GWJ Conference Call Episode 312

Conference Call

WoW: Mists of Pandaria, Tokyo Jungle, Orc Must Die 2 DLC2, How Gaming Fits Into Our Lives, Your Emails and more!

This week Shawn, Julian, Sean and Cory talk about how gaming fits into their day to day lives and ravenous Pomeranians.

To contact us, email [email protected]! Send us your thoughts on the show, pressing issues you want to talk about or whatever else is on your mind. You can even send a 30 second audio question or comment (MP3 format please) if you're so inclined.

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Audible

Chairman_Mao's Timestamps
00.02.18 WOW: Pandaria
00.16.29 Tokyo Jungle
00.25.37 Orcs Must Die 2 DLC: Family Ties
00.29.38 Graham Rowat's reading of Sean Sands' Whims of the Father
00.35.49 This week's topic: Our relationship with games!
00.50.57 Donation Drive update!
00.52.05 Your emails!

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Show credits

Music credits: 

Alpha - Workbench Music - http://workbench-music.com - 29:10

Seeing the Future - Dexter Britain - http://freemusicarchive.org/music/De... - 29:38

Backup - Workbench Music - http://workbench-music.com - 50:27

Intro/Outtro Music - Ian Dorsch, Willowtree Audioworks

Comments

Loved the Cory counseling session. Nothing like airing your dirty laundry to the world.

Warning - pedant alert:

"Moore's law is the observation that over the history of computing hardware, the number of transistors on integrated circuits doubles approximately every two years"

garion333 wrote:

Loved the Cory counseling session. Nothing like airing your dirty laundry to the world. ;)

And yet he was so elusive when it came to describing what he does for a living. Very curious, Mr. Banks.

nivek wrote:
garion333 wrote:

Loved the Cory counseling session. Nothing like airing your dirty laundry to the world. ;)

And yet he was so elusive when it came to describing what he does for a living. Very curious, Mr. Banks.

When you're a prostitute it's probably not a good idea to air it to the whole world.

Leveling in WoW:

Just finished the episode. Great episode, as usual. I too can't enjoy games unless I'm in the right mood. And I think it has a lot to do with a sense of responsibilities and priorities. If I know there is something that needs to get done, or I have some problem that is bothering me, I can't enjoy my game. Because the focus on what's going on in the game is overshadowed by whatever is on my mind at the time. Game playing is a way for me to relax and enjoy free time. I can't do that when there is something that needs doing. And I think it has to do with being a responsible person with the right set of priorities. There's nothing wrong with that.

Rabbit worked at a mutual fund company and writes for financial sector. We are gamers with Jobs. We should get him to do an article on how we should invest in our 401(k) plans.

Financial planning for nerds has been on my back-burner "write someday" list for a long time.

So Tokyo Jungle is basically a remake of EVO: The Search for Eden and the Creature Stage of Spore? Sold.

reddwarf42 wrote:

Julian's criticisms on the other hand just seem like one of those 13 year olds who say "Pandas are dumb! There not cool like wolves." I think they fit into the world just fine.

I'm with rabbit here -- World of Warcraft was based on an IP that's at least somewhat traditional fantasy, with Tolkein-esque races. Now it has giant furries. An idea that came about as a joke, mind.

I think it's fair to look at a bad idea and say, "that's really lame", even absent direct experience.

TheHipGamer wrote:
reddwarf42 wrote:

Julian's criticisms on the other hand just seem like one of those 13 year olds who say "Pandas are dumb! There not cool like wolves." I think they fit into the world just fine.

I'm with rabbit here -- World of Warcraft was based on an IP that's at least somewhat traditional fantasy, with Tolkein-esque races. Now it has giant furries. An idea that came about as a joke, mind.

I think it's fair to look at a bad idea and say, "that's really lame", even absent direct experience.

Furry like giant wolves and cows? Lame without trying first will make you miss out of some good experiences like Dust: An Elysian Tale.

Another reading. Awesome. Love that stuff.

reddwarf42 wrote:
TheHipGamer wrote:
reddwarf42 wrote:

Julian's criticisms on the other hand just seem like one of those 13 year olds who say "Pandas are dumb! There not cool like wolves." I think they fit into the world just fine.

