GWJ Conference Call Episode 357

Conference Call


Brothers, Pikmin 3, Spelunky, Card Hunter, Dragon Commander, Papers Please, Ultima Forever, Oculus Rift, EQ Next, MOBAS, A Brothers Spoiler Section, Your Emails and More!

This week Shawn, Elysium and Cory talk about the Oculus Rift, Everquest Next and more! We also have a spoiler section for the game Brothers after the credits.

To contact us, email [email protected]! Send us your thoughts on the show, pressing issues you want to talk about or whatever else is on your mind. You can even send a 30 second audio question or comment (MP3 format please) if you're so inclined.

Chairman_Mao's Timestamps
00.02.11 Brothers
00.09.10 Spelunky
00.12.03 Papers, please
00.19.27 Dragon Commander
00.28.49 Ultima Forever
00.35.12 Card Hunter
00.39.04 Pikmin 3
00.43.26 Bioshock Infinite: Clash in the Clouds
00.50.32 This week's topics: An Andrich Buffet!
01.25.44 Your emails!
01.49.56 Spoiler Section: Brothers!

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Show credits

Music credits: 

Intro/Outtro Music - Ian Dorsch, Willowtree Audioworks

Figure It Out - Broke for Free - http://brokeforfree.com/ - 50:03

Sidewalk Chalk - Broke for Free - http://brokeforfree.com/ - 1:25:13

Comments

Great episode! Even though the non-spoiler section went on longer than usual it never dragged and was really engaging. Good music choices too.

Don't really have much other feedback than to nod my head in agreement with Cory in that MOBA games haven't really passed you (Sean and Shawn) by, but rather you're just not interested in them. That's ok! I felt like for a while when I thought that I should try out Minecraft because it was the new hotness everyone was playing and I just never got around to it. But looking back I've realized I dragged my heels on getting into it I think primarily because it's not something I was really all that interested in. Same goes for 99% of MMOs.

Glad to hear Shawn's syphilis finally cleared up!

I'm excited about EQ Next!

edit:

Also Shawn, it also looks like they're combining 2 cool things together.

The video shows their creative director using the Oculus Rift.

Papers please sounds like exactly what I do for a living all day. I would probably be excellent at it, but that sounds like work more than fun:)

SallyNasty wrote:

Papers please sounds like exactly what I do for a living all day. I would probably be excellent at it, but that sounds like work more than fun:)

Do you get quasi-terrorist organizations passing you cyphers and keys at your dayjob?

... Actually, don't answer that.

Listening to the podcast now. While Cory talked about Papers, Please (which is a must-play game IMO), he briefly mentions voice acting. There is no voice acting at all in this game. There is a generic, very muffled sound effect for every line of dialog that appears, but that's it.

Just wanted to clear that up. Go play Papers, Please! If you want to try it for free first, a demo was released a few months ago. Just google "papers please demo".

MeatMan wrote:

Listening to the podcast now. While Cory talked about Papers, Please (which is a must-play game IMO), he briefly mentions voice acting. There is no voice acting at all in this game. There is a generic, very muffled sound effect for every line of dialog that appears, but that's it.

Just wanted to clear that up. Go play Papers, Please! If you want to try it for free first, a demo was released a few months ago. Just google "papers please demo".

The one muffled sound effect of you talking says, "Papers, please." That's kind of like voice acting.

Oh, f*ck it. I'll just be wrong again.

Demiurge wrote:

The one muffled sound effect of you talking says, "Papers, please." That's kind of like voice acting.

Oh, is that what that noise is? I keep hearing it whenever Demyx is playing and we just thought it was gibberish.

Another great episode in the can!

I'm with Sean and Shawn, re: MOBAs. I've had a beta invite to Infinite Crisis for a while, but I'd rather play a single player game with a story instead of investing myself in learning a whole new system (and play against other people).

Huh. Lots of interesting topics.

I think that the issue of being in MOBAs and being a monogame-ous gamer is related. I've put in over 1500 hours in Civ V at the moment, all on Prince level. This is by no means exhaustive. There are something like 43 Civs in the game at the moment, at least two ways to play them in terms of economic build (really, more than that), at least 4 map types I interested in trying out, and three interesting Victory Conditions (Cultural, Military, and Scientific) to pull off, to say nothing of various constructed scenarios it would be interesting to see. This means that I've played an average of 1.5 hours for each situation I'm intrigued by, which is to say, nothing in Civ terms.

These games are really the mainstays of a monogame-ous gamer's life. You got your Civ, your MOO2, your Alien Crossfire, and so on. 40-60 hour RPGs offer a welcome break every so often.

A these scales, the first 20 hours of learning something like a MOBA really is nothing very demanding. I think the main consideration there is, "Do you want to be part of that scene?" or "Do you want to be part of that community?" This represents a major commitment - almost like getting into a relationship, which you are, technically.

