The Witcher 2 Catch-All

mwdowns wrote:

Also, does the Prologue story seem a little disjointed to you? Form a "let's get into the head of amnesiac Geralt" I guess it's good at giving me that same feeling of rediscovering something. But on the other hand I'm kinda lost in the story and not sure where it's going.

Did you play through The Witcher? The second game doesn't seem to pull any punches as far as jumping right into the middle of the story again with minimal exposition. Also I'm sure the fact that they have a LOT of variables to carry forward from a TW1 save file doesn't help.

I think it probably would also help to have read the books, especially when concerning Geralt's missing memories. I haven't though, so not really sure if that's the case or not.

drdoak wrote:

sweet jesus this game is hard. I thought I had combat down, then there were near-infinite spawns of monsters.

If you mean the Nekkers...

Spoiler:

Destroying the nests stops them spawning in large numbers in the woods - although 1 or 2 will still show up afterwards now and again. And although it may seem there's an infinite amount of them in caves they do run out eventually. I think once you hit around level 8 or 9 they cease being much of a threat even in larger groups and you can the litle ones down in a couple of quick hits. They also seem to like getting into fights with the bugs and the occasional Drowner, so you might be able to use that to your advantage as well.

I'm not sure that playing the original really means much in terms of jumping into the story, the only thing you really know about is the first assassination attempt.

It is a disjointed style, but that's a story telling style I really like. The author gives you the bits and pieces and lets you put them together yourself. It's also reminiscent of The Last Wish which has a storyline, but is told mostly through flashback vignettes.

Finished the Prologue. Seem to get where things are going now, but there's a lot of names to keep track of. Similar to the original.

A big complaint, though...playing through on normal should not be a slog. And the Endender (or whatever they're called) on the outskirts of Flotsam) Contract is a slog on normal. Way more difficult than it should be. I must have reloaded 20 times trying to get through one section. That's bordering on "not fun." Also, the controls on a keyboard are very imprecise. Knowing a trap is there does not mean I won't set it off while trying to get close enough for the "disarm" icon to pop up. Very annoying in the forest.

These guys are completely incompetent as game designers.

That is all.

It really does seem like they need some difficulty between easy and normal

4xis.black wrote:

These guys are completely incompetent as game designers.

That is all.

Care to expand on that?

mwdowns wrote:

Finished the Prologue. Seem to get where things are going now, but there's a lot of names to keep track of. Similar to the original.

A big complaint, though...playing through on normal should not be a slog. And the Endender (or whatever they're called) on the outskirts of Flotsam) Contract is a slog on normal. Way more difficult than it should be. I must have reloaded 20 times trying to get through one section.

Never really had too much of a problem with the bugs...
not sure if you'll find this helpful but here's my observations of them:

Spoiler:

for the small ones, watch for their 'tell' that they are about to charge and dodge out of the way and make sure to use the potion that offers (30% i think) poison resistance. and then of course make sure not to get surrounded by them.

The queens are pretty tough cookies and you should probably leave and deal with them later, but again, once you figure out it's attack patterns it's not that tough to take one down. Whack it a couple of times in the head then dodge backwards when you start hitting it's carapace as it's about to shoot out it's mandibles, and watch for it moving into position for it's charge attack, which is damn near a one-shot kill if it hits you without a shield up. I think the key is the posion resistance and the shield ability which you should keep active - don't bother trying to hit it with any other magic, it doesn't seem to have much effect on it.
I never really tried bombs on it but I'm sure it helps - if only to interrupt it's various special attacks. A Swallow potion to keep your health up is also useful.

I haven't used traps at all but since you can control when the queen's appear you can trap the hell out of the area before summoning them which will likely give you an edge.

Once you deal with the queens then you only ever have random encounters with one or two of the smaller bugs in that area after that point.

More than any other RPG I've played I think preperation BEFORE getting in a fight is incredibly useful - make sure you've got all the traps and bombs that you think you'll need in advance of getting into a fight, quaffed whatever potions will help and make sure to read up on the creatures you are fighting in-game.

So far I think like people above, the only time I've hit something that feels really unfair is a specific fight mentioned above near the end of the chapter.

Also worth noting that several reviews of the game note that the opening chapter when you are still low leve is probably the hardest. The higher level you get the easier it gets because you unlock more abilities, so it's worth persevering.

4xis.black wrote:

These guys are completely incompetent as game designers.

That is all.

I KNOW! Sheesh! I mean I'm pressing all these keys and the awesome just doesn't want happen! Nobody explodes in a shower of blood or ANYTHING.

