes a more cynical use of nostalgia, as was pointed out in the show. It's not a coincidence that it's often the strategy games that get a remake, as the audience for those games have a deeper appreciation for history and their gameplay trumped graphics even when they were released.

Japanese game remakes (for the most part) happen from a genuine fondness of the game from fans and developers, a desire to improve, to not let the story end... and probably make a few bucks on the way (i.e. Square's bad PC port of FFIII is the exception, _not_ the rule).

Honestly, I wish games didn't have a prominent copyright date on them. Is it so important to know Mario Galaxy was made in 2008? It's still a fantastic platformer today. The dates just remind me how old I am and how long I've been doing this, but in my mind, The games I play and want to play exist in a timeless, eternal summer.

Demiurge wrote:

Also I'm just going to put this out there: If you actually type Watch Dogs with the underscore, you're letting the marketing people win. Fight the underscore. The underscore is the enemy of the interrobang and they are locked in an eternal battle for your soul.

Is the underscore the next battlefront in the war of CamelCaseTitles?

Again: I wrote "fired" in a cartoonish work-related tone. Why did you take it soo serious? What is really going on here?

"Fired" is actually the official term we use when someone has their GWJ account banned.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
Tanglebones wrote:

Aww, shucks. Flattering Demiurge just comes so easily. Also, the points gif was in reference to his 'the points don't matter' comment. If you stick around the forums for a while, you'll notice that I like responding with images instead of text.

IMAGE(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_le6b8478IR1qzjepc.gif)

IMAGE(http://31.media.tumblr.com/481e1a265f83b7f0b6cc4472c5e7a44d/tumblr_mojjosOcfh1rzxydto1_500.gif)

wordsmythe wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

IMAGE(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_le6b8478IR1qzjepc.gif)

IMAGE(http://31.media.tumblr.com/481e1a265f83b7f0b6cc4472c5e7a44d/tumblr_mojjosOcfh1rzxydto1_500.gif)

IMAGE(http://replygif.net/i/416.gif)