GWJ Conference Call Episode 280

Conference Call


Live From rabbitcon!, Artemis Live, Soul Calibur V, Skylanders, Lots of Board Games, Your Live Questions and more!

This week we recorded live at rabbitcon and talk about playing Artemis live, tons of boardgames and more. If you're really not into the board game thing, you've been warned. Back to video games in full force next week. Promise.

To contact us, email [email protected]! Send us your thoughts on the show, pressing issues you want to talk about or whatever else is on your mind. You can even send a 30 second audio question or comment (MP3 format please) if you're so inclined.

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Audible
Tech Thing Daily
Game Thing Daily
Good Old Games

Artemis Bridge Simulator
Soul Calibur V
Skylanders
Lords of Waterdeep
Wiz-War
Dominant Species
Revolution!
A Few Acres of Snow

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Show credits

Music credits: 

Intro/Outtro Music - Ian Dorsch, Willowtree Audioworks

Crowdpleaser - SGX - http://sgxmusic.com/ - 44:49

Comments

In last week's podcast, you guys kept talking like buying a Vita costs the same as an iPad

Last time I checked an iPad is 500-600$, so what gives?

Unless you buy it with a 32gb memory card and 4-6 games there's no way it's going to cost as much

Come on now, are you guys just talking yourselves out of buying one?

"If you're really not into the board game thing, you've been warned."

I'm gonna listen 'cause I like you guys, but thanks for the heads up.

Personally, I'd love a warning when you talk about sports rather than board games.

Aw, they NEVER talk sports beyond someone sheepishly admitting a Madden purchase, or two minutes on a given year's NHL release.

I'm a half-hour in and I have no idea what's going on. "Work replacement" games? Am I hearing that right?

interstate78 wrote:
In last week's podcast, you guys kept talking like buying a Vita costs the same as an iPad

Last time I checked an iPad is 500-600$, so what gives?

Unless you buy it with a 32gb memory card and 4-6 games there's no way it's going to cost as much

Come on now, are you guys just talking yourselves out of buying one? ;)


PS Vita WiFi is $250.
Uncharted: Golden Abyss is $50.
32gb Memory Card -- required if I want to download PSN games and not worry about space like on an iPad -- is an outrageous $100.

So that's $400 right there. We're approaching iPad territory, without the added media benefits of a Vita.

Now, that's all beside the point of if we're talking ourselves out of one. I am talking myself out of it. It's an exciting piece of hardware, and if I knew I'd be using it and playing games on it, I'd go buy one.

But I was so excited about my impulse 3DS purchase, too. And now I'm not even sure where I put the thing in my apartment.

So no, I'm not hating on the Vita. I want it to succeed. But it's a costly investment if you're not sure what you'll get out of it.

(Full disclosure, none of those Amazon links have affiliate codes on them, because I don't know what the GWJ code is.)

Also, let me add one more time just how amazing Lords of Waterdeep was. It's like $30 on Amazon preorder right now, guys. Go get it!

Slumberland wrote:
Aw, they NEVER talk sports beyond someone sheepishly admitting a Madden purchase, or two minutes on a given year's NHL release.

I'm a half-hour in and I have no idea what's going on. "Work replacement" games? Am I hearing that right?

"Worker Placement", you basically spend the game placing your workers on pieces in order to control the production buildings. I thought at several points during the podcast we were delving pretty deep into boardgame detail without actually explaining it, but it's tough to explain an entirely new genre so quickly.

Also also, now that I've got those Amazon tabs open, I'm *super* tempted to order a 3G Launch Vita. Dammit.

Demiurge wrote:
(Full disclosure, none of those Amazon links have affiliate codes on them, because I don't know what the GWJ code is.)

The site automatically changes Amazon links to affiliate links. MWAHAHAHAHA!

Certis wrote:
Demiurge wrote:
(Full disclosure, none of those Amazon links have affiliate codes on them, because I don't know what the GWJ code is.)

The site automatically changes Amazon links to affiliate links. MWAHAHAHAHA!

GamersWithJobs.com - In It For The Profit

PyromanFO wrote:
Slumberland wrote:
Aw, they NEVER talk sports beyond someone sheepishly admitting a Madden purchase, or two minutes on a given year's NHL release.

I'm a half-hour in and I have no idea what's going on. "Work replacement" games? Am I hearing that right?

"Worker Placement", you basically spend the game placing your workers on pieces in order to control the production buildings.

Sounds awfully Marxist.

Heads up, the Mass Effect 3 multiplayer is pretty hot. It's got some good RPG hooks where you gain exp for abilities and coins to buy booster packs that include weapons, single use items, and new race/class combos. You can choose higher difficulties and randomize which map you play to get more rewards. The demo only has 2 maps vs Cerberus but it looks like there will be other foes you can choose from. Each match has 10 waves which end when you kill all the baddies. Some waves will make you kill certain enemies within the time limit or capture points a la battlefield. I was surprised at how deliberately it's played, you can do well sort of taking your time and picking your targets -at least as a Turian Sentinel which was my class. So anyway, you guys should check it out.

