Batman: Arkham City Catch-All

It's hard to say without seeing the final product, but it really does seem like they're packing them in, with a "more = better" attitude.

I didn't think they handled many of the boss fights well in the original. They made ALL the characters large, using videogame tropes, instead of using Batman logic. The climactic battles to take down enemies are supposed to be tough, but things aren't supposed to be THAT supernatural in the Batman world.... they were all too large and cartoony, rather than comic-ish, if that makes any sense.

I'm not sure how it SHOULD have gone, but massively oversized enemies that you gradually chip away at just doesn't fit very well with the 'ordinary human' idea.

The Scarecrow ones were well-done, though. That's the same trope, more or less, but the 'gaze' mechanic had a real tension to it. It felt a little like being a child again and fearing the monsters under your bed. And, in a dream world, supersize Scarecrow made sense.

But Ivy in a five story plant machine? Joker 12 feet tall and ripped? Killer Croc running along conveniently-placed boards in the water? Those things just don't feel much like the Batman stories I've been exposed to.

A phenomenally good game, on the whole, but I do think those parts were the weakest.

I'm not concerend at all. It mostly represents how many levels you are going to be taking on. Each villain basically represents a level and a new boss. Of course some do not have fyull boss fight status. But I don't see how they can cause the game to lose focus.

I think the game sets it up perfectly. You have one main villain that is protected, even if not directly, by several lesser villains. It's pretty classic game design. The only issue with the last game was that a couple of the boss fights were nit actually as much fun as the rest of the game.

It wasn't that Croc and Ivy needed to be taken out, but that their boss fights could have stood to be redesigned. The gameplay required to get to the boss fights was as solid as the rest of the game.

And really, you have Batman entering a portion of Gotham City that has been walled in to hold super criminals, and you don't expect it to be a game where he faces several of them? It seems like the point of the game. I think it is part of what made AA so much fun. This just makes it even easier to create more diverse environments and a better story.

Seriously, the comics you can get that tell the story between AA and AC have me really excited. It's going to be a great ride. It's worth trying to check them out. there is a digital download only series, and a series that you can get at your LCS or online. They may not be the best Batman comics ever, but there is a really fun story being told.

Jayhawker wrote:

It wasn't that Croc and Ivy needed to be taken out, but that their boss fights could have stood to be redesigned. The gameplay required to get to the boss fights was as solid as the rest of the game.

I don't mean that those characters could have been removed because their boss battles were poorly designed (although they were). I mean that their characters, especially Poison Ivy, didn't add much to the game's story. They felt extraneous. Killer Croc at least added something to the ambiance, but the entire sequence of events with Poison Ivy getting injected with titan, and her plants taking over the island, was a tedious distraction from the main storyline. It was just padding, and it's not a coincidence that that's the part of the game where things really start to drag on for a bit too long.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

It was just padding, and it's not a coincidence that that's the part of the game where things really start to drag on for a bit too long.

Actually, I would say it was just a coincidence. It was near the end of the game. The greenhouse level was fine.

I'm just saying that the game should be a collection of baddies. It;s kind of the point in setting it in Arkham. It's what makes it a $60 game, instead of a $15 download.

And from the story the comics is telling, this should all make a lot of sense. There is a good reason for everyome that is involved to be involved.

I can see these arguments a lot more in terms of a Batman movie. I think villin overload bogs down the story. But a videogame is a completely different beast. The player needs new areas with different types of challenges. A superhero game relies on different villains to provide that. My feeling is that rock steady is doing it almost perfectly.

Jayhawker wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

It was just padding, and it's not a coincidence that that's the part of the game where things really start to drag on for a bit too long.

Actually, I would say it was just a coincidence. It was near the end of the game. The greenhouse level was fine.

The greenhouse level was fine the first time through, when you're finding the titan manufacturing plant. It was less exciting the second time through to meet Poison Ivy; likewise, the rest of the map was less exciting the second time through when you're back-tracking through it all for the Poison Ivy plotline. It doesn't help at all that even with all the backtracking you do then, there are collectibles hidden away by Ivy's plants, necessitating a third trip through most of the areas once she's defeated.

I thought one of the strongest aspects of AA was how some of the areas evolved through plot points. I liked spotting the mooks building the big Joker face on the front of the Penitentiary. I think I prefer it to a more linear approach, where even when it's well done (say in the Half-Life games) it never feels as real as freely exploring a single large environment.

I'm not a great fan of the Ivy boss fight, mind you, but I thought it was stronger than the final Joker fight, partly because being big and strong is not what the Joker is really about. I agree with the basic weakness of boss fights, since they often come down to learning patterns and timing rather than skill. The boss fights in AA were a lot weaker than the combat/silent hunter gameplay sections.

The following is kind of a spoiler but not really if you've been following a little bit of the promos.

Spoiler:

Old Villains
Joker
Bane
Harley Quinn
Poison Ivy
Killer Croc
Scarecrow
Zsasz

New Villains
Dr. Strange
Mr. Freeze
Solomon Grundy
Penguin
Two-Face
The Riddler
Talia Al-Ghul

There could be more. No one is sure who is returning and in what capacity. Some of them may have just cameos like The Riddler in AA.

I don't know about you guys but, "videogamey" or not, the killer croc fight terrified me. JAWS for the first time all over again.

I didn't mind the Croc fight. It was short and easy. Thought it fit in well. The Poison Ivy fight and finale against Joker weren't very fun, though. The best part of thr game is silently taking out thugs and beating up large amounts of thugs.

