Cleaning Up Thunder Bluff

It is by the goodness of God that in our country we have those three unspeakably precious things: freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, and the prudence never to practice either of them. -- Mark Twain

Massively multiplayer environments of all sorts are under attack from within. Gankers and vultures of all sorts litter the landscape of any MMO that allows for player-vs-player combat, we have griefers a-plenty for the ones that don't. Unless you're playing Neopets, online servers are full of foul-mouthed, racist junk-monkeys. The hate-filled miasma they spatter around them has reached the point where many people who could be on those services won't go, and those who do brave it won't go without a posse and riot gear. Virtual community sites, blogs, message boards and lists spawn their own sort of virulent, cruel muck with moderators scrambling to keep things scrubbed down to a socially acceptable level.

Is this the brave new digital world? Why do we put up with this? What do we do to stop it?

First, I think it might help to back off a bit and get rid of some loaded words. I do not believe this is in any sense in the same realm as a physical attack, or even a face-to-face verbal attack. But there are those out there who have had their personal lives attacked. And while there's no physical components, finding out someone has photoshopped pornographic photos of your mother and broadly disseminated them as Kathy Sierra did or even just finding that someone has hijacked your Xbox LIVE account is definitely is not something to just write off as "boys will be boys".

Where the line can be drawn between those types of issues and being told to bend over and face the Warthog so someone can simulate a sexual act with you in a game is very fuzzy. A lot of the words we can use to describe this have too much baggage to them, and people get caught up in that rather than the issue. We need a noun that isn't so loaded. I'm going to use the word "assault" to describe the situation. Assaulting others with just words is well defined and documented, especially in a sexual context. You can also assault someone with images on a screen. Both of those seem to apply most closely to the situation. Look at the legal definition of assault in most jurisdictions, as well as the term harassment.

It's not just the graphically-oriented virtual environments. Anyone who's ever been caught up in an old-fashioned early '90s newslist war can tell you predatory users have been around since acoustic couplers and they don't require shiny pixels to do their dirty work. These people have figured out how to make sticks and stones out of their words. Anyplace where people interact online is full of all sorts of behavior that would get you in deep trouble in real life. Why do we put up with it online?

People treating each other like this isn't "just the way it is." Unless your office environment is criminally dysfunctional, I bet you don't have to worry about being shivved by the CEO and having your new shoes taken off your dead body on the way to the coffee machine in the morning just because they match his suit better than the ones he has and he's four steps higher up the org chart. If you sent an email to one of your customers or co-workers that just said "M.I.L.F.?" or asked her for pictures of her boobs you can guess what would be coming next. It's not just work; if you pulled any of these stunts in a bar or other social gathering you'd be facing consequences there, too. If these same people are functioning in the real world, they have the basic skills to not act like jerks online.

We can speculate about the technical issues and blame the systems, but in the end that's not the core problem. There's always a bigger hack, to mangle a phrase from Quigon Jin. Hacks or strategies that allow predatory players to assault others aren't new. My own personal encounter with it being used in a predatory fashion was in a MUD I used to hang out on over 10 years ago. Or you can read an account of one on another MUD. Whether you're talking about giving someone a virtual roofie or the older, cruder VoodooDoll hack approach there's always going to be someone misusing any angle they can.

They aren't built into the systems for malevolent reasons. Someone doesn't just decide to make sure there's a huge back door with a neon sign that says, "Hackers enter here". VoodooDoll and other sorts of puppet commands were a part of the default command set of several of the old MOO/MUD systems. They were designed for system admins to help users out of jams by simply moving the character using the game's system rather than the risky business of twiddling around in that avatar/account's code. It was the user who found a way to invoke that command out of context that was the problem here.

Turning the online systems into everyone's nanny isn't the answer, either. I think they need to do their part, but we can't expect them to do it all. Think about how we handle other large scale interactions with rude people like driving. We have a fairly complete set of rules that describe how everyone is supposed to act behind the wheel, and you have to prove you know what it is to drive. Add a couple state troopers camped out on an overpass with a radar gun to keep drivers who follow them from the worst depredations safe from the rude little punks whose parents who bought them that ugly little imposter-rocket that just whizzed by you 20 m.p.h. over the speed limit, or that guy in the continent-sized SUV who is firmly convinced he does in fact own the road. The online systems need to have cops and their speed traps, but the state troopers are few and far between, and they have one hand tied behind their back. I wish we could impose a license test to connect to the Internet, too, but we can't.

