Conference Call

GWJ Conference Call Episode 374

Unity of Command Black Turn, World of Warplanes, Risk of Rain, Assassin's Creed 4: Black Flag, The Entertainer, Last Gen Nostalgia, Your Emails and More!

This week Cory Banks snatches the hosting chair! Julian, Rob Zacny and Allen Cook join him to wax nostalgic about the last generation of consoles and more!

To contact us, email [email protected]! Send us your thoughts on the show, pressing issues you want to talk about or whatever else is on your mind. You can even send a 30 second audio question or comment (MP3 format please) if you're so inclined.

Chairman_Mao's Timestamps
00.01.55 Unity of Command: Black Turn
00.06.54 World of Warplanes
00.20.03 Risk of Rain
00.24.07 Assassin's Creed IV
00.36.14 The Entertainment
00.38.53 Eurotruck Simulator
00.42.54 Metro: Last Light
00.46.09 This week's topic: Last Gen Nostalgia!
01.10.56 Your emails!

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Show credits

Music credits: 

Have No Tyrant - SGX - http://sgxmusic.com/ - 45:37

Coactive (Over My Shoulder Mix) - SGX - http://sgxmusic.com/ - 1:10:23

Intro/Outtro Music - Ian Dorsch, Willowtree Audioworks

Comments

Artistically and technically, the PS360 did more to hamper and cripple game design than any other.

What started out as DLC as costumes and skins turned into games designed specifically to have content taken out and resold as DLC or specific retailer pre-order bonuses.

Game design went from designing a product to sell to designing half a product and a bunch of in-game advertisements for DLC (ala Dragon Age Origins or Dead Space 3).

We've seen the collapse of the middle tier market, which didn't always produce the most technically proficient content, but some of the most interesting. (Where was my Mr. Mosquito of the PS3 generation?) In contrast, we've seen a dumbing down of games into a kind of "blockbuster" akin to summer movies.

We've seen a push for digital distribution, not as a boon for game developers or consumers, but to kill the used games market.

We've seen the crippling of consoles. What happened to backwards compatibility?

Other than crummy licensed games, this gen has introduced every single problem that's wrong with modern gaming.

I'm a little surprised you guys didn't mention the Wii, since you talked about motion gaming.

And you didn't mention the PSP or handhelds. Again.

Metatron wrote:

We've seen the crippling of consoles. What happened to backwards compatibility?

Nintendo says "we've got that!", and Microsoft/Sony reply "these record breaking 1st month sales say 'who cares?'"

And you didn't mention the PSP or handhelds. Again.

I believe that's because the topic at hand was the previous console generation. Not the previous handheld generation.

The previous handheld generation also doesn't sync up well, considering the 3DS is a couple to a few years old now and the Vita is close behind.

shoptroll wrote:
Metatron wrote:

We've seen the crippling of consoles. What happened to backwards compatibility?

Nintendo says "we've got that!", and Microsoft/Sony reply "these record breaking 1st month sales say 'who cares?'"

And you didn't mention the PSP or handhelds. Again.

I believe that's because the topic at hand was the previous console generation. Not the previous handheld generation.

We've spent a LOT Of time on 3DS and Vita over the last year. Enough that we get emails annoyed we spend TOO much time covering Mobile. Guess we can't please everyone. Since we had two consoles launch, it seemed like an appropriate time to talk about their predecessors. When the Wii U launched, we did the exact same thing.

Metatron wrote:

Artistically and technically, the PS360 did more to hamper and cripple game design than any other.

What started out as DLC as costumes and skins turned into games designed specifically to have content taken out and resold as DLC or specific retailer pre-order bonuses.

Game design went from designing a product to sell to designing half a product and a bunch of in-game advertisements for DLC (ala Dragon Age Origins or Dead Space 3).

We've seen the collapse of the middle tier market, which didn't always produce the most technically proficient content, but some of the most interesting. (Where was my Mr. Mosquito of the PS3 generation?) In contrast, we've seen a dumbing down of games into a kind of "blockbuster" akin to summer movies.

We've seen a push for digital distribution, not as a boon for game developers or consumers, but to kill the used games market.

We've seen the crippling of consoles. What happened to backwards compatibility?

Other than crummy licensed games, this gen has introduced every single problem that's wrong with modern gaming.

I'm a little surprised you guys didn't mention the Wii, since you talked about motion gaming.

And you didn't mention the PSP or handhelds. Again.

Metatron, I don't see how the examples you cite following your first sentence have anything to do with consoles.

