The big "How do I choose an HDTV?" thread.

The 42LD450 was a simple screen size+price decision (I did zero research), but it turns out, despite having terrible black levels, it has a very fast response time, which makes it perfect for gaming.

I wouldn't recommended it for a home theater setup, but as a gaming TV it is great, especially considering the price.

AVS Catch-All:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...

If you will be primarily using your TV for gaming and/or as a PC monitor, then the LG xxLD450 series is arguably the best TV for you. This recommendation is based on measured proof and feedback from several owners. The xxLD450 is also decent enough for TV and movie watching, but there are better alternatives if these are your primary uses.

Thread.... rise from your grave!

So I just picked up a new plasma, the Samsung PN59D6500. It was sale over the weekend at Amazon, and I wanted a new set, so I went ahead and pulled the trigger. It arrived today.

First impression: holy SH*T that thing is big. I probably should have gone for the 51" instead of the 59", but I read somewhere that the 59" panels are better. Dunno if that's true, but a 59 inch screen is pretty goddamn enormous for a television, and I'm regretting the size and extra cost a bit.

Second impression: holy SH*T that thing is heavy. It weighs a lot more than I expected. It's too heavy for me to lift comfortably by myself. Between the size and the weight, I'm sure I'll throw my back out if I try to lift it, so figuring out how to get it onto the entertainment center is going to be interesting. I have it set up on the floor right now.

Third impression (after unboxing): holy SH*T that's thin. It's like a half-inch thick.

Fourth impression (after plugging it in), oh christ, why the hell do I have to do such a long WPA2 passphrase? But, hey, it does N, which is nice. I struggled getting it connected to my Airport Extreme, but eventually got it -- I'd just repassworded my WPA, and I think I got it wrong somewhere. Redid it again, and it connected right away. But lemme tell ya, inputting a 40+ character passphrase on a TV remote, four times, is not a lot of fun.

Fifth impression: oh wow, that is just beautiful. I think there's some blue push, but I'm not sure if that's just the very blue interface. It was pretty cool being able to use the built-in TV software to hit up Vudu to get some quick free samples of HD material before hooking anything else up. (there's a LOT of stuff built into the TV, including Hulu, Netflix, and apparently a ton of downloadable apps for things like Youtube and Vimeo.) The color's not as good as it was on my Sony HD CRT, but I think it can be with some work. But there's no point in trying to calibrate a plasma until it's past a hundred hours, so I'll work on that next week sometime.

Sixth impression: God of War 3 on a 59" screen, even without surround sound, rocks. The detail is amazing, the colors are awesome (although probably oversaturated), and everything is just so gorgeous. I really liked my HD CRT, but it just doesn't hold a candle to this thing for sheer presence. The images just leap off the screen. I always did videogaming in Vivid mode on the CRT, so I think comparing it to this TV uncalibrated is a fair comparison -- this is Game Mode on the Samsung, versus Vivid on the Sony, and the Samsung is so, so, SO much better. The CRT had incredible color in Pro mode, but I hated that mode for gaming because everything was always so dark. Vivid made it easy to see stuff, but it was kinda cartoony. The plasma makes it easy to see stuff without being cartoony.

Seventh impression: oh crap, I gotta be careful about using this thing, because it's a plasma -- I always have to remember image retention issues. And I shouldn't play any more games until I'm past the first hundred hours. But this is SO much nicer than the LCDs I saw in the store that I don't mind at all.

I'm not going to have it set up in its final position for probably a couple of weeks -- I bought it before I was really ready because of the Memorial Day pricing. I'm impressed enough that I'm thinking about maybe picking up a 3D starter kit. It's just so gorgeous in 2D that I'm suddenly tempted by 3D, even with the stupid glasses.

I may look into wall-mounting it, because it's so thin. But it's so heavy that I'll have to scope out the target location carefully with a stud sensor to see if I've got an anchor point for that much weight. It is REALLY heavy, despite being thin. It weighs less than the CRT (which was 200+ pounds), but I bet it's close to a hundred, and it's so big that it's really hard to get an angle on it.

