NFL 2011 Week 5

Fedaykin98 wrote:

Speaking of which...what do you non-Houstonian, serious football fans think of Matt Schaub? He gets ripped by callers on the radio here a lot, but apart from the unfortunate tendency to always throw his picks at the worst possible time, I think he's pretty solid. To use Legion's standards, he'll never be tier 1, but I think he could be tier 2.

I'm not really a big fan, but he's done far better than Carr. Hopefully, our next starting QB (some day) will be a bit better than either. Possibly mobile, since Schaub looks like he's wearing cement shoes out there. :lol:

I like Schaub. A lot actually. Not sure if I'd build my team around him, but he sits in some middle ground that's above Orton, imho.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

Speaking of which...what do you non-Houstonian, serious football fans think of Matt Schaub? He gets ripped by callers on the radio here a lot, but apart from the unfortunate tendency to always throw his picks at the worst possible time, I think he's pretty solid. To use Legion's standards, he'll never be tier 1, but I think he could be tier 2.

Are people seriously clamoring for Matt Leinart?

iaintgotnopants wrote:
Fedaykin98 wrote:

Speaking of which...what do you non-Houstonian, serious football fans think of Matt Schaub? He gets ripped by callers on the radio here a lot, but apart from the unfortunate tendency to always throw his picks at the worst possible time, I think he's pretty solid. To use Legion's standards, he'll never be tier 1, but I think he could be tier 2.

Are people seriously clamoring for Matt Leinart?

Other than horny drunk coeds, no.

No, people are just trashing Schaub and saying he's not an "elite" quarterback, with no thought of who we'd get otherwise.

Few quarterbacks are truly elite. Brady and Manning have been, sure. Who else, that's currently playing? Seriously, these people call in and drop this knowledge on us like they've just cracked the code to cure cancer. Great, Schaub's not "elite". What do you want to do about it?

I don't think any of the fans think he's a world beater, but his measurables are very good. You can definitely get to the playoffs with him, even though we haven't yet - our offense under him has almost always scored enough points to win. Now that our defense is in order, it's really a playoffs or bust year. I just hope that if we do get in, we don't lay an egg in the first game just because we've never been there before.

All of which is way premature to discuss, but hey, it's the Internet, not the locker room.

I think that list of QBs who have and haven't won the Super Bowl is proof you don't need an "elite" QB to go all the way. It's becoming harder not to these days. The impact of RBs has lessened and that's been a big part of this. Personally I'd love it if the NFL would crack down on HGH and steroids in general. I have a hard time believing the game wouldn't be better if 300lbs linebackers weren't faster than HBs.

Rogers is fairly elite.. But all in all Football is still a very team sport.. QB is of course highly important but even that can be overcome with a strong team.

Having a sub par QB makes it that much harder to overcome of course.

*Legion* wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:

Dead on Legion.. which is why I think the Eagles gave up on Kolb.. Kolb once saving grace is that he might end up being like Brees.. but its a stretch...and not one the Eagles apparently wanted to continue to invest in...

Agreed. I think Kolb has enough potential that he's worth having a team investing in him, as the Cardinals are. But the Eagles did not seem to want to be the ones to make that investment. And if you don't think he's your guy, move on.

But I'm afraid they are now in the very dangerous "No future QB" era.. Vick will not last the season at the current rate.. he's going to be on IR by Week 7.

I agree with Leap that the Eagles have been investing in a "win now" (or at least, "win soon") mode, and I agree with you that one result of that is that the team does not have a "future franchise QB" on the roster. And it's worth pointing out that Mike Vick is 31 years old already. You wonder, between age eventually sapping some of that agility that makes him special, and injuries, how long he will remain an upper-tier performing QB.

They decided that they didn't want to hold onto Kolb (which was perfectly fine because with Vick there, they weren't going to play him now, and it's time for Kolb to play now), but it will soon be time for them to start looking for a new QB.

The good thing is, recent history says that unless you draft a Tebow, you can draft a rookie QB in the first round and make him a starter the same year. There is less need to draft-and-develop these days, and the rookie wage scale means you can actually draft a 1st round QB without destroying your team finances.

*Wince*

Ouch, but true. Tebow had no business being drafted in the first round, but McDaniels panicked and, unfortunately, that was his one decision that the Broncos fan-base bought into.

Brady
Rodgers
Manning
Rivers
Brees
Roethlisberger
Vick

Those are the 'rich' QBs. Then you hit the upper middle class, which is where Schaub comes in I think with guys like:

Flacco
Schaub
Romo
Pieface
Ryan
Hasselbeck

With Freeman and Stafford creeping in. Like I said, to me he is somewhere in that upper-mid 8-15 spot range. You can make a run with a guy like Schaub if you have good pieces around him, but he can't be one of your top 3 guys and expect to go to a SB. I agree with you Fed, you can complain about him, but who are you going to get to replace him that is better?

(Cutler intentionally left out!)