The fact that there's money involved in this doesn't give anyone carte blanche. You pay for the privilege of driving too, but you don't expect the DMV to magically protect you from from the stench of a roofer's truck loaded with hot tar. So why do you expect Microsoft to protect you from all the smacktalking tweenage twits who plunked down their cash to play on Xbox LIVE too? It's like expecting the road itself to give out traffic tickets to drivers who flip you off.

We don't have to take online abuse. I wouldn't put up with it in the real world. I certainly wouldn't expect my child to. And yet, if I want to participate in most online environments, it's what I have to do. You can report people who abuse your character in most of these systems, but it's often virtually impossible to really get rid of the offenders. The online systems for dealing with player misbehavior are overloaded and they have to be as careful as they can that the person making the complaint isn't abusing that function and actually making it as a form of attack.

I don't have all the answers. But I do have a few things to think about here.

  • Designers need to think. If you're going to hand off an awesome amount of power like literally being able to control someone else's character like a Muppet within your system, then abuse of that power has to be addressed within the system. The same applies to killing each other, taking items from each other by force or by trade, or any other interaction allowed by the system between players. Even if it's a good feature in and of itself, more attention needs to be paid so that your cool player vs. player setup doesn't turn into the Infinite Fountain of Gankers.
  • Players need to think. They need to think about where they put their money, their effort, and just how they're going to deal with the line between this world and that one. This applies to both sides of this.
  • Society needs to think. This is a whole new ballgame, and just letting the digital worlds grow wild is not working. We cannot let the social mores of the online life be dictated by the technical savvy and predatory instincts of a subset of the users. It's becoming too important to the rest of us.

The mainstream is beginning to notice the current state of affairs. Slate had an article over two years ago when two of their 30-something writers tried to head off into Halo 2, one of the most populous games on Xbox LIVE. Most of the text of the article is their impression of the place as a cesspool full of foul-mouthed little brats. Things are getting more serious now. No one was really afraid that those two writers adding at 14-year-old to their Friends List was pedophilia as they suggested. But recently Wired reported an incident in the online environment Second Life that the Belgian police are investigating as a rape.

This isn't the Old West. Having our online environments held hostage to the black hats with the bigger guns is no way to build a digital frontier. Unless we want others to step in and make these decisions for us, we as a body of online participants need to find a new set of social structures that allow us all to interact with the maximum freedom but also with the maximum of safety.

If we wait for the new sheriff in town to fight this battle for us we might not like the town we're left with.

Comments

MoonDragon wrote:

At a risk of my thoughts getting lost in the sea of long posts, I've always dreamed of a simple solution to the privacy issue. Instead of building artificial walls that prevent people from doing stuff, focus on recording everything that goes on. That's one thing that information age has going for it. You want to control speeding? Install a chip that records the car's speed and uploads it to a cellphone station every 5 mins. Worried about people reading secrets? Instead of locking them with passwords that one keeps under the keyboard, log every single access to an asset. Worried about use of admin tools in a game? Log every single use of them.

Just the fact that you're being monitored by an all-seeing-eye will stop 90% of abuse all over the place. It will give people the good ol' fear of an omniscient god. And for those 10% that still won't play by the rules? Well, at least you'll know who they are. :)

Google the phrase "Quis Custodiet Custodes Ipsos". It means "who watches the watchers?", and the fact that it is in Latin should tell you how long this kind of idea has been around and how deep and darkly hideous its implementations have been.

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes no?

One of the reasons I like MMOs, as opposed to something Like BF2 or Counterstrike, is that I really can choose who I associate with.

I just Google WoW+Mature+Guild and I get 383,000 hits. Then I can choose one that fits my playing style.

Tactical Gamer has a WoW guild, and while I learned alot from them, it wasn't a good fit. GWJ Alliance is much friendlier, and has a great group of folks. I have also been hanging out with Alea iacta Est on the Horde side, quality people.

