2012 US Presidential Race Catch All

The existence of this thread depresses me. It means it's time for the Democrats to start tacking even more rightward again.

I think the reason moderate, establishment Republicans have largely stayed out of the race so far is that they are in the uncomfortable position of being caught between Barack Obama (who is by all sincere and honest measures a center right politician along the lines of Ronald Reagan) and the batxhit crazy Tea Party folks. Either they have to admit that Obama is not a baby murdering socialist and accept that there are few meaningful differentiators between him and moderate Republicans or they have to hunt for territory among the lunatic fringe.

Paleocon wrote:

I think the reason moderate, establishment Republicans have largely stayed out of the race so far is that they are in the uncomfortable position of being caught between Barack Obama (who is by all sincere and honest measures a center right politician along the lines of Ronald Reagan) and the batxhit crazy Tea Party folks. Either they have to admit that Obama is not a baby murdering socialist and accept that there are few meaningful differentiators between him and moderate Republicans or they have to hunt for territory among the lunatic fringe.

That cannot happen as long as Fox news and the Tea party are around. If/when Obama wins reelection, it will be interesting to see if the GOP goes either further right, or cuts the loonies lose.

Dezlen wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

I think the reason moderate, establishment Republicans have largely stayed out of the race so far is that they are in the uncomfortable position of being caught between Barack Obama (who is by all sincere and honest measures a center right politician along the lines of Ronald Reagan) and the batxhit crazy Tea Party folks. Either they have to admit that Obama is not a baby murdering socialist and accept that there are few meaningful differentiators between him and moderate Republicans or they have to hunt for territory among the lunatic fringe.

That cannot happen as long as Fox news and the Tea party are around. If/when Obama wins reelection, it will be interesting to see if the GOP goes either further right, or cuts the loonies lose.

I don't know that they have the ability to cut the loonies loose. They may have already gathered enough power and influence within the party that they aren't wagging the dog.... they ARE the dog.

Given the, well, let's call it "thin" selection of electable candidates this year, I'm wondering if the "serious" GOPers aren't just going to wait for 2016?

Nevin73 wrote:

Given the, well, let's call it "thin" selection of electable candidates this year, I'm wondering if the "serious" GOPers aren't just going to wait for 2016?

I could see that. Then again, one could also use this as a test run for GOPers to prepare for 2016.

I would be VERY surprised if a) someone beats Obama in 2012, and b) a Democrat wins in 2016.

Seth wrote:
Nevin73 wrote:

Given the, well, let's call it "thin" selection of electable candidates this year, I'm wondering if the "serious" GOPers aren't just going to wait for 2016?

I could see that. Then again, one could also use this as a test run for GOPers to prepare for 2016.

I would be VERY surprised if a) someone beats Obama in 2012, and b) a Democrat wins in 2016.

I dunno, I think we will have to wait and see what happens in the next couple years to see if a Democrat has a snowballs chance in 2016 or if the GOP embraces their crazy, goes all Darth Vader on us and hands the election to the Democrats again.

Nevin73 wrote:

Given the, well, let's call it "thin" selection of electable candidates this year, I'm wondering if the "serious" GOPers aren't just going to wait for 2016?

That would be my bet. 2012 has a "Bob Dole in '96" feel to it; they've got to throw somebody out there.

Santorum, "a frothy mixture of arch-conservative and douchebag", will be announcing in early June it seems. Man, I would almost rather have Palin than that asshat.

In the spirit of the @BPGlobalPR BP parody, there's a RickSantorumPR account on twitter.

Dimmerswitch wrote:

In the spirit of the @BPGlobalPR BP parody, there's a RickSantorumPR account on twitter.

That is f*cking brilliant, especially when you know the definition of "santorum".

Nevin73 wrote:
Dimmerswitch wrote:

In the spirit of the @BPGlobalPR BP parody, there's a RickSantorumPR account on twitter.

That is f*cking brilliant, especially when you know the definition of "santorum".

"I promise we're going to penetrate the Washington establishment in a way it hasn't been since J Edgar Hoover."

Dimmerswitch wrote:

In the spirit of the @BPGlobalPR BP parody, there's a RickSantorumPR account on twitter.

@RickSantorumPR wrote:

We know we have a lot of work ahead, but by the end of this year, Santorum will be on the lips of every young Republican.

iaintgotnopants wrote:
Dimmerswitch wrote:

In the spirit of the @BPGlobalPR BP parody, there's a RickSantorumPR account on twitter.

@RickSantorumPR wrote:

We know we have a lot of work ahead, but by the end of this year, Santorum will be on the lips of every young Republican.

:D

I think this one was my favorite (spoilered because it's fairly inappropriate):

Spoiler:

"It is my promise to the American people to never withdraw, no matter how long, hard, or bloody this becomes."

Am I the only one hoping that the thing she feels "tugging at her heart" is really a massive blood clot?

On the one hand, I could say that I went to the same high school as a president. But, on the other hand, it would be the dumbest person to ever be the president.

I predict that at 12:30pm EDT, Thursday, June 2, Mitt Romney will officially announce that he is running for President.

