Dapper Dan(ielle)'s Thread of Sartorial Delights

Hrm, no (though I wasn't looking), but I did just pick up a 38L Zegna navy DB suit that might fit you. It's...really really long. It's at the dry cleaners right now with the rest of the lot I got on ebay, but I can get you measurements when it comes back. DB would go well with your bowler.

EDIT: I would be surprised if you actually measured as a 40 suit, at least from the pictures I've seen of you. Most men tend to wear suits that are too big for them. Do you know what your actual chest measurement is? The general procedure for most manufacturers is to add 4" to the size, so if you buy a 40 jacket it will be 44" or so across the chest (probably bigger, if you're buying Long — short jackets are not just shorter, they're smaller all around, and conversely long jackets are bigger all around). I think, especially for skinny guys, 2" works better. Just my opinion, though.

EDIT2: That being said, if you really are a 40L, this is a hell of a deal for a real Loro Piana suit. Or you might want to keep your eye on this killer Canali suit.

Have you watched any of Put This On? http://putthison.com/

A web series about dressing like a grownup hosted by Jesse Thorn, America's Radio Sweetheart. Curious what the goodjers think.

41" chest.
Also, 3 button? Do you want me to look like jaws from Jame Bond!?
EDIT
I hate my new company dress code. What do you mean I can't workout in a sleeveless beer t-shirt? That's how I get my swoll on.

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/66uL0.jpg)

Mixolyde wrote:

Have you watched any of Put This On? http://putthison.com/

A web series about dressing like a grownup hosted by Jesse Thorn, America's Radio Sweetheart. Curious what the goodjers think.

I haven't, but I'll have to check it out. I've been meaning to add a few fun and/or informative sartorial blogs to the OP. Someday...

boogle wrote:

41" chest.
Also, 3 button? Do you want me to look like jaws from Jame Bond!?

I really like the 3B look on taller, skinny guys, but that's just me. The button stance can be so low on long jackets it can look silly. Anyway, check ebay if you're patient, there's a ton of great 40L stuff there (and even more tons of terrible stuff, but what can you do?).

Mixolyde wrote:

Have you watched any of Put This On? http://putthison.com/

A web series about dressing like a grownup hosted by Jesse Thorn, America's Radio Sweetheart. Curious what the goodjers think.

Okay, this is very much helping me update my wardrobe for my new job.

boogle wrote:

41" chest.
Also, 3 button? Do you want me to look like jaws from Jame Bond!?
EDIT
I hate my new company dress code. What do you mean I can't workout in a sleeveless beer t-shirt? That's how I get my swoll on.

They have a dress code for working out?

By the way, that lolJaws is hella creepy, Tanglebones.

NathanialG wrote:
boogle wrote:

41" chest.
Also, 3 button? Do you want me to look like jaws from Jame Bond!?
EDIT
I hate my new company dress code. What do you mean I can't workout in a sleeveless beer t-shirt? That's how I get my swoll on.

They have a dress code for working out?

For the company gym.

Today, apparently in honor of my birthday (or maybe Flag Day?) Jos. A. Bank is having a 50% off sale on nearly everything in the store, if you like American fits. The one in VA near me has pretty good staff.

Minarchist wrote:

By the way, that lolJaws is hella creepy, Tanglebones.

I aim to please/horrify

Minarchist wrote:

2. Learn what good quality actually means. Most famous brands like Calvin Klein or Banana Republic, even up to the ranks of Dolce & Gabbana, make absolutely horrible menswear. Use duct tape to keep your head from exploding with your newfound knowledge.

2. Find cheap resources, like The Tie Bar (mentioned above), ebay, thrift stores, outlet malls, etc.

I'm having a bit of a hard time reconciling these two points. I understand that stuff like Banana Republic (which is unfortunately where I'm now getting a lot of my stuff) isn't fantastic. But:

1) I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars on a dress shirt at Hugo Boss like some admittedly very well dressed friends
2) The idea of spending any significant time at thrift stores and outlet malls to find a deal sounds very unappealing.
3) Buying online is an option, but makes me uncomfortable when it comes to clothes - trying stuff on is important to me. Plus, as a Canadian, I imagine my online options are much more limited or shipping will be prohibitive.