I've run with King's Army, Icon, Imminent, Prophecy of Ascension...many different styles, but in the end, there is no dearth of mature players with similar outlooks to ours here...it seems to me that selectively choosing who you associate with is a fairly easy way of managing your game experience.

wordsmythe wrote:
BlackSheep wrote:

I wrote "Will have stimulating intercourse for food." ... my little troll Kumrub

Just a thought: Perhaps you wouldn't have gotten into that argument if you had a less suggestive name.

Kumrub, while I see where you're taking this, is the first name that the random name generator spit at me (definitely no pun intended) and since I had little knowledge of the troll community and their naming techniques, I accepted the moniker.

Trachalio wrote:
I wrote "Will have stimulating intercourse for food."

Pun. Accidental or pre-planned?

p.s. Am I the only one that continually mistakes the title of this piece as "Cleaning Up Thunder Butt"?

If I say it was, everyone will think I'm covering tracks. If I say it wasn't, well, I might as well wipe by Thunder Butt with my English degree.

So... It was both.

Christmas 2005 I gave my grandchildren (my wife and I are raising 4) with accounts on Maplestory as a present, and started playing myself. Since I have been playing computer games since colossal cave days I was curious about mmorpgs. I have found playing the game to be very rewarding in reallife ways. It has given me valuable insights into the world of preteens and teens thus helping me to be a better parent. I have been able to influence others in good ways, I hope, both by example and through discussions and chats. My being so old has been a bit of a source of pride to the guild I am in as a mere member. There is no question that racist, sexist, foul language and overt sexuality are commonplace - but they exist in our community as well (maybe not in yours, lol). I imagine that all the mmorpgs are mirror worlds of our own, and they do give us opportunities to learn and experiment with interpersonal relations without the consequences in real life.

i can definitely understand not being happy about being attacked by someone online. Sitting in gadgetstan, eating cured ham steaks to regen HP cause a lvl ?? orc hunter tried to kill you on the way in to town and is now dealing with the guards at the gate and then having a lvl ?? troll rouge uncloak right in front of you just close enough to make it look like you're giving them a BJ. But from what i've seen online, its pretty easy to just move, they can't continue their attack if you won't sit still long enough to get into a suggestive position. if worse comes to worse, you could fear/frost or cloak and leave. If its a player on the same side as you, then /ignore "player" without the quotes is generally enough. If it continues after that, i know the Stormreaver GMs are pretty good about getting back to you when it comes to player abuse and harassment.

Hey you got a hit on Evil... great article "mom"

PAR

IsamuKusanagi wrote:

i can definitely understand not being happy about being attacked by someone online. Sitting in gadgetstan, eating cured ham steaks to regen HP cause a lvl ?? orc hunter tried to kill you on the way in to town and is now dealing with the guards at the gate and then having a lvl ?? troll rouge uncloak right in front of you just close enough to make it look like you're giving them a BJ. But from what i've seen online, its pretty easy to just move, they can't continue their attack if you won't sit still long enough to get into a suggestive position. if worse comes to worse, you could fear/frost or cloak and leave. If its a player on the same side as you, then /ignore "player" without the quotes is generally enough. If it continues after that, i know the Stormreaver GMs are pretty good about getting back to you when it comes to player abuse and harassment.

I'm a little confused.

i don't care what insults or threats anyone gives me online. i don't take them seriously at all. frankly people make a mountain out of a mole hill in this situation. People need to toughen up.

I took atheletics most of my childhood and into early adult life. There is no coddling there. You learn to grow a thick skin or you wont survive and thats how its meant to be. Because you have to be mentally tough as well as physically.

I see read these "lets all be victim" rants, and I thank god every day, growing up I learned to actually deal with conflict and verbal abuse.

I learned not to get depressed or scared, I learned to say "I'll show you!"

SexyBeast wrote:

i don't care what insults or threats anyone gives me online. i don't take them seriously at all. frankly people make a mountain out of a mole hill in this situation. People need to toughen up.

I took atheletics most of my childhood and into early adult life. There is no coddling there. You learn to grow a thick skin or you wont survive and thats how its meant to be. Because you have to be mentally tough as well as physically.

I see read these "lets all be victim" rants, and I thank god every day, growing up I learned to actually deal with conflict and verbal abuse.

I learned not to get depressed or scared, I learned to say "I'll show you!"

Well there you go then!

Coffee grinders and caffeinated lifeforms go together quite well.

