2012 US Presidential Race Catch All

Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:

I wonder what laptop The Savior is rockin'.

From the screen to keyboard ratio it looks like an early model Thinkpad.

Thread detours like this remind me that GWJ is a biodome of awesome in the parched wasteland of the Internet. Still trying to work out which one of you is Pauly Shore though...

It's commonly known that Jesus is an Apple fan. Have you all forgotten about Adam & Eve?

Bear wrote:

It's commonly known that Jesus is an Apple fan. Have you all forgotten about Adam & Eve?

Are you saying Jesus is Satan?

LouZiffer wrote:
Bear wrote:

It's commonly known that Jesus is an Apple fan. Have you all forgotten about Adam & Eve?

Are you saying Jesus is Satan?

Only if Jesus buys Eve an iPad, no?

So Huntsman is now saying he would have supported the House Republican plan to privatize Medicare. And this guy was supposed to be the moderate choice....

Also: ST. PAUL, Minn. – Former Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty, a laid-back Midwestern Republican who governed a Democratic-leaning state, is running for president and will declare his candidacy on Monday in the leadoff caucus state of Iowa, an adviser told The Associated Press.

Pawlenty will now spend the next six months declaring on Fox that every political compromise he made while governing the Democratic-leaning state was a terrible, awful mistake that will never happen again. Ever.

Here's what gives me hope that Obama is going to thrash the Republicans once they find a candiate.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43110820...

More than half of Americans say same-sex marriage should be legal, garnering the same rights as traditional marriages, according to a newly released Gallup poll showing for the first time since Gallup began tracking the issue in 1996 support by a majority of Americans.

The increase since last year — when 44 percent versus this year's 53 percent supported legalizing same-sex marriages — came exclusively among political independents and Democrats. Views of Republicans didn't change from last year, with 28 percent supporting gay marriage both years.

The middle are with the Democrats right now. The Republicans that cater to crazy are going to appeal to fewer and fewer voters. I just have a hard time believing that the majority that support gay marriage are going to find anything useful in what the Tea Partiers have to say.

What about Ryan? What about... S-bastard, Pennsylvania... Santorum, that's it! (Thank you, Google!)

For that matter, are they grooming a vat-grown C-streeter we don't yet know about?

And is Senator Crankypants McCain too old to grab the nod?

Chris Christie of NJ?

And what of Bobby Jindal? He's a pretty dark feller.

I think that if the Republican want to win they should move Republican voters to states which are borderline Republican and win using demographics . Now with a majority in congress they should suggest stuff like giving California back to the Mexicans.

It's a fact the Democratic party is close to socialism . Socialism might be good but you'll end up paying a lot of taxes for it. It would also be problematic if people don't protect their own health (by smoking and drinking excessively ) because a lot of the money spent on healthcare may be wasted on treating self inflicted illnesses.

Each healthcare system has it's own advantage and disadvantages . Turning government healthcare into a business isn't such a bad idea. Government run organizations are usually not as efficient as private businesses .

They are more effective, they just cost a lot more. A corporate system will be more efficient and with a huge country like the states it might be better but here in Aus I don't have to worry that much if I get a serious injury. Also Socialism is a lot more than public health care. There are even countries with free (or close to it) health care that I would argue don't come close to being a socialist state.

This seems kind of weird arguing about foreign elections and parties. Dam US culture is so prevalent that I kind of feel connected to it, far more than other foreign elections.

ef Politics.

Jayhawker wrote:

The middle are with the Democrats right now. The Republicans that cater to crazy are going to appeal to fewer and fewer voters. I just have a hard time believing that the majority that support gay marriage are going to find anything useful in what the Tea Partiers have to say.

Ron Paul's position has softened over the years, he's now in the standard libertarian camp of "the government shouldn't be involved in marriage one way or the other" and people should be able to make any voluntary associations they like.

Gary Johnson's position is is similar, but doesn't go quite as far - in that interview he says he supports unions, but then backs up and says the government should not be involved in marriage.