Demiurge wrote:
PS Vita WiFi is $250.
Uncharted: Golden Abyss is $50.
32gb Memory Card -- required if I want to download PSN games and not worry about space like on an iPad -- is an outrageous $100.

So that's $400 right there. We're approaching iPad territory, without the added media benefits of a Vita.

I'll happily agree that the 32 GB memory card price is ridiculous, but a $400 purchase that includes a game is not "approaching iPad territory" - you're still $100 out out from getting the iPad 2 hardware by itself, let alone any games to play on it.

Also, as much as I've enjoyed Ascension, Ziggurat, Helsing's Fire, and other iOS games, I wouldn't stack them up next to Uncharted and say that we're talking about the same kinds of experiences here. There may be some bleedover between the markets between a Vita and an iPad, but I would challenge the idea that getting one can completely supercede the other for all of your needs. They're different platforms that can serve similar, but not identical, purposes.

Certis wrote:
Demiurge wrote:
(Full disclosure, none of those Amazon links have affiliate codes on them, because I don't know what the GWJ code is.)

The site automatically changes Amazon links to affiliate links. MWAHAHAHAHA!

Welcome to 1984.

GWJ is a police state.

I was a little taken aback about the heap of disdain piled on Catan. I know any board game carried in Barnes & Noble is the analog equivalent of Call of Duty for some, but as a starter drug it's introduced waves of non-gamers into my circle. Last weekend I had a session with some friends in town who hadn't played board games since they were kids. After a few rounds of Catan we upgraded to Small World. It's only a matter of time before I can sell them on Battlestar Galactica.*

True story, another friend of mine who's currently obsessed with modding A Few Acres of Snow had never played Catan. Two days ago I broke out the box, illustrated the rules and he was interesting in getting a session going.

Is Catan too simple, or too popular to admit that you like it?

*Wrath of Arshadalon, however, was a huge mistake. I'm having serious remorse about those D&D games. Either I'm reading the directions wrong, need to implement some house rules or have to hand off the components to a buddy who runs a 4.0 D&D campaign.

I've been kind of half looking for simple boardgames with an eye toward maybe grabbing a few friends and trying to organize maybe a monthly (or maybe twice monthly, not sure) boardgame night.

Wiz War sounds like a perfect entry. I already have Dominion which we've played a couple of times, and I picked up Summoner Wars just because I thought it looked cool but haven't played it yet. I'm not sure I "get" all the rules for that one just reading them, I think I need to sit down and play it with somebody first. Always seems easier to have someone else there to figure things out with.

Anyway, I figure if I can get another game or two that even a relative dummy like myself can manage to learn and teach I can have enough variety even just on my own to keep the game night thing going for at least a little while, and maybe once it's a regular thing others can pitch in a new game every so often to liven things up.

It sounds like Seven Wonders is another easy choice, but I was thinking maybe one more. Is that Resistance card game another one that's easy to play? It's super cheap, like $15, so it's an easy buy.

I have my tax return coming so I can put a wee little dent in it for some boardgames if it means having more options to ease people into a game night with. We've gotten together to play boardgames before and everyone seems to enjoy it, I just need to prod everybody a little bit into making it a more regular thing.

Please don't tell my employer that Caylus is a "work replacement" game. It's hard enough to explain why I come in everyday with my iPad under my arm and disappear behind a closed office door!

Just a short note from a long time listener/lurker:

Like BlueBrain said, the Multiplayer demo is actually really good, and this is from someone who is not a multiplayer fan and who was pretty skeptical of it (I remembered the Bioshock 2 multiplayer, ug).

It plays as coop and it is set up so someone who goes Rambo more often than not dies. Plus anyone can rez someone else, so sticking together and playing as a team is really to one advantage off the bat.

It plays in 11 rounds 7 of which (if I remember correctly are similar to horde mode type stuff. 4 of which are missions (deactivate 4 machines, eliminate targets, download info, etc) where the enemy is there to stop you.

So far I have not had the usual ass dushery that accompanies my limited multiplayer excursions, including no drunken 12 year old sailors shouting neo-Nazi slogans while they cuss you out.

I have only played it and nothing else since the multiplayer went active. It is a real blast.

Certis wrote:
Demiurge wrote:
(Full disclosure, none of those Amazon links have affiliate codes on them, because I don't know what the GWJ code is.)

The site automatically changes Amazon links to affiliate links. MWAHAHAHAHA!

Does it really? Because I have spent a lot of time trying to use the Amazon search box to generate link addresses that would give GWJ credit for a sale when referencing a book or something. I was wasting my time?

What is wrong with Catan? I don't have it so I don't know. Is it Monopoly or is it too hard?