The reason why I didn't enjoy the Poison Ivy and final Joker fight was because they changed the camera on me. All of a sudden the control scheme which I'd been using all game was suddenly out the window and I've got to suddenly learn a brand new way of moving Batman. It was unnecessarily painful.

I agree with Speedhuntr though. The Killer Croc fight was nice and tense because you knew full well that if he grabbed you, it was over.

BlackSabre wrote:

The reason why I didn't enjoy the Poison Ivy and final Joker fight was because they changed the camera on me. All of a sudden the control scheme which I'd been using all game was suddenly out the window and I've got to suddenly learn a brand new way of moving Batman. It was unnecessarily painful.

I agree with Speedhuntr though. The Killer Croc fight was nice and tense because you knew full well that if he grabbed you, it was over.

Kind of true, although they did have that way of moving a few other times, like the Scarecrow sequences.

Citizen86 wrote:

Kind of true, although they did have that way of moving a few other times, like the Scarecrow sequences.

But they weren't as bad as you weren't attempting a great deal of combat. It was more of a get to the next point without being spotted kind of deal with the occasional skeleton thrown in.

I actually really enjoyed the Scarecrow sequences. The rest were pretty blah, and Ivy was about twice as hard as anything else in the game.

As something of a consolation prize, her taunting your demise was quite scenic.

NO GFWL!!?

OMG I hope this is true!

No GFWL for Batman: Arkham City?

It seems Batman: Arkham City will not use Games for Windows LIVE, after all, as GreenManGaming tweets: "We've just received notice from Warner's that Batman is Games for Windows but NOT a Games for Windows 'Live' title!" The box art for the stealth/action sequel was revealed in June showing the GFWL logo, suggesting the game would use Microsoft's service, like Batman: Arkham Asylum did. Thanks Eurogamer.

Although it's a different factor in the equation, GMG were saying their copies would be using securom, which usually means limited activations and an online check at first run. That's the same as the first one though, where my steam copy of AA has it.

Scratched wrote:

Although it's a different factor in the equation, GMG were saying their copies would be using securom, which usually means limited activations and an online check at first run. That's the same as the first one though, where my steam copy of AA has it.

Honestly, I'd take that over GFWL. I pre-ordered from GMG too, so this makes me really happy.

Looks like they sold two fewer copies.

I never have gotten the hate for GFWL. Yes, it could be better, but I actually kind of liked getting achievements multiple times for Arkham City.

My only frustration was that my save games didn't seem to want to move properly, no matter which internet solution I followed.

Not a huge deal either way to me. I guess none of these services get me worked up to much either way.

MannishBoy wrote:

I never have gotten the hate for GFWL. Yes, it could be better, but I actually kind of liked getting achievements multiple times for Arkham City.

Lots of people double-dipped just for 1000 more score.

IMAGE(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_AZySJdar_ew/TI_UE2eCjoI/AAAAAAAABoE/_0b7lIG7bZA/s320/20090828-good-news-everyone.jpg)

tuffalobuffalo wrote:

IMAGE(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_AZySJdar_ew/TI_UE2eCjoI/AAAAAAAABoE/_0b7lIG7bZA/s320/20090828-good-news-everyone.jpg)

Exactly

Jeff-66 wrote:
tuffalobuffalo wrote:

IMAGE(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_AZySJdar_ew/TI_UE2eCjoI/AAAAAAAABoE/_0b7lIG7bZA/s320/20090828-good-news-everyone.jpg)

Exactly :)

I know! I wouldn't have a problem with GFWL if I hadn't wasted hours trying to get logged in for Dead Rising 2. I still don't know what was going on. I eventually went in and changed my password, port forwarded stuff, and eventually it let me to do it. There was no way to save without being logged in. It was lame. Also, The bioshock 2 multiplayer was a nightmare and the voice chat was terrible.

tuffalobuffalo wrote:

I know! I wouldn't have a problem with GFWL if I hadn't wasted hours trying to get logged in for Dead Rising 2. I still don't know what was going on. I eventually went in and changed my password, port forwarded stuff, and eventually it let me to do it.

I had the exact same experience with Batman AA, and again with DoW II. Lately it's been ok, but I still hate having some forced overlay (and forced login!) in my games. The main thing is, other than a way to get achievement points, it's completely unnecessary, and IMO, useless.

I like GFWL, but I've never had problems with it. But since so many people do have issues, I'm glad it's being taken out.

I've never really had any problems with GFWL. When I originally got Batman Arkham Asylum, I was an achievement crazed fiend. Now that I'm not so much the achievement crazed fiend, I'm not fussed by the removal of GFWL. I actually kinda like the news.

I don't feel like it added a whole lot. No achievements will also mean I can just enjoy playing the game for the experience, rather than be self obsessed to do every last thing.

The death of GFWL has been greatly exaggerated?

Now we have Warner telling someone else that “Arkham City is indeed a G4WL [sic] title.” So those of you who want the PC achievement points may be in luck after all.

I thought it was too good to be true.

Yeah, GreenManGaming posted this to twitter:

Sorry for confusion RE GWFL & Batman. We have an email saying it isn't, they told Eurogamer it is. Waiting on official statement, now. /R

I liked Batman: AA a lot, but not to make me want to buy this one on day one. However, GMG apparently just allowed people to pay in USD in lots of EU countries. Coupled with their 15% pre-order discout + a voucher the game costs 45% of what I would pay on Steam. The only thing holding me back is that I really don't want another DD app, but damn that's a good deal. If only it were a Steamworks game..

I really can't wait for this to come out. Arkham Asylum was one of my favourite games. Lets hope they don't mess the sequel up!