I recall, back in the day, when my friend practiced Tekken 3 and Tekken Tag Tournament enough that he could use Lei Wu Long, who has something like 5 stances, and use every move at will, on command. He knew the ranges, weaknesses, frames. He knew the goddamn HAHA Step, which is apparently a complex continuous joystick input that made you move like Neo. As any fighting game fan will confirm, something like this requires hundreds of hours of practice, just to get in the game. The rabbit hole goes deep on that one.

Speaking from my own experiences playing SC1 in cafes in the early 2000s until 4 in the morning, the healthy influx of new blood into these communities and games is heavily influenced by how smooth the ride is going in. It's really no fun getting beat up 10x in a row in SC. It's no more fun being on the beating side of that equation. Playing rank noobs without handicaps is like playing against bad AI, only worse 'cause you know you're killing someone's enthusiasm for your favorite game. The look of disappointment and despair is crushing. Hey, dude, wait! It's a great game, honest! Waaaaaiiit!!!!

In a LAN cafe environment, we had ways around this. Being that I was around the place so much, the owner would occasionally ask me a favor and "play AI." That is, I would constrain myself to only play specific ways in order to present a more palatable experience for newbies. He would say, "give me a fast 6 pool," or "play a delayed Zealot rush with Cannon turtling," or "you can only attack enemy bases with Sunken Colonies." It was like Funday Monday, but serving a good purpose. This was also very relaxing for me, because I was also usually playing to lose, even while maxing my efforts - having the newbies win after a good fight was a nice thing.

Since leaving the scene, I've felt the loss of that support. I don't have time to go to cafes anymore, and my old haunts are gone. I can't ask a friend to charge me with his best Zealot Rush 5 game in a row. There are no hands to help me up.

I love Spelunky. My six year-old daughter and I play together on the XBox and have a great time. She even likes it when she dies and gets to be a ghost.

One thing that might help you get into it Shawn, is to read up a bit on the Wiki. Getting through the entire game doesn't have to be the goal. You can try to get swallowed by a giant worm, or get to the Black Market, or the haunted castle, or reach the City of Gold. You don't win the game for doing any of this, but they're shorter term goals that help you feel like you're getting somewhere.

We've never finished the game. I'm not sure we ever will. But I still laugh when I run straight toward an unseen dart shooting block which knocks me unconscious, into a bat and down a long shaft onto some spikes. And my death screen merely says "You died again."

Great show, as always.

Just wanted to point out that Metroid Prime Trilogy is, indeed, difficult to find and not particularly cheap. Thankfully, I picked up a copy when it was new for $50.

Copies on Ebay are going for about $100 now. This is because A). It was a limited release, and B). it comes in a special collectors edition metallic case. A truly awesome metallic case, by the way.

So yeah, if you can find it, the controls are very awesome and they're spectacular games. Metroid Prime 3: Corruption can be found on its own for very cheap, of course, and I enjoyed it quite a bit.

ilduce620 wrote:

Great show, as always.

Just wanted to point out that Metroid Prime Trilogy is, indeed, difficult to find and not particularly cheap. Thankfully, I picked up a copy when it was new for $50.

Copies on Ebay are going for about $100 now. This is because A). It was a limited release, and B). it comes in a special collectors edition metallic case. A truly awesome metallic case, by the way.

Gamestop is rumored to be prepping to sell copies for around $85-90 under their new "Vintage" label which they recently launched with (re-)selling copies of Xenoblade Chronicles.

Join us in DOTA Cory...Join us......

ETS2 has some insane roads. In many cases the GPS will instruct you to avoid them and stick to the highways, but they're all over the place if you look for them. Sometimes the GPS will route you through them naturally too.

Look at the GPS below - there are some crazy switchbacks (these aren't even necessarily the worst, just the only screenshots I have)

IMAGE(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-hJocDRe3BCw/Ug0ETc8UNAI/AAAAAAAAMjQ/Hw8CtKHBBV4/s800/ets2_00044.png)

IMAGE(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-b_2nMVte72U/Ug0ElHs4PkI/AAAAAAAAMjg/d_rB5318jmM/s800/ets2_00002.png)

And I believe this was a freeway in the Alps

IMAGE(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-XzPR4DM-Frw/Ug0EdbMXoGI/AAAAAAAAMjY/cX1fmMBNEdY/s800/ets2_00054.png)

Illinois is terrible to drive through. Boring boring boring - and slow 65 mph speed limit.

Atomicvideohead wrote:

Join us in DOTA Cory...Join us......

This, mixed with your Videodrome-quoting sig, is absolutely haunting.

I think it bears repeating that while the Bechdel Test is applied to individual film elements, it is made to apply to an entire body of work, and is an indicator for one specific thing: a dramatic paucity of female protagonists. It's not meant to show anything other than that. I'm in total agreement with Elysium there.

