WoW: Cataclysm - SPOILERS WITHIN

You know, it's amazing how easy bosses are when they're not broken. Especially that bastard Rhyolith. It's been the same story 2 weeks in a row: We spend Tuesday and Wednesday wiping to the bastard, then go in on Sunday and wreck him. It's getting to be really annoying to have to wait the entire week for Blizzard to hotfix that boss.

I think I was part of a new Gnomer fail record: After first trash mob, tank went straight, party went over the side, tank died, tank cussed out the healer, tank dropped, everyone else dropped. Total elapsed time: 2 mins.

Close, but not quite. I've had several where everyone quit before the first pull.

Rag down. Pretty interesting fight. Basically, it's 100% planning and communication. You need to have all the transitions planned out, who goes where, DPS'es what, etc. Past that, it's actually pretty easy until P3, when everything really goes all to hell.

cube wrote:

Rag down. Pretty interesting fight. Basically, it's 100% planning and communication. You need to have all the transitions planned out, who goes where, DPS'es what, etc. Past that, it's actually pretty easy until P3, when everything really goes all to hell.

Is it just me or could that have been a pretty accurate description of a classic Ragnaros first kill?

I still remember my first Rag kill. Thursday night at a lan party of all places, and I was a last minute stand in. Also at a lan when I got my dreadsteed, back before they were handing them out like candy.

Scratched wrote:

I still remember my first Rag kill. Thursday night at a lan party of all places, and I was a last minute stand in. Also at a lan when I got my dreadsteed, back before they were handing them out like candy.

I think everyone who actually killed Ragnaros during classic will take that away as his number one experience when he tells his grand kids about the way he spent his youth. The reason why: everyone you ask will tell you, their Ragnaros first kill was the only one that mattered and nothing ever measured up to that again. No matter how many times the World First guilds keep telling us that this new boss was the most challenging and exciting ever.
And I can't blame them. I did the treadmill until T8 and disbanded my raid prior to killing Yogghurtface and during all those years, no boss provoked even nearly the excitement and cheers that Ragnaros caused.

It's great, until your big grinning faces are reintroduced to the floor with BWL, and you're back to the routine of the raid leader taking 15 minutes discussing tactics with the main tank and two other guys, and if they're going to do another experimental attempt/wipe to just get on with it, even if you've got 20% durability left. Oh, and you're the warlock so you get to summon back everyone who leaves for reagents/repairs/gear swapping/respecs and replacements, hope you farmed enough shards...

Sorry... flashbacks.

There really is a contrast between climbing the progression hill at 60, and doing a retro run on those old raids now. As much as Molten Bore earned it's nickname, it was a great training ground for big content.

MC taught people that raiding is pain and that they better like it, otherwise no epics. BWL taught them to play their class. Everything after that came down to having a good strategy guy and 40+ people with enough time on their hand to farm consumables. They removed all three parts, that's why the old raid model is dying due to barely any new blood entering the hardcore raiding (back then we just called it "raiding") game. Funny how making a game more accessible can also make it less attractive.

On that note, can't wait for the subscriber numbers. Let's see what number they are pulling out of thin air this time.

So I finally stumbled my way into Molten Front. Best I can tell, I do a bunch of dailies to get currency that unlocks other dailies (and new territory and some new shinies).

Is this about right? Am I missing something?

Do the quest line surrounding Mr. and Mrs. Thrall starting at the lake close to the spawn in point in Hyjal to get an epic cloak. Also, the first day of the Molten Front should open up the first vendor who sells epics for gold. Maybe something of interest for lil' Jorrn?

Oh, and finally you should marvel at the Molten Front and appreciate the fact that we're not playing on a PVP server at least a minute each day.

Thrall quest - check. Got the cloak.

Spoiler:

Who knew Thrall was not a fighter but a lover? Except for Carg, of course.

First vendor - check. He (she?) sells a nice pair of tankin' boots. But I was lucky enough in last week's BWD run to get the welfare epic tanking boots that drop there, so I don't need 'em.

I guess the good thing about the dailies is that I'll be exalted with Hyjal in no time, and they'll certainly fatten up my bank account and my achievement point total.

But other than that, they're seem to be a more flammable version of the Argent Tourney quests back in Wrath.

Luggage wrote:

MC taught people that raiding is pain and that they better like it, otherwise no epics. BWL taught them to play their class. Everything after that came down to having a good strategy guy and 40+ people with enough time on their hand to farm consumables. They removed all three parts, that's why the old raid model is dying due to barely any new blood entering the hardcore raiding (back then we just called it "raiding") game. Funny how making a game more accessible can also make it less attractive.