Worst. Game. Ever.

stevenmack wrote:

More than any other RPG I've played I think preperation BEFORE getting in a fight is incredibly useful - make sure you've got all the traps and bombs that you think you'll need in advance of getting into a fight, quaffed whatever potions will help and make sure to read up on the creatures you are fighting in-game.

My general problem with that, more than specifically with TW2 is that it relies on you being prescient as to when big fights are coming. With the fairly short duration of enhancements in TW2 you don't really want to buff up when a big fight is 'sometime soon' but right before. For some big fights, like when you're monster hunting, you can do it on your terms but not always

stevenmack wrote:

Also worth noting that several reviews of the game note that the opening chapter when you are still low leve is probably the hardest. The higher level you get the easier it gets because you unlock more abilities, so it's worth persevering.

If anything, it makes me appreciate TW1's starting areas, you can't really have an army siege around an castle defended by incompetent pushovers, it doesn't make sense. I can see that there's a balance between easy enemies that may get boring, and challenging enemies that could be a little more mentally stimulating.

I think you're right 4xis, it's a great big difficulty spike and I can't say I've seen anyone defending that fight on any forum comments I've read. I wouldn't be surprised if CDPR have any sense if that fight is 'tuned' a bit. If they indicate they're going through the campaign doing adjustments like that in future, I will probably put off doing another playthrough until it's done.

The other thing that fight highlights for me is how difficult it can be to get repeatable results in some fights. I know sometimes you get unlucky, but the game punishes you quite hard at points, and I'm not sure how I feel about whether it's a good or a bad thing.

[Why isn't there a delete comment button]

I wouldn't even call it a 'difficulty spike', because that fight is not 'difficult' in any desirable sense. It is a 'cruelty spike'.

I think it's a little much to condemn them as worst game designers ever because of one unbalanced boss fight.

That said, what I think they should maybe have done is...

Spoiler:

if/when you get reduced to 0 health it just jumps you to the point where he overpowers you - since you get beaten anyway. and maybe just give you a nice XP or ability bonus if you happen to get to that point being personally defeated in the fight.

also you may want to spoiler tag that fight specific stuff just to be on the safe side (see several posts above).

I think my argument here can be summarized with the following question: Did anyone here, playing on normal difficulty or above, defeat Letho without resorting to one or two easily-repeatable exploits involving grenades and/or something like rolling behind him and stabbing him once in the back over and over?

There are some spoilers about the fight in here, but it's perfectly safe for anyone who has played beyond that point:

Spoiler:

Let's examine this fight firstly from the perspective of verisimilitude. Imagine if, after the fact, the quest log read: "And then Geralt of Rivia, the famed witcher and ladykiller, threw about 60 grenades that he had clairvoyantly wheeled into the temple beforehand at the monstrous Letho, making the exact same motion over and over again while rolling occasionally from one side of the room to the other (as he had done in the brothel some nights before)." In no way can this scene resemble an actual action sequence between the characters Geralt and Letho (unless of course Geralt is beaten into a bloody pulp within about 30 seconds). The previous major bossfight, though featuring the usual game tropes, was at least designed to resemble during gameplay the scene it was narrating.

Next, mechanics. There The fight falls into a sadly common trap encountered by designers attempting to balance a fight between two more or less identical characters, one human and one AI. When the two characters have identical stats, the AI is hopelessly unable to compete tactically against the human, and since making good AI is wicked hard the obvious solution is to simply dial up the AI's stats until they actually exceed the human character's by a somewhat comical margin. Letho can cast all the same spells as Geralt, use two sorts of grenades, and block virtually any attack directed at his front. Additionally, Geralt is staggered upon attempting to attack Letho's magic shield allowing a counter (even when doing so from behind) whereas Letho simply finishes his attack animation on Geralt without doing damage. (And Geralt is allowed to roll while Letho cannot.) I don't know the specifics on Letho's damage numbers versus Geralt's, but I don't really need to: Letho's massive HP advantage essentially means that any attack he lands counts for ~5-20 hits by Geralt. Thus, in a sword fight, Geralt must catch Letho not guarding about 5 times for each time Letho catches Geralt not rolling properly (or, using magic/grenades, probably closer to 20 times). This is not interesting in a tactical sense; it will almost certainly cease to have any value as a game before the fight's halfway point. Nor does it produce the sort of fast-flowing dance-like dynamics we would expect to experience between two exceptionally quick swordfighters; it is, instead of that, a grind that rewards exceptional defensive skills with a slight knick and punishes small defensive mistakes with a huge gash. (Offensive skills, meanwhile, are met with outright failure.) It is rather similar to a crossing a tightrope in the wind, except instead of punishing the acrobat with death or injury he just has to start at the beginning over and over. (Do you think doing that would be interesting by try number 50?) And returning to the story for a moment, it seems like the script does not call for a long, bone-grinding marathon of a fight; to borrow a hockey idea, this is clearly not intended to be the third overtime period of an elimination game. The way this fight happens seems completely incongruous with the way it is apparently supposed to happen.