As I was listening to the podcast, I immediately thought of Japanese media - every harem-type anime, and all the games that dovetail with, are inspired by, or are in a franchise with the same shows. Magical girl anime and games fall into the same bucket - they all are shows that have heavy female casting, even though most of these examples (except magical girl shows and the like) feature a male lead and are created from a male perspective.

The sheer mass of female protagonists ensures that the Bechdel test is inevitably passed in many of these works, but that doesn't mean that they show women as equals to men.

gore wrote:

ETS2 has some insane roads. In many cases the GPS will instruct you to avoid them and stick to the highways, but they're all over the place if you look for them. Sometimes the GPS will route you through them naturally too.

Look at the GPS below - there are some crazy switchbacks (these aren't even necessarily the worst, just the only screenshots I have)

This is the worst I've driven through...
IMAGE(http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/921257169076507270/0FF4D87800688C202BF61466DD9872D6044F1E6E/)

So about the Wii question: I totally didn't buy one. Someone I lived with did and it has been sitting around for the last two weeks in a plastic bag waiting for someone to use it Same person who bought this bought a PS2 a few years back and used it maybe three times to play SingStar.

I think I might pick up Mario Kart and Wind Waker because I've played Mario Galaxy and the pointless arm waving bugged the crap out of me (and my elbow).

Brothers....so should I not buy it so my wife can use half the controller and me the other?

(No spoilers!)

Keithustus wrote:

Brothers....so should I not buy it so my wife can use half the controller and me the other?

(No spoilers!)

What a sweet image.

Woohoo! Glad to hear BigFishGames is a sponsor, my awesome little sister and her husband work there.
Great podcast, as always. Sold on Brothers, will have to check that out after I finish Shadowrun Returns.

"Shawn's Buff, Eh?"

I think this is, quintessentially, the best show ever!

Felt like I had to make an account just to say something.
DOTA is not for everyone, just like any other game. If you don't want to play a MOBA, that's fine of course. But I hope no one passes on the game because they feel they must be competitive right away or they'll ruin the fun of the game. You shouldn't sit down to a game (especially one with a steep learning curve like this) thinking you must perform at a certain level or you're doing something wrong.

I have some advice for people who want to try the game or have felt put off by their first try. It probably flies in the face of what you've been told or would intuitively think.

1. Don't read guides. They are there for when you ready for them, but you're not. Learn the game by playing the tutorial, vs bots, and low skill matchmaking (see next point). You are not going to enjoy studying DOTA before you know how to play, you won't be able to memorize and recall what you've read while in game, and you simply haven't acquired the skill to perform what guides will suggest. I think you'll find the majority of people who came into DOTA learned by playing, then turned to guides later when they wanted to improve. Trying to learn it like a subject then using the games as "Tests" will probably irritate you.

2. Don't matchmake in a group with friends. I say this because if you queue into matchmaking as a party, you will only be faced with other preformed parties. This will typically lead to you facing off more organized players and you aren't ready for organized play. Also if you're friend is more skilled than you, matchmaking will place players on the other team that are also more skilled than you. You'll probably get stomped and not enjoy it if it happens every game. If you insist on playing with a friend, they really should make some smurf accounts to keep matchmaking from grouping you with more advanced players. Let MM set you up with other new players.

3. The last update to the tutorial introduced a mode that only allows players to pick from a pool of 20 heros. This is a great place to continue learning after completing the tutorial.

4. Just play the game and expect all the stuff that comes with picking up a new game. You will lose, badly sometimes. You will also win just as much. Don't just remember all the loses and forget the wins. You'll get better game by game. I can't say it enough, play the game and have fun. Don't try to follow guides until you are well and ready for them. You will perform better playing the way you want rather than trying to "keep up" with a guide. You simply will not be able to execute them for some time.

FunkyFunky wrote:

Felt like I had to make an account just to say something.

Welcome to the site! I hope you've enjoyed the conference call....now I hope you're tempted to find a forum or two you might want to follow. For instance, maybe the DOTA 2 Catch-All? Just mark it as favorite, then come back to the site every few days....tell war stories, etc. Trust me, you'll like it. Before long you'll be DOTAing with GWJers as well as your current crew.

I don't play LoL or any MOBAs / Lords Management / whatever they're called this week, but your notes seem especially well thought out and I would imagine them to be useful for tentative new players, and if I do get the urge to dip my toes someday, I'll keep them in mind. Thanks!

In case anyone is wondering, Brothers looks god-damned amazing on PC.

With regard to the Brothers spoiler section:

Spoiler:

On Justin's idea, of this being the prequel to a larger story, they should create a sequel, in which the left stick and left trigger do nothing, and the people who played the first game can be very sad about it, and everyone else can be confused.