Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword Catch-All

Redwing wrote:
FedoraMcQuaid wrote:

First thoughts:
This map is terrible.

Yeah, clearly whoever designed Eastern Europe wasn't thinking clearly, Calradia is obviously superior.

It's funny though, the game is set in a period and area I have very little knowledge of, it actually feels more alien than Calradia in a lot of ways.

I realize that it's based off real world but that doesn't make it any better.
It's open and boring, borders are confusing/non-existent, and the colors aren't very well defined making it even harder to tell the factions apart.

FedoraMcQuaid wrote:

I realize that it's based off real world but that doesn't make it any better.
It's open and boring, borders are confusing/non-existent, and the colors aren't very well defined making it even harder to tell the factions apart.

Oh I wasn't disagreeing, it certainly seems a little bland... hopefully the other improvements will make up for it, I'm already liking the firearms, although it sure makes bandits more deadly.

People are whining about M&B:WFAS all across the internet, which is a bummer because I was really looking forward to this newest release. Most complaints are "I build my guys up but they get one-shotted by guns across the map" and "I get shot by a gun and the battle's autocalc is utter garbage".

Typical release whining? Maybe, but those seem like legitimate complaints.

Sounds like people need to reassess their tactics. I can see people complaining about getting splattered by guns if they play this like Warband or Vanilla. Still, I haven't played that far into it yet, perhaps it's worse than it seems.

I was doing fine until I decided to attack a group of deserters who all had rifles and good armor. Now, after being taken prisoner several times, I'm alone with no horse, no weapons, and no shoes. Life has become difficult for Dude Duderson and morale is very, very low.

I guess fate just doesn't want a guy named Dude Duderson ruling eastern Europe. Have you tried a more fate-friendly name like Bro Brahdawg

I like a lot of what they did, but holy crap screw firearms. Those things freakin suck.

It feels a lot like the old 1866 mod with the firearms... That may sell a few people on it

I'm not a fan of the map.

It seems a lot tougher to get established.

Bar fights are broken and easily exploited for cash. the Kick move has a stagger effect and can be spammed for unlimited $25 bets if you're patient enough.

AnimeJ wrote:

I like a lot of what they did, but holy crap screw firearms. Those things freakin suck.

I've already had a line of 20 or so of my troops all fire at once and take down a stack of looters. That really makes up for it.

Redwing wrote:
AnimeJ wrote:

I like a lot of what they did, but holy crap screw firearms. Those things freakin suck.

I've already had a line of 20 or so of my troops all fire at once and take down a stack of looters. That really makes up for it. :D

I had a rant about getting 1 shot by firearms typed up last night that I didn't post because I wanted to try this.

I'll build my army right this evening and, while going will be slow, it should prove effective.

I think the main problem people have with the guns is that they're just so random. They're terribly unwieldy to use, inaccurate, take ages to reload, and the larger ones can't be used while on horseback, I certainly managed to kill more enemies much quicker with a decent bow in Warband. But, all it takes is a lucky shot from a pleb on the opposing side and you're down, because they sure do pack a punch. It's more like a dice roll than anything to do with skill. However, that's pretty much how guns changed warfare in a nutshell, so I can't really bring myself to complain because it's a pretty interesting take on early firearm warfare, which hasn't been done much before, if at all. I can certainly understand why that'd annoy the crap out of people though.

Personally, I'm really enjoying it so far, I'm playing on foot and using my troops as a meat-shield so I'm mostly avoiding the stray fire. I'm sure I'll get sick of the guns now and then, but then I can always go back and play Warband, Fire and Sword doesn't supercede it, only provides an alternative.

Redwing wrote:

I think the main problem people have with the guns is that they're just so random. They're terribly unwieldy to use, inaccurate, take ages to reload, and the larger ones can't be used while on horseback, I certainly managed to kill more enemies much quicker with a decent bow in Warband. But, all it takes is a lucky shot from a pleb on the opposing side and you're down, because they sure do pack a punch. It's more like a dice roll than anything to do with skill. However, that's pretty much how guns changed warfare in a nutshell, so I can't really bring myself to complain because it's a pretty interesting take on early firearm warfare, which hasn't been done much before, if at all. I can certainly understand why that'd annoy the crap out of people though.