Nice eh Malor? The wife and I bought one of those in October and its fantastic. At first I honestly thought it was too big. Now... everything else is too small

PAR

Malor wrote:

Seventh impression: oh crap, I gotta be careful about using this thing, because it's a plasma -- I always have to remember image retention issues. And I shouldn't play any more games until I'm past the first hundred hours. But this is SO much nicer than the LCDs I saw in the store that I don't mind at all.

Isn't that a complete Plasma Myth? I thought that was just an issue with early Plasmas.

I'm completely jealous. That must be a gorgeous TV.

Well, the first hundred hours are still claimed to be problematic by the Internet hordes.

After that, you just need to avoid putting still images up for any kind of lengthy period. You can still cause true image burn on a plasma post break-in, but you have to WORK at it. Normally, the worst you'll see is "image retention", which usually only lasts a few hours at most, and more frequently just a few minutes.

So I basically won't need to worry about it after a couple of weeks, but right now I feel that I should be careful, whether or not that's accurate.

Malor wrote:

Well, the first hundred hours are still claimed to be problematic by the Internet hordes.

After that, you just need to avoid putting still images up for any kind of lengthy period. You can still cause true image burn on a plasma post break-in, but you have to WORK at it. Normally, the worst you'll see is "image retention", which usually only lasts a few hours at most, and more frequently just a few minutes.

So I basically won't need to worry about it after a couple of weeks, but right now I feel that I should be careful, whether or not that's accurate.

Hell, it sure doesn't hurt to be careful. If you have problems, you can ship the TV to my address. I'm sure I could find a place for it in the parlor.

fwiw I've used my panny plasma as a pc monitor for a couple years now. I move icons around periodically, but I've seen zero burn in. I think the whole thing is a myth at this point. I believe HDguru even left a plasma on for something like a week showing one image and nothing was burned in.

Chairman_Mao wrote:

fwiw I've used my panny plasma as a pc monitor for a couple years now. I move icons around periodically, but I've seen zero burn in. I think the whole thing is a myth at this point. I believe HDguru even left a plasma on for something like a week showing one image and nothing was burned in.

most plasma uses a "pixel shifting" technology that will even help in those situations.

TheGameguru wrote:
Chairman_Mao wrote:

fwiw I've used my panny plasma as a pc monitor for a couple years now. I move icons around periodically, but I've seen zero burn in. I think the whole thing is a myth at this point. I believe HDguru even left a plasma on for something like a week showing one image and nothing was burned in.

most plasma uses a "pixel shifting" technology that will even help in those situations.

You hear that, Malor? Go find that option. My Samsung plasma lets me select anywhere from 1 to 4 pixel shift. Sadly, even with last gen games, the HUD's are just a bit too big to be handled by that and image retention happens. At least the games look way better on my plasma than they ever did on an LCD. This may also be due to everything below 720p (I think) being upscaled to 1080i by my Onkyo receiver.

My new Sony LCD even suffers from some image retention.. its not quite the same as my Pioneer Plasma though as I dont believe its quite the same effect.. its the effect of the pixels "shutting down" and trying to reproduce "blacks"

TheGameguru wrote:
Chairman_Mao wrote:

fwiw I've used my panny plasma as a pc monitor for a couple years now. I move icons around periodically, but I've seen zero burn in. I think the whole thing is a myth at this point. I believe HDguru even left a plasma on for something like a week showing one image and nothing was burned in.

most plasma uses a "pixel shifting" technology that will even help in those situations.

I've wondered about the pixel shifting feature. is there an option for it? I can't find it on mine, or maybe i don't know what it's called.

Chairman_Mao wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:
Chairman_Mao wrote:

fwiw I've used my panny plasma as a pc monitor for a couple years now. I move icons around periodically, but I've seen zero burn in. I think the whole thing is a myth at this point. I believe HDguru even left a plasma on for something like a week showing one image and nothing was burned in.

most plasma uses a "pixel shifting" technology that will even help in those situations.

I've wondered about the pixel shifting feature. is there an option for it? I can't find it on mine, or maybe i don't know what it's called.

Do you have a Panasonic? Seem to remember you do. I think it's called Pixel Orbiter on the Panasonics.

Congrats, Malor! And I agree with par - big TVs are easy to get used to. When I got my 52" LCD a couple years back, I briefly feared it was too big. Now I think I could go for a 65".

tuffalobuffalo wrote:
Malor wrote:

Seventh impression: oh crap, I gotta be careful about using this thing, because it's a plasma -- I always have to remember image retention issues. And I shouldn't play any more games until I'm past the first hundred hours. But this is SO much nicer than the LCDs I saw in the store that I don't mind at all.