However, the current polling indicates that gay marriage is not high on the list of issues voters care about - the economy and unemployment are at the top of the list. And if people are really serious about reining in government spending, there's only two candidates with a track record of actually doing that - Johnson and Paul.

Aetius wrote:

However, the current polling indicates that gay marriage is not high on the list of issues voters care about - the economy and unemployment are at the top of the list. And if people are really serious about reining in government spending, there's only two candidates with a track record of actually doing that - Johnson and Paul.

Two things.

One, I'm not saying that gay marriage is a voting issue. But if folks are coming around to gay marriage, there is no way they are interested in Tea Party influenced Republicans. While Obama is not strong on the economy and unemployment, he's still better than the folks carrying around the socialism signs in the mind of average voter. The Tea Party is a little like Hillary Clinton. They have fans, but they are also so divisive that a majority can't stand them. You can view people that view gay marriage as either rational folks that have come around or crazy liberals, but neither are the type that that will vote for Tea Party supported candidates, in my opinion.

Two, neither Johnson nor Paul are getting the Republican nomination, so the point is moot.

Aetius wrote:

However, the current polling indicates that gay marriage is not high on the list of issues voters care about - the economy and unemployment are at the top of the list. And if people are really serious about reining in government spending, there's only two candidates with a track record of actually doing that - Johnson and Paul.

The average voter is serious about the *idea* of reining in government spending. As soon as they realize that cutting government means they don't get a benefit they quickly lose interest. Just witness all the videos of newly minted Tea Party Republicans holding town hall meetings and getting a bunch of angry people in their face over the plan to ditch Medicare for vouchers.

As always, the next election will be about the economy. If unemployment continues to drop and people honestly feel more secure about their lives--that they won't lose their job or their house--then Obama is a shoe in. If the economy is still sluggish a year from now, then who knows.

Jayhawker wrote:

One, I'm not saying that gay marriage is a voting issue. But if folks are coming around to gay marriage, there is no way they are interested in Tea Party influenced Republicans. While Obama is not strong on the economy and unemployment, he's still better than the folks carrying around the socialism signs in the mind of average voter. The Tea Party is a little like Hillary Clinton. They have fans, but they are also so divisive that a majority can't stand them. You can view people that view gay marriage as either rational folks that have come around or crazy liberals, but neither are the type that that will vote for Tea Party supported candidates, in my opinion.

I think people are still trying to figure out the Tea Party and the Tea Party is doing the same itself. It seems, however, that the fiscal conservative version of the Tea Party has been replaced by a social conservative version. There was a lot of talk about jobs and the economy during the election, but now Tea Partiers are spending a lot more time talking about (and creating legislation about) abortion, gay marriage, creationism, and other wedge issues.

House Republicans are threatening to hold up relief for the Joplin tornado victims as part of their budget battle with democrats.

Seems like an odd fight to pick when the TV news is filled with images of sobbing, God-fearing elderly and middle-class white people roaming around a middle American town searching for dead friends and relatives. I really wonder if they've lost touch with who votes for them each cycle.

Funkenpants wrote:

House Republicans are threatening to hold up relief for the Joplin tornado victims as part of their budget battle. Seems like an odd fight to pick when the TV news is filled with images of God-fearing elderly and middle-class white people roaming around a middle American town searching for dead friends and relatives. I really wonder if they've lost touch with who votes for them each cycle.

One more nail in the coffin for a Tea Party candidate.

Funkenpants wrote:

House Republicans are threatening to hold up relief for the Joplin tornado victims as part of their budget battle with democrats.

Seems like an odd fight to pick when the TV news is filled with images of sobbing, God-fearing elderly and middle-class white people roaming around a middle American town searching for dead friends and relatives. I really wonder if they've lost touch with who votes for them each cycle.

And in the same month that they voted to preserve $40 Billion in tax breaks for oil companies.

Dimmerswitch wrote:

And in the same month that they voted to preserve $40 Billion in tax breaks for oil companies.

Oil companies fund their campaigns. I doubt the people of Joplin, MO contribute much money to any political campaign.

Niseg wrote:

It's a fact the Democratic party is close to socialism.