Personally, I'm really enjoying it so far, I'm playing on foot and using my troops as a meat-shield so I'm mostly avoiding the stray fire. I'm sure I'll get sick of the guns now and then, but then I can always go back and play Warband, Fire and Sword doesn't supercede it, only provides an alternative.

That really is how firearms changed warfare. The first few decades of firearms were decidedly inferior to bows, except for raw power, but it was much easier to train people to load and fire a gun than to be skilled with a bow. It is interesting that the game replicates that feel. I wonder if it will be "balanced" in the future if there is enough interweb whining.

Redwing wrote:

However, that's pretty much how guns changed warfare in a nutshell, so I can't really bring myself to complain because it's a pretty interesting take on early firearm warfare, which hasn't been done much before, if at all. I can certainly understand why that'd annoy the crap out of people though.

And this was supposed to be the selling point, right? Realistic map, firearms? I bought the game, haven't played this version yet, but the complaints are what I am going in expecting. Guns ruin a good fight, so I intend to get some and ruin it in my favor.

Sounds pretty realistic. And yeah, that could be un-fun... particularly if you like the idea of leading from the front. There's a reason people stopped doing that.

So right now I'm "eh" on Fire and Sword. I'm only an hour or so in, but I'm really disappointed that you can't recruit from towns anymore. Most of my time was spent trying to find looters to wallop. There seems to be less "outlaw" types running about.

Dude Duderson rides again!

Down on his luck, he took to the taverns to drink away his sorrows. While there, he discovered decent coin could be made challenging the locals to fights. Moreover, the locals were dumb and would fight and lose over and over by running into his well-timed kicks until they got tired (thanks Prozac). So, Dude became a touring boxer, slowly changing his fortune. He bought a cheap polearm and some boots and then the oldest, cheapest bow-backed nag he could find. He rode from town to town taking on all challengers.

In the tavern of some nameless Polish town, he was reunited with one of his lost companions and welcomed her back into the party. "Watch this," he said, as he pummelled a local for five rounds and won a little coin.

Heading to the nearest mercenary camp, Dude hired some marksmen. "Here's some coin and cheese and cabbage," he said. "You sleep in that tent and we'll sleep over here."

Suddenly, with a few men at his command, Dude's confidence returned and he decided he could take on bandits and looters again. After one battle, he found a rifle. After another, a better set of boots, a thicker jacket, and a heavily armoured helmet. He ransomed some prisoners and freed some new troops -- a bunch of crazed, musket-wielding horsemen. "Now," said Dude, "now things are getting interesting."

I,I "Enjoy a vacation in scenic St. Dudersberg!"

Hypatian wrote:

I,I "Enjoy a vacation in scenic St. Dudersberg!"

I am definitely looking forward to next month's issue of "The Good, The Bad, and The Dude".

Do shielded infantry work against firearm troops?

I'm actually enjoying the musket fights. I set up a line of muskets with some back up halberdiers and then go antagonize the enemy on horseback. I'm thinking about bring along a dozen or so horseback musketeers to flank with me.

Keep the feedback coming, folks. I'm interested but it would be hard to displace M&B/M&B:W in my ladder of esteem.

Senkrad wrote:
Redwing wrote:

I think the main problem people have with the guns is that they're just so random. They're terribly unwieldy to use, inaccurate, take ages to reload, and the larger ones can't be used while on horseback, I certainly managed to kill more enemies much quicker with a decent bow in Warband. But, all it takes is a lucky shot from a pleb on the opposing side and you're down, because they sure do pack a punch. It's more like a dice roll than anything to do with skill. However, that's pretty much how guns changed warfare in a nutshell, so I can't really bring myself to complain because it's a pretty interesting take on early firearm warfare, which hasn't been done much before, if at all. I can certainly understand why that'd annoy the crap out of people though.