And if I may spoil the immediate aftermath of the fight:

Spoiler:

Geralt loses! You just spent god knows how long figuring out how to beat this guy for the privilege of watching the game knock you the f*ck down and let the bad guy walk away. Your horrible, anti-fun ordeal is rewarded with a cliched defeat you were probably expecting anyway. Can anyone think of a single situation in which it's a good idea to have the player win a fight with their own skill just to have their avatar lose it afterwards in a cutscene? And it's not like he loses it because of some devious trick or unforeseen situation; the dude just knocks him over, completely invalidating the vast swath of gameplay you just experienced.

Lastly, could there have been any QA testing on this sequence at all? Would there have been even one playthrough in which the tester (even if he was on the freaking development team) actually beat that fight in a reasonable way and said "It's perfect, leave it right there"?

Is there any justification for this segment of the game at all? Can we even discern good intentions on the part of the authors? Why did they do this?

I suppose I should clarify. The game's story elements are very good; its atmosphere is exceptional. I haven't read the books, but I would like to think they did a good job of adapting them into a workable RPG framework. These are all areas of game design in which The Witcher 2's creators clearly excel. But in terms of straight ludology, this boss fight demonstrates incompetence on the part of whoever designed the sequence as well as laziness in terms of narrative. (And whoever allowed it to get into the final release made a foolish oversight).

I can see where everyone is coming from here. So I guess I'll just expand a bit on my thinking on the game so far. Like most here I love the story in the Witcher games. I haven't read the stories, but playing the game makes me want to. The story and atmosphere is what keeps me going. "So why don't you dial down the difficulty, then," you might ask. Well, I like games too, and I don't want to be spoon-fed my game, so I figure that normal would be perfectly fine. As per the description in the manual, normal should require a bit of swordplay and magic/alchemy. That's right up my path and exactly how I played TW1. Here, though, I feel like I'm getting beat down and beat down when I'm trying to use my signs and bombs and potions as much as I can.

Right now I'm about 8 or so hours in of playtime, but actual game time (as in story progression) is much less cause I'm constantly having to redo bits where I keep dying. I keep going, however, for the story...and the hope (as you all say) that it gets easier as I gain levels.

Side topic: Is it me or did the English-language voice actor for the Kingslayer change from the promo video that came out a year or more ago? I remember the voice being more gruff and haggard, whereas the current voice actor doesn't really fit my perception of what he should sound like.

I just finished the Prologue, and I'm loving the game. The difficulty is a bit annoying (I'm playing on normal), but once I buckled down and learned how to use traps and bombs, it became much easier.

One question for you guys that are farther than I am:

Spoiler:

Do I get my stuff back, or did I miss a chest somewhere that had all my armor and stuff? I got to the boat without finding it.

TheCounselor wrote:

I just finished the Prologue, and I'm loving the game. The difficulty is a bit annoying (I'm playing on normal), but once I buckled down and learned how to use traps and bombs, it became much easier.

One question for you guys that are farther than I am:

Spoiler:

Do I get my stuff back, or did I miss a chest somewhere that had all my armor and stuff? I got to the boat without finding it.

Spoiler:

It should be on a chest on the boat when you arrive in chapter 1 if memory serves.

mwdowns wrote:

Side topic: Is it me or did the English-language voice actor for the Kingslayer change from the promo video that came out a year or more ago? I remember the voice being more gruff and haggard, whereas the current voice actor doesn't really fit my perception of what he should sound like.

They did change the voice actor yeah, for the worse IMO.
About the difficulty though, it's silly to not play on easy if you're not having fun with the combat because it's too hard.

Letho took two tries for me. Didn't abuse bombs and only had "Swallow" on my for the first minute of the fight. Early on though I had picked a lot of vitality abilities, then headed right for swordsmanship, so every one of his attacks I was able to parry without damage. Also make sure you have made yourself the Kayran armor before fighting him because really that armor is just awesome.

I'm finding Normal to be just the perfect difficulty and honestly wouldn't want it any other way.

I'd pay $5 for a copy of the journal that I could have on my iPad.

mwdowns wrote:

Right now I'm about 8 or so hours in of playtime, but actual game time (as in story progression) is much less cause I'm constantly having to redo bits where I keep dying. I keep going, however, for the story...and the hope (as you all say) that it gets easier as I gain levels.