So what should I do? Are there any chains that actually produce decent clothes at Banana-Republic-esque prices?
Should I just find a local MTM tailer and work from there? Should I get my measurements, suck it up, and give online a shot? Can you recommend a good place that will ship to Canada?

I'm mostly looking for Shirts & Pants, btw.

Dysplastic wrote:

So what should I do? Are there any chains that actually produce decent clothes at Banana-Republic-esque prices?

No. It's a tradeoff; you can either spend copious amounts of time looking for bargains, or spend copious amounts of money on quality.

The one place where you can cheat the system is, like I mentioned on page 1, with foreign MTM tailors; Jantzen will make MTM shirts for Banana Republic prices at a quality that's better than most chain stores, though not incredible.

Also, having a rare size makes all of this significantly harder to do in thrift shops/consignment shops.

Thanks for the info! Going MTM is something I've been considering for a while. What would you suggest for work/dress pants?

Dysplastic wrote:

What would you suggest for work/dress pants?

Wool, silk, or cotton. Maybe linen in the summer months. (Seriously, stay the hell away from anything with spandex or polyester in it, or both; I'm looking at you CK and Express.)

I've found most of my trousers at a men's consignment store. I tend to prefer wool and a pretty close cut, so I generally have to get mine tailored; but if I'm getting $150 pants for $25, I don't mind paying the $40 my tailor charges me to bring in the waist, remove the pleats, bring in the thighs and re-hem. Big names to look out for here (if you do go dumpster-diving) are Incotex, Mabitex, Howard Yount and Ralph Lauren Purple Label (and sometimes Zanella). TBH, though, pants are something that are a little easier to pick up; most people make a decent one. Brooks Brothers aren't bad, and I've even been pleasantly surprised with the quality of the "Traveler's" line of trousers (they're more slim-fitting) at Joseph A Bank, as much as I abhor most of their stuff. Stay away from designer khakis, which just don't have a good fit for dress shirts; the ones I own, even RL Polo, have a crotch cut way too low and far too full of a seat to look clean.

Though I've not done it yet, I understand that trousers are an excellent place to try out MTM or bespoke. Construction doesn't tend to be quite as important as fit (fit is KING with pants) and quality of materials (which, if you're at a local tailor, you'll be able to feel for yourself). If you do get custom-made trousers, let me know how you like them.

Dysplastic wrote:
Minarchist wrote:

2. Learn what good quality actually means. Most famous brands like Calvin Klein or Banana Republic, even up to the ranks of Dolce & Gabbana, make absolutely horrible menswear. Use duct tape to keep your head from exploding with your newfound knowledge.

2. Find cheap resources, like The Tie Bar (mentioned above), ebay, thrift stores, outlet malls, etc.

I'm having a bit of a hard time reconciling these two points.

That might have something to do with the fact that they're both point # 2. [facepalm]

Unfortunately, it is a trade-off. The good stuff isn't cheap for several reasons:

  • real materials — synthetics like polyester and rayon are much cheaper, but much less durable and don't drape well on the body
  • better fabric — if you really care to know, loom speed is a very strong indication of a fabric's durability. Low-quality wool and cotton are woven at >100,000 yards per day, which puts a huge amount of strain on the thread itself because it's woven at such a high speed. There are still some Swiss and Italian mills that will run certain fabrics at <10,000 yards/day, sometimes as low as 3,000. It's considerably stronger, and generally looks nicer too.
  • construction — particularly seams and canvassing. The high-end stuff has all of its decorative and non-crucial seams hand-sewn; Oxxford, for instance, spends something like 96 hours on each suit. As far as canvassing (which is what gives the suit its structure), all low-end and many "designer" high-end suits are fully fused lining, which — over time — will not conform to the body and can even bubble, which looks horrible. There are various degrees of real canvassing, from just the lapels (to get that nice lapel roll instead of a flat transition) to half-canvassing (just the chest) to full canvassing. Since the actual canvas must be sewn in, usually by hand, the more there is the more expensive the product will be.

