Sexual Morality and Ethics Catch-All

Do y'all want to hang out with me? Maybe I just live in a bizarre freak festival, but there is no shortage of good stores, fetish shops, shows, events. They are right on main streets, and part of the community. But it might just be that the cities imediatly around Detroit and Detroit are hyper liberal. Or am I the freak who will go to gay bars? Who will shop in those stores?

krev82 wrote:

In Halifax (also Ottawa) there is a sex toy/book store that is also extremely devoted to sexual education. You can listen to the employees doing a wonderful job of filling in where parents and public education have failed.

A lot of harm could be avoided if our culture would drop the whole taboo on discussions about sex, thankfully it does seem to be eroding although only slowly.

Babeland, an upscale toy shop with a few branches around the city is the same way. It's a great contrast to the sleazy peep-show joints that used to aggregate around Times Square.

Phoenix Rev wrote:

In Phoenix, we have a string of adult stores called the "Castle Boutique." They also operate in other states. Last Saturday night, I stopped in my local Castle Boutique to pick up a few items since Rubb Ed will be here over the Labor Day weekend (go me!). Anyway, the store is divided into two sections and covers about 2400 feet of space. The back half was nothing but videos. The rest of the space was broken into various sections: condoms, lubricants, sex toys, clothing (or lack there of), books on sex, board games, scents, and a rather tasteful whips and chains section (complete with fuzzy handcuffs). In the center of the store was the cashiers station with two late twenty-something guys answering questions and ringing up sales.

Compare and contrast with my preferred adult store here in Seattle (Babeland, formerly Toys In Babeland). Now, admittedly, it's up on Capitol Hill, the 'gay neighbourhood', which is one of the most permissive areas in an already pretty permissive city.

That said, it's a brightly lit store with big windows that open onto a foot-traffic-heavy street surrounded by shops and bars. The staff are knowledgeable, friendly, and have told me that it's store policy for their staff to try as much of the stock as they are able to.

Far from a black featureless bag, they sell cloth totes with their name and logo on, and offer a 10% discount to anyone who brings a Babeland tote back with them. A few months ago, we went a little bit ker-azy in there, and dropped several hundred bucks on a myriad of items. We bought a tote and saved ourselves some money. I now carry that tote in my car with all the other totes, and routinely use it in grocery stores. So far, I've not noticed anyone acknowledging it, but I live in hope

Now that I think about it, I don't think they carry videos. Maybe there's the key dichotomy there - sex is wholesome, porn not so much.

There is a place exactly like that in Minneapolis called The Smitten Kitten. Well lit, clean, professional, and they have a decent selection of movies. Though they are all staff chosen, IIRC. So perhaps that has something to do with it. There's a pretty big LGBT/Sex-Positive community in the area, and a decent Sex-Positive podcast made here as well. As with most places (I assume) the city is diverse, accepting and quite Liberal, and the 'burbs are rigid and conservative.

Jonman wrote:
Phoenix Rev wrote:

In Phoenix, we have a string of adult stores called the "Castle Boutique." They also operate in other states. Last Saturday night, I stopped in my local Castle Boutique to pick up a few items since Rubb Ed will be here over the Labor Day weekend (go me!). Anyway, the store is divided into two sections and covers about 2400 feet of space. The back half was nothing but videos. The rest of the space was broken into various sections: condoms, lubricants, sex toys, clothing (or lack there of), books on sex, board games, scents, and a rather tasteful whips and chains section (complete with fuzzy handcuffs). In the center of the store was the cashiers station with two late twenty-something guys answering questions and ringing up sales.

Compare and contrast with my preferred adult store here in Seattle (Babeland, formerly Toys In Babeland). Now, admittedly, it's up on Capitol Hill, the 'gay neighbourhood', which is one of the most permissive areas in an already pretty permissive city.

That said, it's a brightly lit store with big windows that open onto a foot-traffic-heavy street surrounded by shops and bars. The staff are knowledgeable, friendly, and have told me that it's store policy for their staff to try as much of the stock as they are able to.