Fedaykin98 wrote:

Few quarterbacks are truly elite. Brady and Manning have been, sure. Who else, that's currently playing?

Aaron Rodgers. And that is where my active elite QB list ends. And Manning was starting to fall out of that class even before the injury, just from age. I don't expect he will return all the way to the top again, even if he does come back.

I think of Matt Schaub as a borderline 2nd tier QB. I don't think he has peaked - I could easily see him as a guy who is better in his early 30s than in his late 20s.

I think any Texan fan bashing Schaub is a certified moron. If you want something to piss and moan about, start with your defensive tackles, which have been a joke the franchise's entire existence, and are a big reason why a team that has often looked good on paper has been shoved around in real games. (Of course, they are now in a 3-4 transition, which is just as well, as they've never had a legitimate 4-3 inside lineman).

What we hear most about Schaub on the sports-talk shows is how he isn't a fiery leader, doesn't inspire players, and makes bad decisions. Some people even try to say that VY would have been a different QB if he had come to Houston. I think picking Mario was the right choice, and I think Schaub has done a good job up to this point.

The defense has been a problem for years, as mentioned above, and I'm not sure Wade's "Small NT" philosophy is going to fix the interior the way people think. We need a Suh in the middle to keep from getting gashed the way we have been all season. J.J. Watt and Antonio Smith have been surprisingly good at DE, and Super Mario is finally settling into his new role as OLB. We've benched Kareem Jackson finally, and our LB core is pretty solid, even with Cushing off the juice now. Our one glaring weakness is giving up big chunks of yards up the gut.

bighoppa wrote:

What we hear most about Schaub on the sports-talk shows is how he isn't a fiery leader

Nothing is more overrated than "fiery leader". Ask every 49er that played with the usually silent Joe Montana.

Some people even try to say that VY would have been a different QB if he had come to Houston.

He would have. In Tennessee, he got away with his girl arm for a little while because the team's offense wasn't built to push the ball downfield to an Andre Johnson.

In Houston, I think after yet another underthrown interception, Andre would have snapped and Finnegan'd VY:

IMAGE(http://s4.nextround.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/johnson-finnegan.gif)

Just in case all of Houston didn't adore Andre before that, that pushed it over the top.

I agree that the callers are morons. Schaub hasn't been part of the problem. Could you wish for a better, more exciting QB? No doubt. Schaub doesn't excite. But he does score.

LeapingGnome wrote:

Brady
Rodgers
Manning
Rivers
Brees
Roethlisberger
Vick

Those are the 'rich' QBs. Then you hit the upper middle class, which is where Schaub comes in I think with guys like:

I agree with the list except for Vick. Winning, above all else, puts you on the list. And Vick is no winner. Like 3 playoff appearances and 2 wins over a 9 year career? Nope, not nearly good enough.

Elliottx wrote:

Falcons - Trap game for the Pack. Falcons are angry and have their backs against the wall.

I thought the definition of a trap game was where you overlook your opponent and start thinking about the following weeks game....

I doubt the Packers are overlooking the Falcons on Sunday night for their week 6 game at home vs the Rams.

IT'S A TRAP!

Oh wait, I should have said that 5 minutes after kickoff.

LeapingGnome wrote:

Sheared, you think Denver has a better QB than Orton ready to play?

No. But until they sign Orton to a long term contract, all they are doing is trying to mold him into an NFL QB for whatever team signs him next year. I'd rather see them admit this season is a bust, play Tebow the rest of the season, show the fans what they've got (and learn themselves), and then they can draft whoever they draft this next off-season, and most likely have the support of the fans when they do it.

sheared wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:

Sheared, you think Denver has a better QB than Orton ready to play?

No. But until they sign Orton to a long term contract, all they are doing is trying to mold him into an NFL QB for whatever team signs him next year. I'd rather see them admit this season is a bust, play Tebow the rest of the season, show the fans what they've got (and learn themselves), and then they can draft whoever they draft this next off-season, and most likely have the support of the fans when they do it.

Until the Broncos win another Super Bowl, the "fans" will always be clamoring for the next QB. It's because this state is still the Cult of Elway.

Barry Sanders to replace Hank Williams Jr. for the MNF intro. No, he won't be singing.

Saints
Buccaneers
Packers
Lions

Wildcard: Texans at home over Raiders

Saints vs. Panthers. Just because the Panthers are playing better these days than in the last few years, the Saints still take this game.

Buccaneers vs. 49ers. I just have no idea here, so I will go with the home team.

Packers vs. Falcons. Almost impossible to pick against Green Bay right now. Barring an Aaron Rodgers injury, this could be a back-to-back Superbowl winning team.

Bears vs. Lions. In a close one. I think the Lions defense can give Cutler enough of a hard time to get this for the Lions, but I just have a gut feeling that their unbeaten streak will end this week.

Jets at Patriots. New England needs to find a way to keep opponents to under 400 yards of offense per game. I think they do it this week, but I don't think the Jets have an elite team, either.