There's more, but that's a good start. However, if you're looking for shirts in particular, there are several good resources. As Tangle mentioned, Jantzen is getting to be pretty reputable. You could try finding a local tailor, like I did; it's surprisingly inexpensive considering they're making the shirt specifically for you. Mine was $95 for a pinpoint oxford, and had I gone up to the super-luxe Sea Island cottons it would have been around $160 or so. Or, try some of the Jermyn street tailors in the UK.

Charles Tyrwhitt makes shirts that really aren't half-bad (especially their black label and Sea Island stuff). Note that you can usually get a better deal by paying in pounds at the co.uk site, then shipping to wherever else in the world. If you aren't built to, um, generous proportions, try their slim fit or their even slimmer tailored fit. They're nice (the tailored fit in particular). If you go in for their 29-pound shirts and the 4-for-3 deal, you're paying, what, $40 a shirt at the current exchange?

TM Lewin is another worth mentioning. I've not purchased anything from them. Some people think they're better than Tyrwhitt, some worse. So maybe they're about the same? At 4 for 90 pounds, though, it's probably worth experimenting.

If you go a little higher end, try places like Hilditch & Key, Turnbull & Asser, or Harvie & Hudson. They tend to be more expensive but significantly better quality than the aforementioned two, though I do note that H&K currently has some shirts on sale for 55 pounds.

Otherwise, do you have any consignment stores in town? Easier than trying to root through piles of rubbish at Goodwill or Salvation Army.

Oh, as an aside, on the merits of construction quality and materials most suit-y people would rate Hugo Boss as one of those crappy designer brands with poor quality all around — the possible exception being his Black Label, which does tend to be pretty nice (but there are far better values for the money).

EDIT: Harvie & Hudson is currently having a sale of 3 shirts for 40 pounds each! That's about $65 a shirt for very, very high-quality shirting.

EDIT 2: I did a bit more searching and apparently TM Lewin's stuff has recently been outsourced to China and has gone downhill; reports of shrinkage of up to an entire size after a few washings abound. Maybe stay away. Right now that H&H deal in the first edit is really tempting, as the quality is better than TML or Tyrwhitt.

I believe the old adage is good-fast-cheap, pick any two. Setting up a folder in an RSS reader with a bunch of saved searched on ebay is apparently a good tactic.

Also Minarchist, finding pants at consignment is easy when your inseam isn't 34".

I've been a customer of the Goorin Brothers for quite a while and always happy with their quality and selection of hats. They aren't cheap but won't break the bank either.

boogle wrote:

Also Minarchist, finding pants at consignment is easy when your inseam isn't 34".

True. Remember, though, that all dress pants ship 36" unhemmed, and oftentimes at least some of that material is retained when the pants are finished by a tailor (at least, it should be). If you find some 32"s you like, look inside the hem at the bottom to see if there's a couple inches of extra length that can be let down. You'd be surprised how often there is. Also, most better ebay sellers will tell you how much inseam there is to let out (as well as how much waist), but if not feel free to ask. The ones I've dealt with so far have answered questions pretty quickly.

Minarchist, your Stetson on page 1 looks exactly like my Panama. I thought that a Stetson had a wider brim?

I bought a couple of reasonably priced suits recently. My sister got married this month, and wanted us in 3 piece suits. Thankfully, they are making a comeback over here. Unfortunately, the wedding was in Malta, so I almost died of the heat during the ceremony. I also bought a linen suit and the aforementioned panama, which is ace.

I wear a suit for work every day, but tend to go for off the peg, hard wearing ones, with a couple of decent bespokes for big trials or whatever. It's like donning my battle armour.

Outside of work, I tend to be a bit of a slob at the moment. A three year old and an 8 month old make keeping clothes decent absolutely impossible.

spider_j wrote:

Minarchist, your Stetson on page 1 looks exactly like my Panama. I thought that a Stetson had a wider brim?

Stetson is just a brand, not a type of hat (though a widely revered brand). That particular hat is a panama-style straw fedora. A true panama would have more of a symmetrically round top (think bowler, but with a crease down the middle) as opposed to the fedora's teardrop shape. The brims are more or less the same, though. However, nowadays some places label any straw fedora-like hat as a panama. See below for a true panama:

IMAGE(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a1/Panama_hat.jpg/635px-Panama_hat.jpg)

Fix your links!
Also playing some disc golf today I got the skinny on a quality haberdasher in town that stocks high end and good value MTM stuffs.