Isn't that a complete Plasma Myth? I thought that was just an issue with early Plasmas.

I'm completely jealous. That must be a gorgeous TV. :)

Any truth to the belief that plasma TV's do not work well at high altitudes?

MannishBoy wrote:
Chairman_Mao wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:
Chairman_Mao wrote:

fwiw I've used my panny plasma as a pc monitor for a couple years now. I move icons around periodically, but I've seen zero burn in. I think the whole thing is a myth at this point. I believe HDguru even left a plasma on for something like a week showing one image and nothing was burned in.

most plasma uses a "pixel shifting" technology that will even help in those situations.

I've wondered about the pixel shifting feature. is there an option for it? I can't find it on mine, or maybe i don't know what it's called.

Do you have a Panasonic? Seem to remember you do. I think it's called Pixel Orbiter on the Panasonics.

hmm I don't see it in either the picture or setup menu. I wonder if their Chinese tvs have fewer features. For example, VIERAlink is not included on mine. Leaving Pixel Orbiter out seems silly though.

I realized that God of War 3 has no persistent GUI, so I went ahead and kept playing that. After spending a few hours with the screen, there's two things that really stick out about a plasma. First, as you move around, the colors stay exactly the same. If it's blue straight on, it'll be blue at a 45 degree angle. So you don't get the subtle color gradations you get on a large LCD that you're close to. Second, the entire screen is always the same brightness, because it's the pixels themselves that are emitting the light, instead of a bulb or bulbs behind the screen that are being partially blocked by an LCD. You don't get any hot spots or backlighting weirdness, because there's no backlight.

This LCD screen, for instance, is 30", which is large enough that the edges aren't quite the same color and brightness as the center, unless I move my head to square up the angle with them. And then the far edge is WAY off, and the center looks like the edges did. It's not bad enough to bother me, I stopped noticing it a long time ago, but I sure do notice when the effect disappears. It looks almost funny in a way -- I subconsciously expect the edges to be dimmed and color-shifted, and they just aren't.

I the GWJer standard advice, "buy a plasma", is very well-founded. You have to be aware of image retention, and they pull more power, but they are just drop-dead gorgeous. People talk about buzzing as being a problem with plasmas, but I have to put my ear right up next to the screen to hear it on this unit. I can't hear it even a foot away.

I don't have any way to test lag -- don't own Rock Band -- but people on AVSForum are saying it's extremely low.

I'd say the 2011 Sammies should definitely be on the short list. I went for Samsung because the 2011 Pannies are apparently having issues with a perceived flickering; to try to reach the Energy Star numbers, they apparently turn the brightness of the screen up and down to cut energy use in dark scenes, which is bugging the crap out of some folks. That may get fixed in a firmware update, but I figured it was best avoided.

Yup.. pretty much in short if you want to get as close to the old CRT quality of videogaming you have to get a quality Plasma.

So, TV gurus, if I'm buying a new TV and can talk my wife into a Panasonic VT30, is that the way to go? I know Samsung has come on strong, and I see Malor loves his, but I'm under the impression Panny has fixed the issue that plagued earlier sets in this line.

Times like this I ask myself...what would Gameguru do?

Fedaykin98 wrote:

So, TV gurus, if I'm buying a new TV and can talk my wife into a Panasonic VT30, is that the way to go? I know Samsung has come on strong, and I see Malor loves his, but I'm under the impression Panny has fixed the issue that plagued earlier sets in this line.

Times like this I ask myself...what would Gameguru do? ;)

Buy 4 different TV's use them all.. sell the 3 inferior to friends at vast discounts.. or put them in different rooms for "later"

TheGameguru wrote:
Fedaykin98 wrote:

So, TV gurus, if I'm buying a new TV and can talk my wife into a Panasonic VT30, is that the way to go? I know Samsung has come on strong, and I see Malor loves his, but I'm under the impression Panny has fixed the issue that plagued earlier sets in this line.