Are we collectively just ignoring the trolling now? How did it take 3 days for this little nugget to be pointed out?

Seth wrote:
Niseg wrote:

It's a fact the Democratic party is close to socialism.

Are we collectively just ignoring the trolling now? How did it take 3 days for this little nugget to be pointed out?

I took it as either tongue-in-cheek or just something to be ignored.

Seth wrote:
Niseg wrote:

It's a fact the Democratic party is close to socialism.

Are we collectively just ignoring the trolling now? How did it take 3 days for this little nugget to be pointed out?

It's a fact that most people who accuse something of being socialism don't understand what socialism means.

And I include myself in that.

Socialism means money is invested to help people people .It take some of the ideas of communism but without the "equal rewards for uneven contributions". Anyone that supports Medicaid and expanding it can be considered socialist . Socialist ideas help you get the vote of poor people. They pay less taxes but will get rewarded by government. This is not a capitalistic point of view.

I live in a socialist country so I know how it is. Lots and lots of government workers and strikes. (unions = socialism).

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't derail the topic ;).

No need for a derail.

Dimmerswitch wrote:

And in the same month that they voted to preserve $40 Billion in tax breaks for oil companies.

I saw a host on CNBC the other day who accused the democrats of trying to take away oil company profits. By removing a government subsidy.

For the record, we're all socialist here. It's just a semantic debate about how far left or right we end up on the spectrum. It's a silly term used to derail topics with an ad hominem argument.

Jayhawker wrote:

For the record, we're all socialist here. It's just a semantic debate about how far left or right we end up on the spectrum. It's a silly term used to derail topics with an ad hominem argument.

Agreed. Unions != Socialism... collective bargaining is capitalistic. Conservatives value corporate rights and profits above workers rights and wages. Taglines make topics easier to understand at the risk of confusing the issue.

Jonman wrote:
Seth wrote:
Niseg wrote:

It's a fact the Democratic party is close to socialism.

Are we collectively just ignoring the trolling now? How did it take 3 days for this little nugget to be pointed out?

It's a fact that most people who accuse something of being socialism don't understand what socialism means.

And I include myself in that.

Well, yeah. Obama's a socialist because he took classes taught by a socialist and read books by socialist authors. The only way to not be a socialist is to have no knowledge at all of the subject. If you've studied the philosophy at all, you're a socialist. If you know how to spell it, you're a socialist.

Gotta run, J. Edna Hoover's at the door.

The only way to not be a socialist is if the only two books you've ever read are the King James Bible and Atlas Shrugged.

Paleocon wrote:

The only way to not be a socialist is if the only two books you've ever read are the King James Bible and Atlas Shrugged.

Jesus was into universal health care and food redistribution. You're stuck with Ayn Rand.

This is how I how I believe it will go wth all Tea Party favorites com election time. The independents will run away in pretty large numbers. Can the Republicans get a non-Tea Party friendly candidate on the ticket?

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news...

*** Palin’s polarizing numbers: A final point about a Palin bid: She has an awful lot of hurdles to overcome to reach the White House. Our April NBC/WSJ poll found her with a 25%-53% fav/unfav score, with just 9% viewing her VERY POSITIVELY (her lowest number here ever in the poll) and with 41% viewing her VERY NEGATIVELY (her highest number here). In addition, her fav/unfav among independents is 19%-54%, while it’s 48%-25% among Republicans, 63%-7% among Tea Party supporters, and 6%-83% among Democrats. In other words, she’s adored by conservatives, but not by anyone else. But check that last number on Republicans on more time: One in four REPUBLICANS have an unfavorable view of her. That's not just a hurdle; it's a potential roadblock.
Seth wrote:
Niseg wrote:

It's a fact the Democratic party is close to socialism.

Are we collectively just ignoring the trolling now? How did it take 3 days for this little nugget to be pointed out?

I have no idea. I'm at a point where I see this kind of hyperbole and it doesn't surprise me. When that happens, when I expect someone on the message board to say things that feel like trolling, I think that's bad for reasonable debate.