I'm with rabbit here -- World of Warcraft was based on an IP that's at least somewhat traditional fantasy, with Tolkein-esque races. Now it has giant furries. An idea that came about as a joke, mind.

I think it's fair to look at a bad idea and say, "that's really lame", even absent direct experience.

Furry like giant wolves and cows? Lame without trying first will make you miss out of some good experiences like Dust: An Elysian Tale.

I think the issue at hand is world internal consistency. And the complaint is that the Pandaren, while they did exist for a while, were not a consistent part of the canonical Warcraft world. Or rather, they were made so in Mists of Pandaria. A little too much of the developers *wink wink nudge nudge*ing the players.

maverickz wrote:
reddwarf42 wrote:
TheHipGamer wrote:
reddwarf42 wrote:

Julian's criticisms on the other hand just seem like one of those 13 year olds who say "Pandas are dumb! There not cool like wolves." I think they fit into the world just fine.

I'm with rabbit here -- World of Warcraft was based on an IP that's at least somewhat traditional fantasy, with Tolkein-esque races. Now it has giant furries. An idea that came about as a joke, mind.

I think it's fair to look at a bad idea and say, "that's really lame", even absent direct experience.

Furry like giant wolves and cows? Lame without trying first will make you miss out of some good experiences like Dust: An Elysian Tale.

I think the issue at hand is world internal consistency. And the complaint is that the Pandaren, while they did exist for a while, were not a consistent part of the canonical Warcraft world. Or rather, they were made so in Mists of Pandaria. A little too much of the developers *wink wink nudge nudge*ing the players.

The thing is, I don't really care much about the "lore" -- I don't have anything against humor or pandas. My point was simply that I don't feel like Blizzard even cared about the experience of players in the Pandarian starting zone. It's boring, uninteresting, uninspired.

It's just my opinion, it's fine if you think I'm wrong.

rabbit wrote:
maverickz wrote:
reddwarf42 wrote:
TheHipGamer wrote:
reddwarf42 wrote:

Julian's criticisms on the other hand just seem like one of those 13 year olds who say "Pandas are dumb! There not cool like wolves." I think they fit into the world just fine.

I'm with rabbit here -- World of Warcraft was based on an IP that's at least somewhat traditional fantasy, with Tolkein-esque races. Now it has giant furries. An idea that came about as a joke, mind.

I think it's fair to look at a bad idea and say, "that's really lame", even absent direct experience.

Furry like giant wolves and cows? Lame without trying first will make you miss out of some good experiences like Dust: An Elysian Tale.

I think the issue at hand is world internal consistency. And the complaint is that the Pandaren, while they did exist for a while, were not a consistent part of the canonical Warcraft world. Or rather, they were made so in Mists of Pandaria. A little too much of the developers *wink wink nudge nudge*ing the players.

The thing is, I don't really care much about the "lore" -- I don't have anything against humor or pandas. My point was simply that I don't feel like Blizzard even cared about the experience of players in the Pandarian starting zone. It's boring, uninteresting, uninspired.

It's just my opinion, it's fine if you think I'm wrong.

That's fair. And like you said,entirely independent of the theme of the expansion. I kind of wonder what the design and release process was that led to this situation. It's not like they were in a big hurry for release, I mean, not really.

All that talk about panaderías makes me hungry.

"Bread makes you fat!?"

rabbit wrote:

Financial planning for nerds has been on my back-burner "write someday" list for a long time.

Your services were purchased for two articles. Perhaps after the ponies, you do this one...?

I agree with Corey's criticisms of the World of Warcraft. After Guild Wars 2, Mists of Pandaria does seem slow. I still like it a lot but I get his criticisms. Guild Wars dynamic content makes the world see more "alive" and WoW does not have that feel.

Julian's criticisms on the other hand just seem like one of those 13 year olds who say "Pandas are dumb! They're not cool like wolves." I think they fit into the world just fine. He admitted that he hasn't even played endgame where most of the content is and still ripped it. I don't get how he can make a determination on something where he hasn't played most of the new content.

They $40 for the expansion is really not the issue either. Its the monthly fee. If they dropped the monthly fee then the $40 fee for this amount of content in this expansion would not be a rip off. It's a lot of content! They could sell pets and convenience items and still make a profit. Not as much as they make now and that's why they won't do it.