Times like this I ask myself...what would Gameguru do? ;)

Buy 4 different TV's use them all.. sell the 3 inferior to friends at vast discounts.. or put them in different rooms for "later"

All after siphoning off some of your surplus income to several other goodjers who are patiently awaiting adoption approvals.

NSMike wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:
Fedaykin98 wrote:

So, TV gurus, if I'm buying a new TV and can talk my wife into a Panasonic VT30, is that the way to go? I know Samsung has come on strong, and I see Malor loves his, but I'm under the impression Panny has fixed the issue that plagued earlier sets in this line.

Times like this I ask myself...what would Gameguru do? ;)

Buy 4 different TV's use them all.. sell the 3 inferior to friends at vast discounts.. or put them in different rooms for "later"

All after siphoning off some of your surplus income to several other goodjers who are patiently awaiting adoption approvals.

HEY!!! I think your talking about me.

How is my application for adoption going.

This is all hilarious, but anyone want to talk TVs?

Seriously, what's your favorite (currently available) TV, folks?

I have 3 right now. An older Panasonic 50" 1080P Plasma, a 46" Sharp LCD, and a new Sony 3D 55" LCD. I like my Plasma the best. I do all my gaming on that.

I think the general consensus over on AVS Forum is that the Pannys are very slightly better, but that the small extra bump in picture quality costs a lot more money. That last 5% adds about 20% to the cost of the screen.

Depending on your budget and intended use for the TV, going with a Samsung might let you move up a size class for about the same price.

The specific one I have is the 6500 model, I believe in 59" size. The 7000 series handles ambient light better, and the 8000 adds something else, but I forget what. The 6500 seemed like the overall sweet spot in price/performance -- and it sure didn't hurt that it was on a big sale when I got it.

I think the VT30s are the high-end Pannys, slightly better than the 8000s, but only just a little bit.

Best TV even now is the old Pioneer 60" Elite KURO Plasma's.. getting hard to find at this point now as the last batch rolled out in 2008.. but they are 1080P and have most of the required bells and whistles (other than 3D bleh)

But they are $6000+ for the most part brand new... but the PQ and Performance is killer.. One of the guys I work with has one and has his 360 connected.. its glorious... especially if you have a pro calibrate it AND match it with a great 7.1 calibrated system and good viewing space.

Thats a set though that you will look to replace in 2018 if you bought it in 2008..lol

Guru - my brother has a 60" Kuro. It's nice.

I'm considering going 65". I'm under the impression that the best new TV I can buy today is a Panasonic VT. I also like the connectivity options like Amazon Instant Video, since I'm already a Prime subscriber. I'd drop my Netflix streaming at that point.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

Guru - my brother has a 60" Kuro. It's nice.

I'm considering going 65". I'm under the impression that the best new TV I can buy today is a Panasonic VT. I also like the connectivity options like Amazon Instant Video, since I'm already a Prime subscriber. I'd drop my Netflix streaming at that point.

Yeah if I was buying a new TV today it would probably be a 65" Panny VT. Unless I had some odd viewing requirement, mounting issue, or budget reason there is no reason to go with anything other than a Plasma and a Panny..

I think at this point, I'd probably go Panasonic GT. Nothing on the VT sounds like stuff I need over the GT, and I think they have the same panels.

I'd really like a bigger screen, but will most likely wait until next summer at this point to get next years models. At least if 3D takes off, they'll have a standard for glasses by then.

I'm not really interested in 3D now, but if next gen consoles use it effectively, it might be nice to have the option anyway.

Just finishing up building the dream home and installing these guys:

Sharp - AQUOS 70" Class / LED / 1080p / 120Hz / Model:LC70LE732U (Main home theater TV)

VIZIO E472VL 47-Inch Class LCD HDTV with VIZIO Internet Apps (Wall Mounted Master Bedroom TV)

I'll let you know how they pan out.

Yeah, if you want the best running, damn the price, get a Kuro if you can find one. If you want the best you can reasonably find, get a Panny VT. If you're willing to trade off just a _little_ quality, and save quite a lot of money, Samsung is a great solution.

I'll tell ya, this 59" Samsung is glorious. It is just beautiful. I still haven't calibrated it yet, because I'm waiting until I've got enough time on it for it to be properly burned in, but my impression is that the color is just about as good as my old Sony HD CRT. That is the highest possible praise I could give it. And, of course, it's much sharper.