WizKid wrote:

I predict that at 12:30pm EDT, Thursday, June 2, Mitt Romney will officially announce that he is running for President.

I've read something about that on the news. Can he beat Obama? They mentioned he's not conservative enough but It's sometimes better to support someone that can win rather than pushing someone too controversial and losing.

Like I've said before, Obama has already staked out the center right ground. The only way a Republican can run is to take the loony Right positions and scream about the "socialism" of positions St. Reagan would have and did take.

Paleocon wrote:

Like I've said before, Obama has already staked out the center right ground. The only way a Republican can run is to take the loony Right positions and scream about the "socialism" of positions St. Reagan would have and did take.

Yeah...if Obama changed his skin color, he could easily switch to an (R) after his name. In fact, I would be interested in seeing a Presidential election featuring Obama and Kucinich.

Seth wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

Like I've said before, Obama has already staked out the center right ground. The only way a Republican can run is to take the loony Right positions and scream about the "socialism" of positions St. Reagan would have and did take.

Yeah...if Obama changed his skin color, he could easily switch to an (R) after his name. In fact, I would be interested in seeing a Presidential election featuring Obama and Kucinich.

A white Obama would certainly appeal to any residual moderate Republicans might remain, but I'm pretty sure they have been hunted to extinction.

You guys are getting Obama no matter what you vote that's the beauty of American democracy. With a Republican congress and very little to lose (reelected presidents do whatever they want) he'll make a mess of your country if he manage to do anything.

I'm sure our Bibi can get along with Obama just fine(Show me the money) . In Israel's last election Kadima got the most parliament seats but they didn't win Likud with 1 or 2 fewer seats got the power. The British had a 3 way stalemate . The US is stuck in a 2 party system. That's almost a dictatorship.

Niseg wrote:

reelected presidents do whatever they want [...] The US is stuck in a 2 party system. That's almost a dictatorship.

What the hell. Are you incapable of responding without saying ridiculous nonsense?

He's not facing reelection so he can do whatever he wants. I think I heard that when I took political science on 1998-99 Fall Term. I'm not sure because it was so long ago.

What a two party system fail at is representing the true voice of the people. The candidate always aim for dead center trying to get the most votes. They also rely on the swing states so they have more power than the other states who traditionally vote the same. The votes are farther diluted by the winner take all electoral votes. The electoral college was specifically designed to take power from the people so the elected people get to choose the president ( guess they were fearing anarchy I don't remember my US history that far back).

You can't really balance your vote by voting extreme left or right like in other country. Sometimes when everyone vote for the candidate the want people get the worst possible outcome.

The issues you have in your country are generally none issue in other countries especially because all your president seem to keep the things the way they are. If you really want to affect government you form a lobby and exert pressure. That's how things seem to work in the USA.

Niseg, as an American, I should point out that your "understanding" of the American political system is at least as hilariously ignorant as I'm certain my understanding of the Israeli political system is to you.

To be fair I've heard the same assessment of the two party and electoral college system that Niseg just outlined and that was from college professors here in the US. Of course the professors I heard this from were usually big conspiracy theorists too. But, regardless, I've heard the following lines numerous times throughout my life:
"both parties are the same so any choice between the two is imaginary"
"nobody in Washington actually represents the interests of consituents, only of the lobbyists"
"the electoral college nullifies the will of the people and Americans only have the illusion of a democratically elected government"

etc. So to say Niseg is completely ignorant of the American system would be the same as saying a good portion of Americans are ignorant of the American system. Which, when I think about it, is fairly accurate.

BadKen wrote:
Niseg wrote:

reelected presidents do whatever they want [...] The US is stuck in a 2 party system. That's almost a dictatorship.

What the hell. Are you incapable of responding without saying ridiculous nonsense?

No.

IMAGE(http://abovethelaw.com/_old/images/entries/troll%20treasure%20troll%20doll%20patent%20troll%20Above%20the%20Law%20blog.jpg)

There is a huge difference between a Democracy "captured" by Industry, an oligarchy, whatever and a dictatorship. I think Obama is a terrible president and has extended the reach of the US police state. Not sure why you find him so odious, Niseg. Other than the possibility pictured above.

Other than walking back (kind of) US foreign policy on Israel what leads you to believe he's "destroying America" and that he's a dictator? As far as I know we are still waging wars against Muslims, running a police state and sending money to Israel. You should love that our dictatorship's foreign policy largely defers to Israeli interests.

Niseg wrote:

He's not facing reelection so he can do whatever he wants. I think I heard that when I took political science on 1998-99 Fall Term. I'm not sure because it was so long ago.

He is facing re-election. You don't really know what you're talking about, do you?

Dirt wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

I think this is something people underestimate. If you think JFK had an uphill climb convincing people he was Christian enough wait until you see what comes out with a Mormon general election candidate.

We just might. There are 2 politically moderate Mormons getting ready announce running for President. It's going to be tough for them to get the GOP nom, but I think their (from initial readings) politics could get them the General Election win.

This is from the Palin thread and thought it was more appropriate to respond here. What moderates, GOP or Dems, have a snowballs chance in Sheol to defeat Obama? Or to even win the GOP nomination?