So far at least I can confirm that it definitely gets easier going into chapter 2 on normal. you still have to pay attention, especially with groups of things, but thus far it's been fine. Probably helps that you're no longer in the dense foliage of the swampy woodland as well and can see your surroundings a little clearer.

Stylez wrote:

Also make sure you have made yourself the Kayran armor before fighting him because really that armor is just awesome.

I totally didn't realise that was a thing. Another item for the 2nd playthrough checklist I think.

stevenmack wrote:

I totally didn't realise that was a thing. Another item for the 2nd playthrough checklist I think.

Be sure to browse through crafting diagrams for sale and ones you might have found. There's lots of good stuff you can craft, Silver swords in particular.

Spoiler for Act 1 & 2

Spoiler:

I just found out that Síle is working with the kingslayers, but if that's the case then why couldn't she teleport Letho to Aedirn instead of him kidnapping Triss to do it?

If that's answered later in the game then don't tell me!

kyrieee wrote:
Spoiler:

I just found out that Síle is working with the kingslayers, but if that's the case then why couldn't she teleport Letho to Aedirn instead of him kidnapping Triss to do it?

Well, you see--

kyrieee wrote:
Spoiler:

If that's answered later in the game then don't tell me!

--whop!

chapter 1 boss spoilers:

Spoiler:
Stylez wrote:

Letho took two tries for me. Didn't abuse bombs and only had "Swallow" on my for the first minute of the fight. Early on though I had picked a lot of vitality abilities, then headed right for swordsmanship, so every one of his attacks I was able to parry without damage. Also make sure you have made yourself the Kayran armor before fighting him because really that armor is just awesome.

I'm finding Normal to be just the perfect difficulty and honestly wouldn't want it any other way.

I've find it perfect except for that fight. It's still poor design if others didn't use similar upgrades as you or get the Kayran armor (I never could find that damn diagram anywhere), it is just plain unfair. Since it is unfair, you have to end up finding an unfair way of beating it like using 20-30 bombs.

Like a knob I forgot to loot the Kayran, so couldn't make the armour. My upgraded Raven armour is still pretty decent. I did struggle with the fight in question, so I just turned it down before I got frustrated.

I do agree that the game could be better designed, but overall I'm getting tired of over-designed modern games. A bit of an old school ass kicking is refreshing. Remember how people complained about Dragon Age Origins?

MrDeVil909 wrote:

Like a knob I forgot to loot the Kayran, so couldn't make the armour. My upgraded Raven armour is still pretty decent. I did struggle with the fight in question, so I just turned it down before I got frustrated.

I do agree that the game could be better designed, but overall I'm getting tired of over-designed modern games. A bit of an old school ass kicking is refreshing. Remember how people complained about Dragon Age Origins?

You might be right. The ass-kicking is refreshing most of the time. I'll admit that.

MrDeVil909 wrote:

Like a knob I forgot to loot the Kayran, so couldn't make the armour. My upgraded Raven armour is still pretty decent. I did struggle with the fight in question, so I just turned it down before I got frustrated.

You're better off that way. The Kayran armour has a hood which makes Geralt look like a Sith Lord in cutscenes. I think I'm actually gonna switch back to the Raven armour. The Kayran trophy is quite useful though, +50 vitality.

kyrieee wrote:

The Kayran trophy is quite useful though, +50 vitality.

Nice! I hadn't even noticed that it give me extra vitality.

I didn't think DA:O was overdesigned, although I'm not sure I quite understand what you're saying. I could see that word applying to something like Portal2.

As for the rough edges, I can definitely see what you mean there. It's a very fine line between getting something like STALKER or something by Obsidian, or just something where you're left thinking it could have been a whole load better if it wasn't neutered in a load of aspects. It just seems like studios are so scared of something unintended happening with their 'game experience' that they block off everything that's not critical, while forgetting that some brilliant things are the result of unintended results that end up defining whole types of new gameplay, and gods forbid your players have fun with something you didn't intend.

Spoiler:

When we both simultaneously cast the shield spell, I had a, "crap we're both wizards!" moment. Then I thought about what I hoped he wouldn't do to me, and did that to him:

Discharged his shield with throwing knives, dove in with level 2 Chuck Norris special, and wailed on him when he tried to recast the shield.

First try, never got touched, and as usual I had ignorantly neglected to take potions. Now the giant squid thing took a while.

This game is so much better than the original it's not really believable. They should call this Witcher 1, and rename the other to Witcher: Crap Edition.

Not know much about the universe, I have a few questions. Why does he have two swords? Is it because he keeps losing one? Can girls be witchers too?