My wife has asked me to play Ticket to Ride with me for 3 weeks in a row. She is not a gamer at all.

Thank you conference callers for playing and discussing Lords of Waterdeep. I am NOT an experienced D&Der but I love me some Dungeon Keeper (board game: Dungeon Lords) and whatnot. So the idea of having a fun and easy version of Agricola (snore) immediately hooked me. I've already contacted my FLGS about the release date.

goman, you're asking what's wrong with Catan? One huge drawback is the first-turn loss problem. Another is the stalemated trade in the mid- to end-game. There's just too much luck for the kinds of interactions with players it intends. While I'm not going to make the case for it being a bad game, I would be hard pressed to classify it as great, either. Apparently one/some of the expansions are quite useful, but I've not tried any. However, standard Catan is, rightly so, the standard base-entry into modern board games, and is an exceptionally good introduction for folks who were only exposed to Ameritrash.

What does first turn loss problem mean? The first person always loses?

OzymandiasAV wrote:
Demiurge wrote:
PS Vita WiFi is $250.
Uncharted: Golden Abyss is $50.
32gb Memory Card -- required if I want to download PSN games and not worry about space like on an iPad -- is an outrageous $100.

So that's $400 right there. We're approaching iPad territory, without the added media benefits of a Vita.

I'll happily agree that the 32 GB memory card price is ridiculous, but a $400 purchase that includes a game is not "approaching iPad territory" - you're still $100 out out from getting the iPad 2 hardware by itself, let alone any games to play on it.

Also, as much as I've enjoyed Ascension, Ziggurat, Helsing's Fire, and other iOS games, I wouldn't stack them up next to Uncharted and say that we're talking about the same kinds of experiences here. There may be some bleedover between the markets between a Vita and an iPad, but I would challenge the idea that getting one can completely supercede the other for all of your needs. They're different platforms that can serve similar, but not identical, purposes.

I'm not sure I understand your point. I didn't put a value judgement on the experience of either platform. What are you saying?

A first turn loss means if you screw up your first turn, you effectively lose the game -- after hours of struggle. Catan has perhaps the worst first-turn-loss problem of any game I've ever played. If you don't make your placement on statistically high value tiles (hard to do in a 4-5 player game) you effectively get shut out of resource production.

My diss of Catan is just that vanilla 4-5 player catan takes FOREVER and doesn't get more interesting. 3-player cities and knights, however, is SUPER interesting and has real progression.

rabbit wrote:
My diss of Catan is just that vanilla 4-5 player catan takes FOREVER and doesn't get more interesting. 3-player cities and knights, however, is SUPER interesting and has real progression.

This is a little off-topic, but what's with 5 players being the max for so many board games, or Cities & Knights working best with 3? Do game designers not have spouses or hang out with other couples or something? [size=8](He asks, tongue in cheek, but also kinda serious, but more of a joke, but for reals why is that.)[/size]

Demiurge wrote:
I'm not sure I understand your point. I didn't put a value judgement on the experience of either platform. What are you saying?

The second paragraph was more of a response to Vita/iPad comparisons in general, not necessarily anything that you said specifically.

The first paragraph, however, was meant to be a more direct counterpoint to your comments on pricing differences. $100 is a pretty substantial gap, in my opinion.

OzymandiasAV wrote:
Demiurge wrote:
I'm not sure I understand your point. I didn't put a value judgement on the experience of either platform. What are you saying?

The second paragraph was more of a response to Vita/iPad comparisons in general, not necessarily anything that you said specifically.

The first paragraph, however, was meant to be a more direct counterpoint to your comments on pricing differences. $100 is a pretty substantial gap, in my opinion.


That's fair. It's not as substantial a gap for me, but then again I spent $250 on a 3DS.

Anyone wanna buy a 3DS?

When I'm making comparisons between things like iPads and a Vita, I'm assuming used Apple stuff, not necessarily brand new. That brings you to parity.*

*Bought my iPad used when the iPad2 came out. Works great.

Certis wrote:
When I'm making comparisons between things like iPads and a Vita, I'm assuming used Apple stuff, not necessarily brand new. That brings you to parity.*

*Bought my iPad used when the iPad2 came out. Works great.

So a used iPad 1 and a brand new Vita = parity?

Sounds like apples and oranges to me.

Demiurge wrote:

Come on now, are you guys just talking yourselves out of buying one?
PS Vita WiFi is $250.
Uncharted: Golden Abyss is $50.
32gb Memory Card -- required if I want to download PSN games and not worry about space like on an iPad -- is an outrageous $100.

So that's $400 right there. We're approaching iPad territory, without the added media benefits of a Vita.

Personally, I got Uncharted free with my fully loaded first Edition Bundle here in Canad'eh but today you were getting an 8gb memory card and 20$ off a game at FutureShop. 280$ instead of 400$ if you can live with 8 gigs instead of 32.

A bunch of other places also have cool promotions like that on the Vita launch

The price is fine.