GWJ Conference Call Episode 260

Conference Call

RAGE, DOTA 2, The Binding of Issac, Board Games, Special Guest Jeff Cannata, Breaking The Status Quo, Your Emails and more!

This week Shawn, Julian and Cory are joined by Jeff Cannata from The Totally Rad Show! Thoughts on Rage, DOTA 2, The Binding of Issac, breaking the status quo and much more.

To contact us, email [email protected]! Send us your thoughts on the show, pressing issues you want to talk about or whatever else is on your mind. You can even send a 30 second audio question or comment (MP3 format please) if you're so inclined.

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Summoner Wars: Masters
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Show credits

Music credits: 

Intro/Outtro Music - Ian Dorsch, Willowtree Audioworks

Burning Jacob's Ladder - Mark Lanegan - RAGE - http://www.rage.com - 54:30

Menu / Trailer Theme - Dota 2 - http://www.dota2.com - 1:18:37

Comments

Careful Gorilla, you're going to get nominated as official show note taker.

And it's Renegade Ops.

There is no co-op mode in Ico on a second play-through. There is the translation of Yorda-speak (she doesn't really say anything worth knowing) and the mace that you can get on your first play-through is a super-extending light-saber on the second. Seriously.

Also, I'm really torn about Rage after reading Ben Kuchera's scathing review of it on Ars Technica and now Jeff thinks it's the bees knees. Confusing!

Nietzsche wrote:

Awesome, Jeff is one of my favourite podcast people, so this has made my day.

I thought Jeff was great on the show this week. He fit right in (especially with Rabbit), and I really hope he'll come back every couple months or so as his schedule might allow. It was funny hearing about his secret GWJ past; he's one of my favorite podcast personalities and I had no idea.

Redwing wrote:

I'd like to see more of Jeff on the podcast, it's been ages since I've heard someone sound genuinely excited about the games they're playing, it's refreshing. :)

Julian isn't honestly excited about games? I must have stepped into the Bizzaro podcast.

rabbit wrote:

Careful Gorilla, you're going to get nominated as official show note taker.

It's a real threat. I similarly went from grammar troll to managing editor.

You've been warned.

Awesome episode, was great hearing how well Jeff fits in with the crew.

I rarely comment, but I've convinced one of my coworkers to listen through you'se guy'ses board game discussion. He's listened to the show before, but always kinda clocked out whenever the terms 'dice' and/or 'hex' are thrown about.

Now we're trying to figure out the game that has players ripping cards and writing on boards and such [Summoner Wars: Masters?].

I'm also surprised Jeff "I love loving things" Cannata was on the show. He's a solid guy. A bit hyperbolic, but really someone I look to whenever I feel like my jaded-knee jerkiness is getting a bit out of hand. I think when you get so inundated with something you cherish so much, it's really easy to be regularly turned off by it. It's even more surprising to listen [and watch] someone who is the polar opposite -- given how long Jeff has played games and been involved with the games industry/culture.

Dare I say, Jeff Cannata is weirdly cool for liking an abundance of stuff?

Anyway, great show, as always. I [try] writing about the gaming culture and I'm really interested in The Binding of Isaac. Still wondering if the game is genuinely fun with quirky views or if it's trying to be intentionally offensive and edgy.

Now we're trying to figure out the game that has players ripping cards and writing on boards and such [Summoner Wars: Masters?].

That one was Risk: Legacy. It'll be for sale in November.

Thanks for another great episode. Best gaming podcast out there, hands down.

I may not always agree with the games you guys dislike (I loved Infamous and Darksiders), but your recommendations are usually spot on. My sister-in-law's favorite board game is Risk. Your discussion of Risk: Legacy makes it sound pretty amazing and I'm really excited to get it for her for Christmas now. I think she'll really enjoy it.

garion333 wrote:

FYI: I don't believe linking to emulation is encouraged on the site.

Thanks for the nudge on the emulator link. Good catch. I'll be more careful with my URL selection in the future.

garion333 wrote:

And it's Renegade Ops. ;)

Edited and fixed both links in the original post. Much obliged.

rabbit wrote:

Careful Gorilla, you're going to get nominated as official show note taker.