So final shirt update for tonight...

If you follow the link josh (to the American site) and buy at least two of the $39 shirts, you can use the coupon "stca" to shave another $20 off the total. But just until [color=blue]midnight tonight![/color] (Tuesday) I just picked up three of the tailored-fit shirts for a hair over $100 shipped. Pretty damn good, I'd say.

spider_j wrote:

I wear a suit for work every day, but tend to go for off the peg, hard wearing ones, with a couple of decent bespokes for big trials or whatever. It's like donning my battle armour.

I liked this a lot. Whenever I have the occasion to suit up, I feel like I'm ready to kick ass and take names.

boogle wrote:

Fix your links!
Also playing some disc golf today I got the skinny on a quality haberdasher in town that stocks high end and good value MTM stuffs.

You're taking recommendations of a tailor from someone that plays disc golf? That's like getting a butcher recommendation from a vegan.

Found some Allen Edmonds Brown Oxfords in my size on ebay. Tempted.

boogle wrote:

Found some Allen Edmonds Brown Oxfords in my size on ebay. Tempted.

Heh, I just picked up a pair of balmorals. They're supposed to be here tomorrow, so we'll see how the sizing is. As much as I'd love to be able to afford John Lobb or Edward Green, I think used AEs are going to be more in my price range for a while. I really have my eye on these, the Strand in walnut.

Minarchist wrote:
boogle wrote:

Found some Allen Edmonds Brown Oxfords in my size on ebay. Tempted.

Heh, I just picked up a pair of balmorals. They're supposed to be here tomorrow, so we'll see how the sizing is. As much as I'd love to be able to afford John Lobb or Edward Green, I think used AEs are going to be more in my price range for a while. I really have my eye on these, the Strand in walnut.

I think I'll stick with the black oxfords I have for now, but a brown pair and corresponding belt is definitely in my future.

When I'm looking at clothes in thrift shops and ebay, what can I reasonably expect a tailor to accomplish if I take him an item too large for me to wear? Let's suppose I wear a 38L; is there a range of jacket sizes that would be ideal for me to look for, in order to have them tailored properly?

Polliwog wrote:

When I'm looking at clothes in thrift shops and ebay, what can I reasonably expect a tailor to accomplish if I take him an item too large for me to wear? Let's suppose I wear a 38L; is there a range of jacket sizes that would be ideal for me to look for, in order to have them tailored properly?

It's a bit of a price dilemma. There's very little that can't be done, but sometimes the price makes it not worth it (unless you're getting a crazy good steal on the item).

Things that are easy:

  • shortening sleeves (EXCEPTION: working buttons on the cuff, see below)
  • lengthening sleeves IF there's fabric to do so
  • taking in the waist of the jacket
  • re-hemming pants (lengthen, too, if there's enough fabric)
  • altering pants waist (either way)
  • darting jacket

Things that can get pricey, but most people can do:

  • taking out the collar roll -- the small creases you can get just below the collar due to excess fabric
  • altering shoulder padding
  • removing/adding pleats to pants
  • tapering sleeves
  • tapering pants legs
  • taking in the blades (chest area) -- usually you can't go much more than a couple of inches circumference here without making the suit look pretty wonky

Things that are tough:

  • shortening sleeves with working cuff buttons. It can be done, but it has to be done from the shoulder seam end, then re-tapered due to the sleevehead no longer matching the size of the armscye in the jacket.
  • adding/altering the vents in the jacket
  • taking in the shoulders (no more than a 1/2" on either side)
  • any significant alteration, e.g. more than an inch or two anywhere. It can drastically alter the silhouette and drape of the suit, and frankly if it doesn't fit you pretty severely, it's probably best to leave it unless it truly is the deal of the century (see my Oxxford suit above)
  • shortening the jacket -- darn near impossible. In theory it's not, but cutting off that extra fabric can really throw the balance of the suit out of whack, as far as buttoning position and especially the pockets. If the jacket has high pockets, it becomes more likely. Vents also make this considerably more difficult.