I can appreciate it's a delicate balance. I think there needs to be a certain amount of pain to 'earn' advancement, but how much, and that there needs to be a good feeling of progression and not just scraping your genitals in a grinder for a few hours a week so that it takes 5 minutes less next week.

Scratched wrote:
Luggage wrote:

MC taught people that raiding is pain and that they better like it, otherwise no epics. BWL taught them to play their class. Everything after that came down to having a good strategy guy and 40+ people with enough time on their hand to farm consumables. They removed all three parts, that's why the old raid model is dying due to barely any new blood entering the hardcore raiding (back then we just called it "raiding") game. Funny how making a game more accessible can also make it less attractive.

I can appreciate it's a delicate balance. I think there needs to be a certain amount of pain to 'earn' advancement, but how much, and that there needs to be a good feeling of progression and not just scraping your genitals in a grinder for a few hours a week so that it takes 5 minutes less next week.

I can exactly pinpoint when the balance went to heck: the removal of the T5/T6 atunements in BC. In my opinion, that was the beginning of the end.

I can exactly pinpoint when the balance went to heck: the removal of the T5/T6 atunements in BC. In my opinion, that was the beginning of the end.

When the Isle of Queldanis & Sunwell came in, and you could buy fairly high level epics from vendors just by doing dailies and heroics was the point I think most people started saying 'Welfare Epics' and complaining about how the game had become too casual.

I, personally, welcome our casual-loving overlords.

I though the 'welfare epics' term was in part through people being boosted through high end content, someone undergeared with a group overgeared on an alt run farming badges, but it was also through the PvP system when they moved from the rank system to accumulating marks/honour. I remember BG idling to be a big problem as the arena seasons went on and started trickling down, people just sitting there for epics.

I don't think it's one thing, but a combination of factors.

I wouldn't want to be the one designer to say that one change that removes a little bit of tedium is the wrong thing to do, after all, it's being nice to the players. However it does seem like a definite change in the attitude of the game, and I'll be honest, what's bad for a certain set of players is also often good for others, it's something quantifiable that can be used to alter the audience of the game, and wow managed a big audience for a time.

... people being boosted through high end content, someone undergeared with a group overgeared on an alt run farming badges, but it was also through the PvP system when they moved from the rank system to accumulating marks/honour.

I dont really think being boosted through a raid instance for epics for alts qualifies since that requires said overgeared persons in the first place - what I understood was the welfare tag applied to people who got epics but had never stepped in an instance and didnt know how to play (or didnt want to know), etc etc etc.

Perfectly valid point about the PvP stuff. I hate the WoW PvP system and care nothing for it and know nothing about it now.

The designers are just looking after their best interests in these cases. The time sink for upper level content is deliberately set at a large amount to begin with and as the content ages the timesink is lowered to allow people who never experienced said content before to see it. This lesson was learned in the BC days when there was much outcry from the vocal minority about people not seeing all the content in the game because they didn't have 39 friends with no lives.

And as the expansions roll out and old content gets older, allowing more and more of the new populace to burn right through it so they hit the diligently crafted timesinks at the top end is sheer brilliance and yet dastardly at the same time - hook em while they're young, then slow the faucet over time til it's a trickle.

I can't personally see this model dying any time soon since it seems to work so well, psychologically.

Not really exclusive to WoW, but something I'd like to see is instead of all the raids being an endgame progression A to B to C, that they form a part of the leveling process, and leveling itself is less about "you suck until you're max level, and then you work on raiding", so you just rush to max level. So you have a much slower leveling pace, but much larger goals to work at while you're doing it, I suppose similar to the emphasis dungeons had in classic, and perhaps a heroic max level version of the raids so they're always relevant rather than being out leveled and abandoned.

It's kind of why I'm looking forward to GW2, which after an initial build up of your character, the significance of levels diminishes and you just get on with the game, but still progress.

Change of topic, how hard are the Zandalari instances compared to normal heroics?

I am at ilvl 350 now and would like to supplement my gear with the Zul epics. I am somewhat afraid about some elitist "GOGOGO wanna get da bear noob!!!1!" party.

Luggage wrote:

Change of topic, how hard are the Zandalari instances compared to normal heroics?

I am at ilvl 350 now and would like to supplement my gear with the Zul epics. I am somewhat afraid about some elitist "GOGOGO wanna get da bear noob!!!1!" party.

They're harder than the regular ones, and in general require your party to have a clue. There are some bosses you can scrape by on, but there are others where if someone doesn't know what they're doing they can wipe the entire party. That isn't much different from regular heroics, honestly, but there's a smaller margin of error.