Thanks, I appreciate the thought. Before bestowing any titles let's see if I can establish a pattern of summaries like the two I've managed to date.

wordsmythe wrote:

It's a real threat. I similarly went from grammar troll to managing editor.

You've been warned.

Heheh, that's funny. Congrats, I think.

AUs_TBirD wrote:
Elysium wrote:
Why do you guys say "Right" so much?
In the episode 259 I counted 178 times anyone said "Right". Don't get me wrong I love your guy's podcast; However, I am a new listener and not up to speed on this show's schtick. Is this some sort of running joke on the podcast?

It's a legitimate point -- honestly I've never thought about it or noticed. Probably one of those things where once you hear it's happening you can't un-hear it.

It's something we can work on.

With a little bit of attention, it can be fixed easily by replacing every instance of "right" with "wrong."

How about, "eh?"

Summoner Wars: Master Set purchased. I've been hearing good things about the game for weeks, listening to the podcast has convinced me to pull the trigger.

Turbodano wrote:

Risk legacy sounds exactly what I want as an Adult. I will make people play with me.

Given how the game works, I've been wondering whether it made more sense to own one copy of the game to play with everyone or, if playing regularly with a few different groups, to have a separate copy for each group. It seems like a lot of what makes this game cool is the ability to build a lasting record of events for a specific group of players, not for myself vs. various opponents.

complexmath wrote:
Turbodano wrote:

Risk legacy sounds exactly what I want as an Adult. I will make people play with me.

Given how the game works, I've been wondering whether it made more sense to own one copy of the game to play with everyone or, if playing regularly with a few different groups, to have a separate copy for each group. It seems like a lot of what makes this game cool is the ability to build a lasting record of events for a specific group of players, not for myself vs. various opponents.

I think the main thing is to have a continuing game with the same people. It's not about the game's owner, it's about personalizing through playing with people. Or so I gather.

With regards to Risk Legacy, are there any plans for future expansion packs so that after the 20 games or so that it takes to reach the end condition, you can pick up more packs and evolve the game further?

Xeknos wrote:

With regards to Risk Legacy, are there any plans for future expansion packs so that after the 20 games or so that it takes to reach the end condition, you can pick up more packs and evolve the game further?

I don't feel like Rob Davio had anything like that in the works when I talked to him, but that was a while ago. It seemed to me that the map would be a bit crowded if you added more after that.

wordsmythe wrote:
Xeknos wrote:

With regards to Risk Legacy, are there any plans for future expansion packs so that after the 20 games or so that it takes to reach the end condition, you can pick up more packs and evolve the game further?

I don't feel like Rob Davio had anything like that in the works when I talked to him, but that was a while ago. It seemed to me that the map would be a bit crowded if you added more after that.

Ah, gotcha. I wasn't sure exactly how much it changed after each play, but I could see 20 being the cutoff before things started getting too rowdy. I suppose my question at that point would be "is it still a game you want to play once it's reached that end condition?"

Xeknos wrote:
wordsmythe wrote:
Xeknos wrote:

With regards to Risk Legacy, are there any plans for future expansion packs so that after the 20 games or so that it takes to reach the end condition, you can pick up more packs and evolve the game further?

I don't feel like Rob Davio had anything like that in the works when I talked to him, but that was a while ago. It seemed to me that the map would be a bit crowded if you added more after that.

Ah, gotcha. I wasn't sure exactly how much it changed after each play, but I could see 20 being the cutoff before things started getting too rowdy. I suppose my question at that point would be "is it still a game you want to play once it's reached that end condition?"

Seemed that way to me, but it would be interestingly unique from other copies.

I'm confused about Risk Legacy; After you're done ripping up all the cards and defacing the game board, how do you play it? Can it still be played after everything was destroyed, or is it only good for a limited number of plays before you have to go buy another copy?