Really enjoyed the broader discussion about gaming's role in your lives. Like Cory, I find that my own gaming time has declined as other things -- marriage, a house, a career with increased demands on my time, and even other hobbies -- have taken up more of those free hours. I'm also not 18 or even 28 any longer, and by 11pm or so, I'm pretty much wiped out and ready to sleep.

I suspect that no hobby occupies a permanent, unchanged place in a healthy adult's schedule. It doesn't need to be a reflection of some mutable Self -- it's just that you've changed, grown, and have varying amounts of time and attention to dedicate to things that once filled a different space. In fact, to play directly off of Cory's discussion, if you step away from gaming as an identity, it becomes much easier to say, "I used to do X quite a bit, and now I do it less often because I have other stuff to do instead." Save the hand-wringing for stuff like, "Am I a good partner?" and "Do I make ethical choices about my place in the world?"

Liking, disliking, or disengaging with videogames doesn't need to be definitional. Even if you take them as worthy of critical analysis, they aren't That Important.

I'm giving this week's discussions of Tokyo Jungle to Idle Thumbs, which managed it with about 98% less snorting and "Oh my Gods", and 100% more actual, you know, discussion. Sorry you were talking to the wall, Certis.

Sorry, it must be one of those you have to play it to get it games. It sounded ridiculous to me. Concept just didn't grab me at all.

Giant Bomb did an awesome quick look for Tokyo Jungle. It looked very interesting, and if it weren't for the fact that my pile is huge right now, I'd probably try it out.

Gravey wrote:

I'm giving this week's discussions of Tokyo Jungle to Idle Thumbs, which managed it with about 98% less snorting and "Oh my Gods", and 100% more actual, you know, discussion. Sorry you were talking to the wall, Certis.

The Pomeranian was my enthusiasm and Elysium was the cow.

Certis wrote:
Gravey wrote:

I'm giving this week's discussions of Tokyo Jungle to Idle Thumbs, which managed it with about 98% less snorting and "Oh my Gods", and 100% more actual, you know, discussion. Sorry you were talking to the wall, Certis.

The Pomeranian was my enthusiasm and Elysium was the cow.

Certis wrote:
Gravey wrote:

I'm giving this week's discussions of Tokyo Jungle to Idle Thumbs, which managed it with about 98% less snorting and "Oh my Gods", and 100% more actual, you know, discussion. Sorry you were talking to the wall, Certis.

The Pomeranian was my enthusiasm and Elysium was the cow.

Sounded like 100% awesome to me. If I ever had a moment to play my PS3 anymore, I'd definitely pick it up. On that note, this week's topic couldn't be more timely. My feelings toward gaming go through phases, and right now it's in a place where games, for the most part, feel less like good entertainment and too much like a waste of time--i.e., whenever I play I feel a bit guilty I'm not doing something more "productive" with my time. Probably the result of fatherhood, and other big life changes on the horizon. Once things settle down a bit, I imagine I'll be able to enjoy gaming more again.

TheHipGamer wrote:

Really enjoyed the broader discussion about gaming's role in your lives. Like Cory, I find that my own gaming time has declined as other things -- marriage, a house, a career with increased demands on my time, and even other hobbies -- have taken up more of those free hours. I'm also not 18 or even 28 any longer, and by 11pm or so, I'm pretty much wiped out and ready to sleep.

I suspect that no hobby occupies a permanent, unchanged place in a healthy adult's schedule. It doesn't need to be a reflection of some mutable Self -- it's just that you've changed, grown, and have varying amounts of time and attention to dedicate to things that once filled a different space. In fact, to play directly off of Cory's discussion, if you step away from gaming as an identity, it becomes much easier to say, "I used to do X quite a bit, and now I do it less often because I have other stuff to do instead." Save the hand-wringing for stuff like, "Am I a good partner?" and "Do I make ethical choices about my place in the world?"

Liking, disliking, or disengaging with videogames doesn't need to be definitional. Even if you take them as worthy of critical analysis, they aren't That Important.

The term 'Gamer' is something that bugs me. It's a self identifying label that people put on themselves based on a hobby and it seems to cause a struggle when the hobby becomes less central to their identity.