SexyBeast wrote:

i don't care what insults or threats anyone gives me online. i don't take them seriously at all. frankly people make a mountain out of a mole hill in this situation. People need to toughen up.

I took atheletics most of my childhood and into early adult life. There is no coddling there. You learn to grow a thick skin or you wont survive and thats how its meant to be. Because you have to be mentally tough as well as physically.

I see read these "lets all be victim" rants, and I thank god every day, growing up I learned to actually deal with conflict and verbal abuse.

I learned not to get depressed or scared, I learned to say "I'll show you!"

I think being tough enough to absorb these kinds of idiocy online is the first step in the right direction. This article deals with something else though. Suppose that you succeed in adapting to a difficult environment. You have the capability to survive. What next? You should start thinking about shaping the environment around you. Make it a safer and more pleasant place to be in, so that on top of your already impressive collection of survival skills, you have this additional barrier to keep yourself from harm. What this article is trying to discuss are the ways to shaping a more pleasant and, to an extent, safer environment online. I can understand where you're coming from, but we're a little greedier here.

Thirteenth wrote:
SexyBeast wrote:

i don't care what insults or threats anyone gives me online. i don't take them seriously at all. frankly people make a mountain out of a mole hill in this situation. People need to toughen up.

I took atheletics most of my childhood and into early adult life. There is no coddling there. You learn to grow a thick skin or you wont survive and thats how its meant to be. Because you have to be mentally tough as well as physically.

I see read these "lets all be victim" rants, and I thank god every day, growing up I learned to actually deal with conflict and verbal abuse.

I learned not to get depressed or scared, I learned to say "I'll show you!"

I think being tough enough to absorb these kinds of idiocy online is the first step in the right direction. This article deals with something else though. Suppose that you succeed in adapting to a difficult environment. You have the capability to survive. What next? You should start thinking about shaping the environment around you. Make it a safer and more pleasant place to be in, so that on top of your already impressive collection of survival skills, you have this additional barrier to keep yourself from harm. What this article is trying to discuss are the ways to shaping a more pleasant and, to an extent, safer environment online. I can understand where you're coming from, but we're a little greedier here.

Personally, I think this is the case even before you 'toughen up'. The Terms of Service you agree to are there for a reason, and it's not to be ignored by people just because they have a strong yen for being rude. I look at the WoW forums as a perfect example of this, especially the recent thread between Tseric and a nameless, faceless troll where Tseric's final post near the end of the thread was to call the thread concluded due to invocation of Godwin's Law. He was upfront and frank throughout, and absolutely, 100% spot on. However, to save space, it boiled down to 'In a player base of nearly 3 million people in the US, 99.9% of them are awesome people, who are generally helpful, friendly and caring. Sadly, that last .1% is louder, more obnoxious, and prone to resort to flaming, arrogance, and other childish tactics in a faiiled attempt to get the game to move in a direction they want, and as a result, countless people lose out on the good times they might have with the 99.9% due to this overly vocal .1%'.

However, it's a problem that I don't think is ever going to go away. The internet gives a layer of anonymity that people look at as being a means to do whatever they want, with no actual repercussions. It's quite sad, really, but I don't think it's going to change. There's a spark in human nature that causes people to do things in a self centered manner. All the worst examples of behavior in an MMO outlined by momgamer show this pretty clearly, I think.

It's funny.. I considered myself an excellent Wolfenstein:ET player until I got to one server that my friend recommended.. and my first few rounds were awful.. my team was basically being "spawn camped" by endless mortar barrage and we were effectively pinned down without the ability to get out and effectively counterattack and break the mortar spam.. Several players on my team constantly complained that we were being camped and the offending players should be banned for spawn camping.. then an admin informed us that this tactic was part of the game and we should break out ourselves.. aka "get better"

It was true.. a few rounds later and a few less whiny people later.. the Axis finally got it together and I found myself a wonderful home base to play ET for a whole year or so at. Lesson learned.. I simply had to toughen up.. get better.. and deal with the camping.

SexyBeast wrote:

i don't care what insults or threats anyone gives me online. i don't take them seriously at all. frankly people make a mountain out of a mole hill in this situation. People need to toughen up.

I took atheletics most of my childhood and into early adult life. There is no coddling there. You learn to grow a thick skin or you wont survive and thats how its meant to be. Because you have to be mentally tough as well as physically.