Far from a black featureless bag, they sell cloth totes with their name and logo on, and offer a 10% discount to anyone who brings a Babeland tote back with them. A few months ago, we went a little bit ker-azy in there, and dropped several hundred bucks on a myriad of items. We bought a tote and saved ourselves some money. I now carry that tote in my car with all the other totes, and routinely use it in grocery stores. So far, I've not noticed anyone acknowledging it, but I live in hope

Now that I think about it, I don't think they carry videos. Maybe there's the key dichotomy there - sex is wholesome, porn not so much.

Assuming it's the same Babeland as in NY (which seems like a safe assumption) there are a few videos, but they're a pretty minor portion of the store. One small shelf in the back, and a hot item or two like "Pirates" with related merchandise (Pirates themed toys).

Phoenix Rev wrote:

It's funny you should mention Montreal. Rubb Ed and I spent our honeymoon in Montreal and I remember the adult stores right next to restaurants and bars and convenience marts with plenty of posters and DVD covers in the windows that left little to the imagination. These were very visible from the public street and I am sure children passed by them every single day. I seriously doubt the children of Canadians are out-of-control sex maniacs compared to their U.S. counterparts (well, except for Rubb Ed, of course. ).

Mrs. Dim grew up in NYC. As a young kid, one day she was walking with her mom in the Times Square area. An adult theater had a huge banner up of a stark-naked woman, star of whichever movie they were showing. Mrs. Dim tugged on her mom's sleeve and said "MOM! Look!"

Mrs. Dim's quite-conservative mother attempted to distract her by pointing out something on the opposite side of the street, but she's nothing if not persistent. She stopped on the sidewalk, waited for her mom to turn towards her, and pointed firmly at the banner again, while uttering, in total shock:

"That lady isn't wearing any shoes!"

True story.

Should I regale you all with my mother's first encounter with a crack ho?

Phoenix Rev wrote:

stuff

This reminded me of something that I was going to post in this thread. The University of Minnesota recently established the Joycelyn Elders Chair in Sexual Health Education. "[T]he first of its kind in the nation to focus on sexuality education" (press release). There was some minor outrage over this. Not because of the subject matter. Not because Joycelyn Elders wanted kindergarteners to masturbate (that's sarcasm by the way). But, it was when people found out that Adam & Eve was one of the more than 275 donors.

iaintgotnopants wrote:
Phoenix Rev wrote:

stuff

This reminded me of something that I was going to post in this thread. The University of Minnesota recently established the Joycelyn Elders Chair in Sexual Health Education. "[T]he first of its kind in the nation to focus on sexuality education" (press release). There was some minor outrage over this. Not because of the subject matter. Not because Joycelyn Elders wanted kindergarteners to masturbate (that's sarcasm by the way). But, it was when people found out that Adam & Eve was one of the more than 275 donors.

Unfortunately, it is reactions like that (to the Adam and Eve donations) that had made my job as a pastoral counselor that much more difficult. Part of my training, education and practicum included providing counseling related to sexual issues. Yet, it is one of the most underused areas of my training because people are afraid to talk about the fact that they may suffer from premature ejaculation, are interested in bondage during sex, or are just afraid of sex in general. That isn't just an issue of the general view of sex in American society, but also the fact the Church has done a horrific job of handling the faithful who have sexual issues.

I would love to have a Sexual Health Education Center here in Arizona, but the chances of that happening anytime soon are about as good as a blizzard sweeping across Phoenix.

Phoenix Rev wrote:

I would love to have a Sexual Health Education Center here in Arizona, but the chances of that happening anytime soon are about as good as a blizzard sweeping across Phoenix.

As another AZ resident in Tempe area I say we put one in the PV area.

Saw this and I thought about you guys in this thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOK0q...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nesRa...

Feel free to comment on those two videos as he does respond to some of them.

In regards to the blacked out sex shop, I wonder if maybe they thought they'd attract more of the introverted market if they made the shop a place that was not out in the open. This seems more likely if they have a large video section which is, I'm generalizing here, more likely to be frequented by introverts who may be more embarrassed on the subject. Just another viewpoint I thought was worth looking at.

