Osama Bin Laden is dead!

93_confirmed wrote:

From Lobster's Wikileaks Thread:

It can also today be disclosed that:

*A senior Al-Qaeda commander claimed that the terrorist group has hidden a nuclear bomb in Europe which will be detonated if Bin-Laden is ever caught or assassinated. The US authorities uncovered numerous attempts by Al-Qaeda to obtain nuclear materials and fear that terrorists have already bought uranium. Sheikh Mohammed told interrogators that Al-Qaeda would unleash a “nuclear hellstorm”.

Oh come on! It's the Americans who kill Bin Laden and then we the Europeans get the nuclear hellstorm? Not cool Al Qaeda, not cool ><

MrDeVil909 wrote:

Apparently CNN is reporting that Bin Laden has been buried at sea? If this is true that seems screwy.

I'm guessing this is because they wanted to respect the Islam rituals of burying the dead within a day. This probably to not piss off the muslim world. They rightfully ignored that this will fuel many, many conspiracy theories.

dejanzie wrote:
MrDeVil909 wrote:

Apparently CNN is reporting that Bin Laden has been buried at sea? If this is true that seems screwy.

I'm guessing this is because they wanted to respect the Islam rituals of burying the dead within a day. This probably to not piss off the muslim world. They rightfully ignored that this will fuel many, many conspiracy theories.

Except Muslims are not to be buried at sea. The 24 hour rule can be smudged, but a Muslim must be buried on land.

Personally I don't believe it. Conspiracy theories are inevitable, but the US won't encourage them, a very sudden burial at sea will just fuel the fire.

One way they can extend the allowable period for his burial is to spend some time trying to find a place to send his body. Most countries won't accept it, and those that will the US won't want to have it, so that gives them a few days.

He'll probably end up buried somewhere secret in the US, or one of their territories.

No-one needs him alive, he's a figurehead not a mastermind. Al Qaeda and Bin Laden were useful stand-ins for an enemy nation as it's hard to prosecute a war against disparate islamist terrorist cells. You need an Emmanuel Goldstein to focus the hate.

MrDeVil909 wrote:
dejanzie wrote:
MrDeVil909 wrote:

Apparently CNN is reporting that Bin Laden has been buried at sea? If this is true that seems screwy.

I'm guessing this is because they wanted to respect the Islam rituals of burying the dead within a day. This probably to not piss off the muslim world. They rightfully ignored that this will fuel many, many conspiracy theories.

Except Muslims are not to be buried at sea. The 24 hour rule can be smudged, but a Muslim must be buried on land.

Personally I don't believe it. Conspiracy theories are inevitable, but the US won't encourage them, a very sudden burial at sea will just fuel the fire.

I did not know sea burials are out for Muslims. As I read in a Belgian newspaper that they want to give him a proper Islam burial, I suspect these rumours are false as well.

DSGamer wrote:
i38warhawk wrote:
DSGamer wrote:
iaintgotnopants wrote:

They just interviewed a group of girls that were woo-woo'ing like they were at the club. It made me a little sick.

It's odd. It's definitely really odd. The thing that's been very strange about 9/11, though, especially as we've launched multiple wars following it, is that there has never been a "V-E Day". There has never been a definitive "hey, we won" moment. I'm not terribly surprised.

It's hard to win a War on Terror, the language is too vague. You can win every battle and still never end the war.

Indeed. I'll go wave flags and sing in front of the White House when Gitmo is closed, the Patriot Act repealled and our foreign wars ended.

The best comment in this thread so far. Add "and the US has cleaned up its mess in the Middle East" and drinks are on me.

CrawlingChaos wrote:

Nevermind that Al-Qaeda recently threatened a "nuclear hellstorm" in Europe if he was killed.

If anyone had a nuclear bomb in place to set off, they'd just do it. They wouldn't wait for a special event.

Also, don't you think it's quite a step up from someone hiding a bomb in his underpants to a complex international operation to construct, conceal, and transport a nuclear bomb?

It's a ridiculous story, and I haven't seen a single news organisation in Europe reporting it.

For everyone imagining there are conspiracies going on regarding the special forces operation, remember they were conducting an operation in the middle of Pakistan, at night, and that there is no time for careful deliberation or thoughtful decisions. While special forces are special, they don't have magical control over a situation, and wins and losses are based on very fine margins.

Imagine for a moment if the operation had gone wrong, and there were now three helicopters worth of special forces dead and captured inside of Pakistan.

If he was shot in the head I doubt it was much of a firefight .I would guess that multiple torso hits would be more common in those cases or shrapnel from grenades.