Full disclosure: I'm a guy who couldn't even play Pictionary because I didn't want to use up the drawing pads, and any proprietary chit-tracking sheets that require actual writing on stay in the box and replaced with scrap paper when actually playing. So yeah, the notion of intentionally ripping up cards and taking permanent markers to game boards strikes me as the kind of thing that kids who have no sense of the worth of things do.

The idea of a game built around that doesn't enrage me, it just puzzles and terrifies me. (You mean I'm done with this card? I just rip it up and throw it out? Forever? That's a long time, you know. Maybe I could just set it aside for now and not use it next time?)

My understanding is that you get somewhere between 10-20 plays out of the cards and board before they're no longer modifiable.

Also, since the changes to the board are permanent, it's not like you can't keep playing after all the cards are gone. The board just won't change any more: all the bonuses and modifiers are already out there.

Hbi2k has it right.

If I were to get this game, I can foresee myself making liberal use of a photocopier.

Seriously, I'm like Mr. Cannata; I never put stickers in the sticker books I got as a child. I had a box of 64 crayolas that remained untouched for years, while I colored with old discarded crayon nubs that my mother brought back from her job as an elementary school teacher's aid. Recently I gave my daughter coloring books that I had bought as a child and never used because I knew that once I used them they'd be gone.

The concept of what is essentially a one-time-use board game (as in the original, in-the-box game is playable exactly once) is not something I can see doing. It's like playing Carcassonne with a tube of epoxy to keep the tiles from moving around. Can't see myself doing it.

I'm glad other people will enjoy it, but I do not have the proper disposition to enjoy it myself.

I'm not as obsessive with my toys as Thomas, and even I couldn't be convinced to buy and play a boardgame that's designed to be destroyed in that way. It's like the boardgame equivalent of the single, permanent save slot in Resident Evil: The Mercenaries 3D that attracted so much ire.

I get that you can keep playing with all the modifiers and everything already on the board, but isn't one of the main mechanics and sources of fun in the game the laying down of those modifiers?

Well, yes, there's all that, too.

With Risk Legacy, I'm less concerned with the built-in destruction of the game material -- it's not like there's a dearth of board games that don't require that level of permanence -- and more concerned with how much the game relies upon it to be interesting.

Are the game mechanics still interesting enough on their own, isolated within an individual playthrough, to pique my interest for further sessions with the game, or does the game's long-term viability rest entirely on the modification of the play space?

Does the game only engage you in the whole, when you take in the entire experience of multiple Risk Legacy playthroughs, and leave you comparatively cold in the moment of actually playing it?

OzymandiasAV wrote:

With Risk Legacy, I'm less concerned with the built-in destruction of the game material -- it's not like there's a dearth of board games that don't require that level of permanence -- and more concerned with how much the game relies upon it to be interesting.

Are the game mechanics still interesting enough on their own, isolated within an individual playthrough, to pique my interest for further sessions with the game, or does the game's long-term viability rest entirely on the modification of the play space?

Does the game only engage you in the whole, when you take in the entire experience of multiple Risk Legacy playthroughs, and leave you comparatively cold in the moment of actually playing it?

What you're ultimately left with is a game of Black Ops where the map is covered in fingerprints and interesting strategic wrinkles.

doubtingthomas396 wrote:

Can it still be played after everything was destroyed

ClockworkHouse wrote:

I couldn't be convinced to buy and play a boardgame that's designed to be destroyed in that way

OzymandiasAV wrote:

With Risk Legacy, I'm less concerned with the built-in destruction of the game material

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/Tx0WJ.jpg)

Without having played it, here is, to the best of my knowledge, how Risk Legacy works contra other board games:

Other board games: Buy the board game. It is static, finished and ready to be played.

Risk Legacy: Buy the seed of a board game. After a couple dozen sessions, a board evolves that is unique from every other RL board out there and in which you are personally invested. It is now static, finished and can continue to be played, pregnant with your history with that board.

Yes, part of the playing RL is creating that board, but when you've exhausted the creation aspect, you aren't left with a destroyed and useless board. Like wordsmythe said, you've now got a completed and unique Risk board that you can keep playing Risk on, like every other copy of Risk you've ever owned.