Delerat wrote:

In regards to the blacked out sex shop, I wonder if maybe they thought they'd attract more of the introverted market if they made the shop a place that was not out in the open. This seems more likely if they have a large video section which is, I'm generalizing here, more likely to be frequented by introverts who may be more embarrassed on the subject. Just another viewpoint I thought was worth looking at.

Perhaps. However, Phoenix metro is a place where they put in asterisks on some of the billboards for the touring production of "The Vagina Monologues" as not to upset the fragile and delicate citizens in certain parts of the Valley of the Sun.

I am curious, though, what the reaction would be if Castle Boutique did put a leather teddy, split crotch panties, a selection of vibrators, and a full display of flavored lubricants in the picture window of their store.

We have two main stores in my area, Cirilla's off of Woodward's display is manequins wearing costumes and lingerie. This is not zoning, but you cannot see toys from the street on an 8 lane major road. And I doubt you want a dildo you can see from 50 yards.
Noir Leather is a few miles away, it is a bit off the beaten path, and as you walk past you can see the fetish wear, whips, chains. On warmer days they will have racks on the street. And that is because they are in major foot traffic.

And I doubt you want a dildo you can see from 50 yards.

I never expected such close-mindedness from you, 'Rilla.

That's not a dildo, that's a jackhammer.

LarryC wrote:

That's not a dildo, that's a jackhammer.

I've seen that movie.

Robear wrote:
And I doubt you want a dildo you can see from 50 yards.

I never expected such close-mindedness from you, 'Rilla. :-)

That's no dildo, that's a space station.

Good lord, even Lincoln has a decent place, with open windows, about 2 blocks away from a school and a grocery store. This isn't to say people didn't throw an ENORMOUS hissyfit about it, but they were able to open anyway, society did not crumble, so most people learned from that and shut up.

That's not a space station, it's a cow in Wellingtons.

One thing that amazes me is how moralistic Americans are when it comes to sex, yet completely amoralistic when it comes to doing business. It amazes me that conservative politicians can in the same breath talk about moral values while at the same time demand fewer regulations for business. Many other First World countries have decriminalized prostitution for example, so why hasn't capitalist America also done the same for the world's oldest profession?

Another good example is how blithely companies will throw out loyal workers who have spent years invested working their fingers to the bone for the company. Yet when men try to do the same thing to their wives, they are seen as monsters and often hit with huge penalties such as alimony. Isn't that a huge double standard?

BTW, I stand for regulating and taxing the heck out of prostitution, and giving greedy CEOs the same moral condemnation that cheating husbands get for abandoning their wives.

Jonman wrote:

Maybe there's the key dichotomy there - sex is wholesome, porn not so much.

Lets talk about this a bit. I happen to enjoy watching porn, but I find that I greatly prefer either couple who are filming themselves, or if professional, when they have an actress show up talk a bit and then get to the business. In the first case there is real passion and enjoyment and in the second you have an attractive woman who is being showcased and usually seems to enjoy herself, at least as a professional performing their craft.

Jdzappa - that is a really interesting observation.

BTW, I stand for regulating and taxing the heck out of prostitution, and giving greedy CEOs the same moral condemnation that cheating husbands get for abandoning their wives.

But we'll all be rich someday, and none of us wants to be a hypocrite...

I have a question that I think relates to this topic. Do you who are parents wrestle with the question of how much to tell your kids about sex, and from what age you start talking to them about it? I guess this is an age old question, but I'm wondering more about it now that it seems so easy, especially for men, to get accused of pedophilia, which makes me think, 'what if I tell my 5-year-old how babies are actually made and he/she tells Kindergarten friends, who then tell their parents? Could this lead to a silent ostracism of me by the community for talking to my kid about sex?

I'm very much out of the loop of American culture having not lived there for awhile, but having read some comments on forums here of men receiving accusing looks just for sitting on a park bench near where kids play, I feel like my paranoia might not be totally unwarranted. So what does your moral/ethical compass tell you about talking to your kids about sex and the social implications of them having this knowledge?