Either the soldiers were ordered to kill him maybe it got complicated. It's better to capture the terrorist alive and get intelligence out of them. In general in western countries criminals are giving a fair trial and then punished. I'm not sure if the US has a federal death penalty but Israel doesn't (captured terrorists get a fitting jail time). I guess they preferred Osama dead or presumed dead rather than him being a bargaining card when kidnapping happen or something like that.

Don't you remember Bush's "dead or alive" comment. Maybe we literally followed an old time-y western poster.

His mention of talking to the Pakistani authorities makes it sounds like they weren't informed beforehand. Entirely understandable from an operational security point of view, but it's an interesting precedent to set.

Sonicator wrote:

His mention of talking to the Pakistani authorities makes it sounds like they weren't informed beforehand. Entirely understandable from an operational security point of view, but it's an interesting precedent to set.

Funny thing is, according to CNN, the US has said they kept the operation secret, but Pakistani officials have said they knew about it.

Now I would expect the Pakistanis to say that to save face, but even if the US did keep it secret I would expect them to be quiet about this to maintain the illusion of their relationship.

Sonicator wrote:

His mention of talking to the Pakistani authorities makes it sounds like they weren't informed beforehand. Entirely understandable from an operational security point of view, but it's an interesting precedent to set.

That's an astute observation. When the dust settles I think there will be a discussion to be had about the US's runaway war on terror and how we've changed since 9/11. I'm not shedding tears for Bin Laden (I feel like I'll be doing lots of qualifying over the next few months, ugh) but it is a huge extension of US hubris to decide we can go into foreign countries without their consent and conduct kill or capture missions with our military.

Imagine if one day someone decided it was time to hold Bush to account for the war in Iraq and they entered the US with special forces and took him out. I'm guessing we wouldn't be pleased about that violation of our sovereignty.

Sonicator wrote:

His mention of talking to the Pakistani authorities makes it sounds like they weren't informed beforehand. Entirely understandable from an operational security point of view, but it's an interesting precedent to set.

I agree but the precedent has been set a couple years ago, the US have been conducting raids in Pakistan for years and have stopped giving a heads up to the Pakistan authorities a long time ago.

The Pakistani government is being reported as not having been told in advance, but is of course saying it was told in advance.

Given the lack of immediate outrage from the Pakistani government, it's possible the US had, in advance, arranged some sort of special dispensation to carry out this kind of operation. It could have been many years in advance. That way they'd have permission to do it, but wouldn't have to tell anyone when the time came.

Similar to the agreement the US managed to secure where it was tracking Pakistan's nuclear weapons around the country.

So the Pakistani government could say it was told, even though it wasn't told.

I found it interesting that, during the speech, Obama never once used the phrase "war on terror". He correctly identified this act as a crucial point in the war on al Qaeda. One of the biggest mistakes of the previous administration was declaring war on a means of violence rather than a political entity. The "war on terror" was as ridiculous as a war on air power or fire and maneuver tactics. It was meaningless and led to the inevitable mission creep that gave us the clusterfornication of Iraq.

Points to Obama.

I noticed that seemingly all participants in the NY celebration (except the firemen) were about 8 years old when 9/11 happened. At least it seems so from these pictures on a Belgian newspaper site.

Oh, and the photo of a dead Osama released on Pakistani tv is a Photoshop that's been circulating on the Internet since 2009. It will take a while before the bullsh*t is separated from the truth in this news story.

Now The Guardian is saying that the burial at sea has happened. Hmmm, think that's weird.

MrDeVil909 wrote:

Now The Guardian is saying that the burial at sea has happened. Hmmm, think that's weird.

I'm starting to think "pics or it didn't happen". The wirld deserves visual evidence for true closure. Would the Islamic community really be that upset if we kept the body for a while and/or chose an alternative burial method? If so, they're sympathizers and probably already hate us.

My first reaction was of course "f*ck YEAH!" but it took me about 30 seconds to feel an immense sense of sadness. Osama was the last bit of self-righteousness we had left about 9/11. He was the one thing that we could still legitimately point to as a goal and say "Look, we were attacked, we have to get this guy." You guys are probably old enough to remember how it was after 9/11, the world had our back. We were doing something worthwhile and righteous, because we had to get Al Qaeda.

The sadness came from the sinking realization that Gitmo, torture, rendition, survelliance state, multiple secret wars constantly being fought, this is the new normal. This is no longer a response to 9/11. It never was. It's about a changing world and our place in it. And America's place in this new world, compared to what we were before, is kinda tragic. That last glimmer of righteouness and "the end of history" has burnt out. This is no longer about America the good, just America the powerful.