Personally, I'm really enjoying it so far, I'm playing on foot and using my troops as a meat-shield so I'm mostly avoiding the stray fire. I'm sure I'll get sick of the guns now and then, but then I can always go back and play Warband, Fire and Sword doesn't supercede it, only provides an alternative.

That really is how firearms changed warfare. The first few decades of firearms were decidedly inferior to bows, except for raw power, but it was much easier to train people to load and fire a gun than to be skilled with a bow. It is interesting that the game replicates that feel. I wonder if it will be "balanced" in the future if there is enough interweb whining.

Redwings complaints match mine pretty much to a tee, all the way down to enjoying the realistic aspect, even if it is incredibly frustrating to get my behind handed to me for bad luck rolling my way in the first fight.

So, with that said since you can't recruit from towns any more, what's the method to building your army?

Mercenary camps and Mercs in Taverns.

Prozac wrote:

Mercenary camps and Mercs in Taverns.

So no more taking raw village boys and raising 90% of them to meat shields and 10% to be my personal guard!?!?

Are there still levels and branches to train your army? I heard you can customize their outfits and equipment now, which could be interesting or it could be quite a time sink. What about the village "quests", like where you spend some days training the villagers to fight off bandits? That was one of the things that really hooked me on the first M&B. I didn't really like trying to herd cattle for them, but it still made me feel good.

I have it installed now, but I won't be able to try it until Friday or maybe even Sunday, and then next weekend will probably be taken up with Brink

I have come to each preceding M&B game well after they were released, so I've been surprised to see some of the bugs I've come across. Most of them have been on the map screen -- graphical glitches primarily, things I've never encountered in the other two games.

Also, I missed the first "talking to the elder" quest after the tutorial and didn't notice it until later. When I eventually showed up, one of the quests he gave me never "fired" -- i.e., the people I was supposed to find were nowhere to be found.

Also, side note: Shooting an enemy's horse out from under him in one shot and watching your infantry swarm the fallen rider never gets old.

AnimeJ wrote:

Redwings complaints match mine pretty much to a tee, all the way down to enjoying the realistic aspect, even if it is incredibly frustrating to get my behind handed to me for bad luck rolling my way in the first fight.

I wouldn't call them complaints as such, I'm really enjoying the game, and the firearms are a really interesting aspect of that. I can see them getting frustrating (I can only imagine how painful assaulting a keep will be now), but for now, it's a refreshing change of pace from Warband.

Redwing wrote:

I can only imagine how painful assaulting a keep will be now

*groan*

Are there cannons? Because there's a reason people stopped hiding behind giant stone walls (they were useless and your army was trapped in 1 place).

Without artillery those walls will be nigh unassailable.

Redwing wrote:
AnimeJ wrote:

Redwings complaints match mine pretty much to a tee, all the way down to enjoying the realistic aspect, even if it is incredibly frustrating to get my behind handed to me for bad luck rolling my way in the first fight.

I wouldn't call them complaints as such, I'm really enjoying the game, and the firearms are a really interesting aspect of that. I can see them getting frustrating (I can only imagine how painful assaulting a keep will be now), but for now, it's a refreshing change of pace from Warband.

Complaint is not the best word, but it was all I had time for. Issues? Frustrations? I dunno, you pick. I love the game regardless of the frustration.

AnimeJ wrote:
Redwing wrote:
AnimeJ wrote:

Redwings complaints match mine pretty much to a tee, all the way down to enjoying the realistic aspect, even if it is incredibly frustrating to get my behind handed to me for bad luck rolling my way in the first fight.

I wouldn't call them complaints as such, I'm really enjoying the game, and the firearms are a really interesting aspect of that. I can see them getting frustrating (I can only imagine how painful assaulting a keep will be now), but for now, it's a refreshing change of pace from Warband.

Complaint is not the best word, but it was all I had time for. Issues? Frustrations? I dunno, you pick. I love the game regardless of the frustration.

Observations perhaps? Sounds nice and neutral.

Works for me. Now, to slaughter foes with Fire and Sword!