I see read these "lets all be victim" rants, and I thank god every day, growing up I learned to actually deal with conflict and verbal abuse.

I learned not to get depressed or scared, I learned to say "I'll show you!"

In some ways, I totally agree with you. But on the other hand surely you also learned the importance of good sportsmanship - something that is completely lacking in too many MMORPGs. I too learned to take harsh criticism from my coaches, but I was also taught to say good game, not harass other players or use abusive smack talk, etc. I remember in a 4th-grade basketball game I tripped an opposing player just out of spite - while the ref didn't catch it my coach did and I got reamed.

In other words, I can understand why so many older gamers get so frustrated at the total lack of civility in gaming. I certainly don't think it's acting like a victim when you compete hard but in a fair manner that respects your opponent, with the only expectation is that you receive some respect back. At 32 I don't really want to hear comments like "your mom's my epic mount" from some snot-nosed punk.

But the only real answers I know of are to seek out mature guilds and offer a "good game" even if you're opponent throws back the most racist, fithy vitriol imaginable.

jdzappa wrote:

At 32 I don't really want to hear comments like "your mom's my epic mount" from some snot-nosed punk.

Yeah, it's really only funny when it comes from a friend.

Idealism is for college kids and fairy tales.

Lets be realisitic. Are people on the internet going to stop being assholes? No. Even if you take away the anonimity, there are still people who are just c*cks.

So we've established that you can't stop people from being assholes. So what can we do? This is the piont we start coming up with solutions.

Trying to get people to stop being assholes is futile. It's just wasted energy.

Most games provide some means of taking care of those types of people anyway. Every mmo I have ever played has an ignore function, a language filter, and as a last resort a means of reporting the offending player to the proper authorities. People are assholes even without the anonymity of the interwebs. Take a look out your window when driving down the freeway, you see that guy who drove all the way up the left hand side of the freeway to cut in front of the huge line of people on the right waiting their turn to exit? Asshole. How about at the grocery store, the guy currently being checked out arguing with the cashier over a 3 cent price difference for 20 minutes with 15 people standing in line behind him? Asshole. Guy talking on his phone during a movie? Asshole. Parents with screaming kid at a quiet restaurant who do nothing about it? Assholes. In case you having guessed it by now you are pretty much surrounded by assholes. Be it on the web or in the real lifes.

The key in my opinion is to just learn to move beyond that. If you let these types of people get to you you are pretty much giving them the power to ruin your day. Some people are incapable of comprehending the fact that the world does not revolve around them. Ignore them and move on, or in a good game w/ FFA pvps... Kill them. Yay PvP!

Late late late reply, sorry.

Solution to MMOG griefing: Old Icelandic-style Outlawdom. Instead of banning, turn the character name solid black or something and make everything in the game hostile towards it - including members of your own faction. For every character on your account. Once it's impossible to do any quests because the quest givers won't respond, once you can't walk near a town without all the guards mobbing you, once your guildmates' Area-of-Effect attacks start hurting you, the game probably isn't going to be a lot of fun. If anyone can loot the money from your corpse, you can bet even your "friends" - the other 14-year-old mindset losers who think teabagging fallen enemies is the height of elegance and sophisticated humor - will be lining up to steal everything they can from you.

DataShade wrote:

Late late late reply, sorry.

Solution to MMOG griefing: Old Icelandic-style Outlawdom. Instead of banning, turn the character name solid black or something and make everything in the game hostile towards it - including members of your own faction. For every character on your account. Once it's impossible to do any quests because the quest givers won't respond, once you can't walk near a town without all the guards mobbing you, once your guildmates' Area-of-Effect attacks start hurting you, the game probably isn't going to be a lot of fun. If anyone can loot the money from your corpse, you can bet even your "friends" - the other 14-year-old mindset losers who think teabagging fallen enemies is the height of elegance and sophisticated humor - will be lining up to steal everything they can from you.

They had something just like this in UO. It was a badge of honor. I still remember the early days when that guy walked in to town on the Napa server and began killing everyone, including the guards who tried to stop him. I assume he was an early user of a cable modem, allowing him a leg up on everyone else in that game. When the flurry of activity started, I was caught in a stampede of lag attempting to expeditiously retreat from the bank. When I finally did get to flee, it was in ghost form.

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