As a general matter of prudence, tell the kids as much as they ask. A 5 year old asking where babies are from isn't asking about sex. He's just asking a very straightforward origin question. It's okay to answer him in an equally straightforward manner without going into specifics, since he'll probably just forget about the specifics anyway.

A 13 year old boy asking the same question IS asking about sex, and he needs to get all the answers he requires, even the ones he doesn't ask but clearly implies. If he doesn't get it from you, he'll get it from someone else. Best it be you.

LarryC wrote:

A 13 year old boy asking the same question IS asking about sex, and he needs to get all the answers he requires, even the ones he doesn't ask but clearly implies. If he doesn't get it from you, he'll get it from someone else. Best it be you.

It's also worth noting that half of the draw of sex, besides the obvious hormonal and societal urges, is simply the mystery of it. Parents who don't talk about it at all are really drawing a line in the sand and effectively daring their children not to cross it. While many kids will realize that they shouldn't because their parents say no (and will probably wait awhile), making something forbidden and mysterious is too much of a dare for some kids.

My parents were completely open books about how it worked when me and my brothers were growing up. While I think the handful of us (we're like Weasleys, really) eventually fell in various places along the sexually active spectrum, we were all uniformly unimpressed by both the notion that sex was some sort of great badge of honor and the people who implied such. I think it had a remarkably positive impact on the point at which any of chose to finally start - not because of the age we did so, but because of the reasons behind it.

NathanialG wrote:
Jonman wrote:

Maybe there's the key dichotomy there - sex is wholesome, porn not so much.

Lets talk about this a bit. I happen to enjoy watching porn, but I find that I greatly prefer either couple who are filming themselves, or if professional, when they have an actress show up talk a bit and then get to the business. In the first case there is real passion and enjoyment and in the second you have an attractive woman who is being showcased and usually seems to enjoy herself, at least as a professional performing their craft.

I agree. Without passion or enjoyment it just feels emphatically wrong. I think the reaction of the other person is more interesting then anything else.

I watch porn for the articles and compatibility tests.

Jonman wrote:
Phoenix Rev wrote:

In Phoenix, we have a string of adult stores called the "Castle Boutique." They also operate in other states. Last Saturday night, I stopped in my local Castle Boutique to pick up a few items since Rubb Ed will be here over the Labor Day weekend (go me!). Anyway, the store is divided into two sections and covers about 2400 feet of space. The back half was nothing but videos. The rest of the space was broken into various sections: condoms, lubricants, sex toys, clothing (or lack there of), books on sex, board games, scents, and a rather tasteful whips and chains section (complete with fuzzy handcuffs). In the center of the store was the cashiers station with two late twenty-something guys answering questions and ringing up sales.

Compare and contrast with my preferred adult store here in Seattle (Babeland, formerly Toys In Babeland). Now, admittedly, it's up on Capitol Hill, the 'gay neighbourhood', which is one of the most permissive areas in an already pretty permissive city.

That said, it's a brightly lit store with big windows that open onto a foot-traffic-heavy street surrounded by shops and bars. The staff are knowledgeable, friendly, and have told me that it's store policy for their staff to try as much of the stock as they are able to.

Far from a black featureless bag, they sell cloth totes with their name and logo on, and offer a 10% discount to anyone who brings a Babeland tote back with them. A few months ago, we went a little bit ker-azy in there, and dropped several hundred bucks on a myriad of items. We bought a tote and saved ourselves some money. I now carry that tote in my car with all the other totes, and routinely use it in grocery stores. So far, I've not noticed anyone acknowledging it, but I live in hope

Now that I think about it, I don't think they carry videos. Maybe there's the key dichotomy there - sex is wholesome, porn not so much.

Aw yeah, I love Toys in Babeland! I'm really glad that you support them, those ladies are sweet as hell. Very LGBT&A-friendly! I remember how excited I was to finally go in there on my 18th birthday : )

Another PNW local favorite is Lover's Package and how friendly and pro-education they were, as well. Strip-mall style, big open windows, and very couples-friendly. Very knowledgeable staff and not skeezy.
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