DLC, unfinished (insta-patch) games, the blockbusterization of AAA games, and digital distribution, etc. are changes in the game industry and how it is finding new ways to take our money. They are not platform-specific.

lostlobster wrote:

Metatron, I don't see how the examples you cite following your first sentence have anything to do with consoles.

DLC, unfinished (insta-patch) games, the blockbusterization of AAA games, and digital distribution, etc. are changes in the game industry and how it is finding new ways to take our money. They are not platform-specific.

No, but they're relevant to the point that the PS360 generation was technically and creative better than the PS2 generation.

I'm also not on board with the universal panning of DLC. Sometimes it's used badly, but DAO was by no means half a game. The DLC was a little in-your-face but it was early days. For a first placement attempt, it was okay.

LarryC wrote:

I'm also not on board with the universal panning of DLC.

Agreed. There's been some great DLC this generation. Bioshock Infinite, Borderlands, New Super Mario 2/U, and Portal 2 immediately come to mind. You're going to argue a generation where we saw wizards lampooning war movies, Bunkers & Badasses come to life, and some memorable RPG side-stories is creatively worse than the last?

Also, Day 1 patches are nothing new (PC gamers have had to deal with them forever) and does not preclude claiming that this generation was better on a technical level than the last.

I'm saying game design has been fundamentally altered in a way that games are designed to act as advertisements to sell you DLC now. Which is true.

Metatron wrote:

I'm saying game design has been fundamentally altered in a way that games are designed to act as advertisements to sell you DLC now. Which is true.

if by that you mean they make a game so fun that once you've completed it you are willing to hand over money for more of the same game, then you're right.

if by that you mean they release partially incomplete games you need to hand over money to experience properly, the usual scenario painted by the anti dlc types, then it hasn't happened yet to my knowledge. And if it does the backlash will be intense.

Metatron wrote:

I'm saying game design has been fundamentally altered in a way that games are designed to act as advertisements to sell you DLC now. Which is true.

In some cases. Add-on content has been a fact of life for... Several decades now. It's certainly new for consoles, but if you think DLC is a radically new phenomena in the industry you're quite mistaken.

I'll give you that the way publishers are marketing the content has changed dramatically. It used to be the case that you had to have a game with good sales before you considered adding onto it. That is no longer the norm, and the platforms/tools have evolved enough that is possible for developers and publishers to market new content directly from inside the game instead of taking out ads in magazines in hopes that their customers might find out about it. Or leaving it entirely up to retail to put the add-on in a prominent location on the shelf so people will see it and hopefully purchase it.

MrDeVil909 wrote:

If by that you mean they release partially incomplete games you need to hand over money to experience properly, the usual scenario painted by the anti dlc types, then it hasn't happened yet to my knowledge. And if it does the backlash will be intense.

It has already happened. And no, there won't be a giant backlash. Most gamers don't seem to have the kind of self-restraint not to play a game, no matter how sleazy the publishers are.

It may not be a "new" phenomena, but there certainly wasn't the level of nickel and diming that we've seen this gen.

And we weren't seeing game play altered to adjust to taking out content to sell later.

Or we're too busy enjoying games to realize that that we should be embarrassed that the people making them are making a profit.

I think you've both just illustrated the opposing views quite succinctly. I'm sure you don't need to spend 40 posts discussing it further? Because I got a bad feeling you might.

So the digital guy gets the last word. I see how it works. Never mind.

I'd be okay with just the 38 posts, myself. 40 is clearly much too long.

Metatron wrote:

So the digital guy gets the last word. I see how it works. Never mind.

I don't think Certis came in just to let the pro-digital fellow have the last word. Certis is instead trying to make sure more is discussed.

As a primarily console gamer and rare DLC buyer, I've found myself fine with most of the games I've played this generation. I have not been hindered by day-one DLC or games with in-game ads like Dragon Age. In fact, I got by in Dead Space 3 without paying for DLC and think the changes they made to make it microtransaction friendly were excellent. I like crafting my weapons.

It's something that can be used for good and evil, and I've happened to experience it mostly for good.

Anyway, you're all missing what is important, and what is important is that the 3DS is the best system forever and ever, amen.

lostlobster wrote:
Metatron wrote:

DLC, unfinished (insta-patch) games, the blockbusterization of AAA games, and digital distribution, etc. are changes in the game industry and how it is finding new ways to take our money. They are not platform-specific.

I might say that the full-package, full-price concept of a "game" as a unified and singular product has broken down, especially when you broaden your focus to notice indies and free-to-play. The PC has always had games and programs that existed in other ways (mods, expansions, hacked copies), but the mental model of the cartridge as complete product has been breaking down since the Game Genie and Sonic & Knuckles. We're just moving along in the same direction.