In no other hobby does a person identify so strongly with the hobby, except maybe cosplayers. A guy who goes fishing every Sunday doesn't call himself a 'Fisherman,' maybe an angler if he's a douche. A person who builds models isn't a 'Modeller' or reads books isn't a 'Reader.'

They all just do something that they find amusing without needing to use it as part of their identity.

*edit*

Of course the fact that I said this in reply to someone with the word 'Gamer' in the handle just occurred to me as funny as I hit post.

MrDeVil909 wrote:
TheHipGamer wrote:

Really enjoyed the broader discussion about gaming's role in your lives. Like Cory, I find that my own gaming time has declined as other things -- marriage, a house, a career with increased demands on my time, and even other hobbies -- have taken up more of those free hours. I'm also not 18 or even 28 any longer, and by 11pm or so, I'm pretty much wiped out and ready to sleep.

I suspect that no hobby occupies a permanent, unchanged place in a healthy adult's schedule. It doesn't need to be a reflection of some mutable Self -- it's just that you've changed, grown, and have varying amounts of time and attention to dedicate to things that once filled a different space. In fact, to play directly off of Cory's discussion, if you step away from gaming as an identity, it becomes much easier to say, "I used to do X quite a bit, and now I do it less often because I have other stuff to do instead." Save the hand-wringing for stuff like, "Am I a good partner?" and "Do I make ethical choices about my place in the world?"

Liking, disliking, or disengaging with videogames doesn't need to be definitional. Even if you take them as worthy of critical analysis, they aren't That Important.

The term 'Gamer' is something that bugs me. It's a self identifying label that people put on themselves based on a hobby and it seems to cause a struggle when the hobby becomes less central to their identity.

In no other hobby does a person identify so strongly with the hobby, except maybe cosplayers. A guy who goes fishing every Sunday doesn't call himself a 'Fisherman,' maybe an angler if he's a douche. A person who builds models isn't a 'Modeller' or reads books isn't a 'Reader.'

They all just do something that they find amusing without needing to use it as part of their identity.

*edit*

Of course the fact that I said this in reply to someone with the word 'Gamer' in the handle just occurred to me as funny as I hit post.

I was a Gamer before...eh, f*ck it.

Chairman_Mao wrote:
Certis wrote:
Gravey wrote:

I'm giving this week's discussions of Tokyo Jungle to Idle Thumbs, which managed it with about 98% less snorting and "Oh my Gods", and 100% more actual, you know, discussion. Sorry you were talking to the wall, Certis.

The Pomeranian was my enthusiasm and Elysium was the cow.

Sounded like 100% awesome to me. If I ever had a moment to play my PS3 anymore, I'd definitely pick it up. On that note, this week's topic couldn't be more timely. My feelings toward gaming go through phases, and right now it's in a place where games, for the most part, feel less like good entertainment and too much like a waste of time--i.e., whenever I play I feel a bit guilty I'm not doing something more "productive" with my time. Probably the result of fatherhood, and other big life changes on the horizon. Once things settle down a bit, I imagine I'll be able to enjoy gaming more again.

I picked up Tokyo Jungle based on the conversation in this week's call. It's fantastic fun, especially for $12 -- the environments are neat, the gameplay is relatively dynamic, and it scratches an emergent/rogue-like itch that nothing else I have on the PS3 does.

00.29.38 Graham Rowat's reading of Sean Sands' Whims of the Father

This was one of the most epic things I've heard for a while. Contemplating snipping it out and using it as "motivational media" each month.

Now, where's that donate button ..

MrDeVil909 wrote:

In no other hobby does a person identify so strongly with the hobby, except maybe cosplayers. A guy who goes fishing every Sunday doesn't call himself a 'Fisherman,' maybe an angler if he's a douche. A person who builds models isn't a 'Modeller' or reads books isn't a 'Reader.'

Wow. Not my experience. I know lots of bikers, surfers and snowboarders who deeply, culturally identify with their hobby. I think Nerds by their nature tend to go deeper into things, thus you get perhaps a higher density of really into it folks in gaming, computers, anime, comics, dr. Who, whatever.

Even so, I've never heard someone say "I'm a gamer" at a cocktail party. Instead, three minutes into a conversation when someone asks "what do you do for fun" games might come up. Try might not.