Saints
49ers
Packers
Lions

Raiders over Texans

Jayhawker wrote:

Raiders over Texans

You shut your whore mouth!

So, does anyone else see the insane number of passing yards recently as a bit of a problem with the game? I know the big plays are exciting, and who doesn't love a nice high scoring game, but with such a strong emphasis on the passing game, so many attempts at protecting defenseless receivers and so many penalties for daring to be where the receiver wants to be, it feels like defense is something that is quickly going away.

I feel like Bill Polian did what he could to ensure his team would be a winner by tweaking rules to get passing to be a bigger factor in general, lessening the importance of a strong running game. That, in turn, weakened demand for smash-mouth defenses and changed the value of line play from forming a wall on defense to forming a wall on offense. It also led to post-catch tackles on receivers being the most important part of a defensive plan, since the windows in which a defender can make his presence known to the receiver is in the 5 yards from line of scrimmage and the half-second or so when the ball is in catching range. Of course, this led to more high-speed collisions and (seemingly) more head injuries and penalties.

Now we have a quarter of the season finished, and there is serious talk about more than one player breaking a record for passing yardage, and the best runners in the league don't seem to be doing well. Scoring is way, way up, and defenses are getting shredded left and right without one of the best Quarterbacks even playing. How much of this is due to a lack of off-season training, and how much is just the way the game is now?

Carolina is passing for a lot of yards and Carolina isn't winning.

Passing is the way things are in the NFL right now, but you still need to be able to run the ball to win (see: Chicago).

That said, pass interference rules are generally stupid and I don't know how Revis gets away with all the holding he does, but whatevs.

While the rules are definitely slanted towards the passing game, this year isn't really fair to use as a point of comparison; the short offseason has really screwed things up and I'm not really taking stuff too seriously yet. I tend to believe one of the reason passing numbers are so high is that defenses haven't had nearly the practice time they've traditionally been used to with long offseason team workouts, and there are more coverage breakdowns because of it.

I agree with the Milkman. Lets see what numbers teams are putting in weeks 10-14 before we panic that the NFL is off the deep end.

Besides, what rules were put in this off season that people think affected passing so much? I don't remember anything major.

garion333 wrote:
sheared wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:

Sheared, you think Denver has a better QB than Orton ready to play?

No. But until they sign Orton to a long term contract, all they are doing is trying to mold him into an NFL QB for whatever team signs him next year. I'd rather see them admit this season is a bust, play Tebow the rest of the season, show the fans what they've got (and learn themselves), and then they can draft whoever they draft this next off-season, and most likely have the support of the fans when they do it.

Until the Broncos win another Super Bowl, the "fans" will always be clamoring for the next QB. It's because this state is still the Cult of Elway.

I certainly agree with this, but if they draft a QB in the 1st round next year without having played Tebow this year, then I think half the fans are still Tebow fanatics (heck they could be still if they play him), but if he plays and sucks, the Broncos have to put up with much less grief from the fan base if they do draft a QB.

LeapingGnome wrote:

I agree with the Milkman. Lets see what numbers teams are putting in weeks 10-14 before we panic that the NFL is off the deep end.

Besides, what rules were put in this off season that people think affected passing so much? I don't remember anything major.

I don't think there were any new rules this season towards pushing the passing game - just the increased focus on preventing lasting damage. That by itself could be making defensive players' jobs harder, since they need to hit hard enough to take a big guy running full speed down to a stop, but not hard enough to get either player killed.

I can understand not getting too worried just yet. Brady to Welker is a combination that has been seen for a few years now, and they are excellent players. I was always under the impression that a good passing game was something that tended to take a lot of communication and practice between the QB and the WR; so Brady to Welker isn't a shock. Every team with a new QB throwing to a new WR for 300+ yard games is a big shock to me, and that is why it catches my attention. I was really happy to see the Patriots running more this past weekend, since it gave me some hope that the pass-happy league is just a temporary thing, but I don't think one team changing things up for one week is a beacon for the future.

I just looked at the Seahawks injury report for this week and just like last season, I'm going to start calling for the firing of the training and medical staff. It sure seems like every single year the Seahawks are one of the most injured teams in the league and the medical staff doesn't even have Hasselbeck's back to point at for the excessive numbers.

Has there ever been a case where a team publicly cleaned house of their medical staff? Is it possible for the Seahawks to steal the Phoenix Suns medical staff since they're not doing anything this year?

sheared wrote:

I certainly agree with this, but if they draft a QB in the 1st round next year without having played Tebow this year, then I think half the fans are still Tebow fanatics (heck they could be still if they play him), but if he plays and sucks, the Broncos have to put up with much less grief from the fan base if they do draft a QB.

They'll put Tebow in again, like they did last year. They're just going to wait until they're completely out of contention. The division is still crap, so there's a chance for them to make a run. (I don't believe they will, but SD has only beaten crappy teams and Oakland is still managing to be Oakland at time. It's wide open. Oh, right, the Chiefs. They don't count this year.)