I was afraid to run them with Cap, but it turned out to be not as bad as I thought. It largely depends on the group you get. If you go with a bunch of us, you should be fine. If you get a pug with a tank who doesn't really know how to build threat and keeps blaming the party for pulling off him, or a healer who admits to being stoned and keeps screwing over the party by always being in the wrong place... it might not go as well (and yes, I've had both of those in the past few days).

Expansion 4 : "Mists of Pandaria"?

Scratched wrote:

Expansion 4 : "Mists of Pandaria"?

*checks date*
Huh, and it's not even April 1st.

lolpandas.

So did they finally negotiate with China or whatever they had to do to add in pandarans?

This next expansion is going to be very silly.

OMG, a GWJ Sith guild - I <3 you, OilyP! *squeee*

Scratched wrote:

Expansion 4 : "Mists of Pandaria"?

Interesting that, with some obvious exceptions (the level cap being one of them), if this pans out, that old 2007 list of leveling zones will continue to be accurate:

An old, discredited list from 2007 wrote:

- Draenor Set:
Azuremyst Isle – 1 to 10
Bloodmyrk Isle – 10 to 20
Eversong Forest – 1 to 10
Quel’thalas – 10 to 20
Hellfire Peninsula – 58 to 62
Zangarmarsh – 60 to 64
Terokkar Forest – 61 to 65
The Deadlands – 63 to 67
Nagrand – 64 to 68
Blade’s Edge Mountains – 66 to 70
Netherstorm – 67 to 70
Shadowmoon Valley – 69 to 70
- Northrend Set
Borean Tundra – 67 to 70
Howling Fjord – 67 to 70
Dragonblight – 69 to 72
Grizzly Hills – 70 to 73
Crystalsong Forest – 72 to 75
Zul’drak – 73 to 76
Sholazar Basin – 75 to 79
Storm Peaks – 76 to 80
Icecrown Glacier – 78 to 80
- Maelstrom Set
Gilneas – 77 to 80
Grim Batol – 78 to 81
Kul Tiras – 79 to 82
Kezan – 81 to 86
Tel Abim – 83 to 85
Zandalar – 84 to 87
Plunder Isle – 86 to 88
The Broken Isles – 87 to 90
The Maelstrom – 89 to 90
- Plane Set
Pandaria – 1 to 10
Hiji – 10 to 20
Wolfenhold – 1 to 10
Xorothian Plains – 10 to 20
The Green Lands – 88 to 91
The Dying Paradise – 91 to 94
The Emerald Nightmare – 94 to 97
The Eye of Ysera – 97 to 100
Deephome – 88 to 91
Skywall – 91 to 94
The Abyssal Maw – 94 to 97
The Firelands – 97 to 100
- Legion Set
K’aresh – 96 to 99
Argus Meadowlands – 97 to 100
Mac’Aree – 99 to 100

Maw of Oblivion – 100+

edit -- I must admit that if Blizzard creates a monk style class (brewmaster would be close) -- I would seriously consider re upping.

Hm, Wolvenhold doesn't make sense as a new starter zone, since we already got Worgen witht he last Xpac. Plus we already got a few of the zones of the next supposed Xpac with this one.

Seth wrote:

edit -- I must admit that if Blizzard creates a monk style class (brewmaster would be close) -- I would seriously consider re upping.

Hell, I'm not that interested in new races since they don't change the gameplay much other than shiny new starting areas. A new class would be awesome, and I'd be all over that as I've indicated elsewhere. Death knight was fun for the starting area, but the gameplay of it sadly didn't click with me.

Subscriptions are down another 300,000, to 11.1m. I'd be interested to see which regions are dropping off, as I don't think China has cata yet.

Yeah, if the drop off is mostly in US/EU then the numbers are a lot more serious than if its mostly in China or spread evenly, since I believe the US/EU was around 3-4 million last we heard (= before they lost 900,000). Plus the higher subscription is from those areas of course.
It might be a good thing for the game though if Blizzard realizes they have to do more for the game to keep it on top.

Shadout wrote:

It might be a good thing for the game though if Blizzard realizes they have to do more for the game to keep it on top.

That depends if they want to or not. It's an open secret Titan is coming in a few years, and what efforts would they have to do to 'regain their past glories'? I'm sure they could retune the game to be like any ruleset from the past versions, or something new, but perhaps there's some other reason the audience is declining and they're just trailing away from the cash-cow part of a product's normal life cycle. It might be foolish to fight the decline, put it's hair in a dyed green mohican, rather than to grow old gracefully.