I never thought the death of Osama Bin Laden would depress me so much, but these are weird times.

Like I said earlier, Pyroman, I hope this means we start the hard work of dismantling the hair-pin trigger country in a constant state of fear that sold out its values and liberties. Hopefully we can beging to atone for some of what we did wrong. If not then what feels like closure to some is going to be quite painful to those of us who want America back.

MrDeVil909 wrote:

Apparently CNN is reporting that Bin Laden has been buried at sea? If this is true that seems screwy.

They tried that with Megatron and we all know how that worked out.

MrDeVil909 wrote:

Now The Guardian is saying that the burial at sea has happened. Hmmm, think that's weird.

In a tribute to the navy seals that took this bastard out they should bury his ass on Seal Beach!

I may even watch "G.I. Jane" tonight!

Bout time we get some good news.

Some stuff I've learned since last night:

- He was shot in the head after resisting.
- Two couriers and his brother were also killed, and a woman they were using as a shield was injured.
- Geraldo reported that US troops killed Obama (nice).
- This happened about 20 feet from the Pakistan Military Academy.
- They buried him at sea to prevent other extremists from visiting his grave.
- They apparently announced this before completing the DNA tests, meaning we're one negative result away from the most embarrassing mistake in the universe.

Pyro, I see where you're going and I don't question your emotional response, but remember that we haven't used Bin Laden as an excuse in years. Until this, it seemed like he was no longer a priority.

I understand your sadness but this is pretty much the only way this could have ended.

What Pyroman said.

The thing that struck me about this was that he was found in a mansion, in an affluent neighborhood in Pakistan.

After all the stories about how he was hiding in some remote cave in the afghanistan mountains, and we would never be able to find him there, and...wait....why are we in afganistan?

Not to sell this event short. There is something to be said for our enemies knowing that we will go to the ends of the earth to revenge attacks on us, as a detterent. However, this really shoots the logic or the war in afghanistan all to hell. Course, now we're there, and I expect that is going to be what matters.

Of course, the deterren theory only applies if they are not from a society who values matrydom...oh crap.

PyromanFO wrote:

My first reaction was of course "f*ck YEAH!" but it took me about 30 seconds to feel an immense sense of sadness. Osama was the last bit of self-righteousness we had left about 9/11. He was the one thing that we could still legitimately point to as a goal and say "Look, we were attacked, we have to get this guy." You guys are probably old enough to remember how it was after 9/11, the world had our back. We were doing something worthwhile and righteous, because we had to get Al Qaeda.

The sadness came from the sinking realization that Gitmo, torture, rendition, survelliance state, multiple secret wars constantly being fought, this is the new normal. This is no longer a response to 9/11. It never was. It's about a changing world and our place in it. And America's place in this new world, compared to what we were before, is kinda tragic. That last glimmer of righteouness and "the end of history" has burnt out. This is no longer about America the good, just America the powerful.

I never thought the death of Osama Bin Laden would depress me so much, but these are weird times.

DSGamer wrote:

Like I said earlier, Pyroman, I hope this means we start the hard work of dismantling the hair-pin trigger country in a constant state of fear that sold out its values and liberties. Hopefully we can beging to atone for some of what we did wrong. If not then what feels like closure to some is going to be quite painful to those of us who want America back.

It's like I don't even need to bother to post anything here.

If I have one thing to add, it's that I hope like hell that we can get our troops back home sooner than later. There's nothing more tragic than brave men & women putting their lives on the line for us, and the best we can do is degrade our image in the world even more, and put our country in more danger in the process. I have too much respect for their sacrifice to be able to stomach our meddling in foreign affairs.

Huzzah

gizmo wrote:

The thing that struck me about this was that he was found in a mansion, in an affluent neighborhood in Pakistan.

After all the stories about how he was hiding in some remote cave in the afghanistan mountains, and we would never be able to find him there, and...wait....why are we in afganistan?

Not to sell this event short. There is something to be said for our enemies knowing that we will go to the ends of the earth to revenge attacks on us, as a detterent. However, this really shoots the logic or the war in afghanistan all to hell. Course, now we're there, and I expect that is going to be what matters.

Of course, the deterren theory only applies if they are not from a society who values matrydom...oh crap.

Well, don't discount the possibility that he started out in Afghanistan...then traveled to Pakistan at some point over the last decade.

But yes, I will be interested to see what, if any, effect this has on our operations in Afghanistan. Though IIRC, the mission there lately hasn't specifically been to kill/capture Bin Laden, but rather to clear the Taliban.

Not really comfortable with all the celebrations. It looks exactly like the celebrations that you see from radical Muslims when anything bad happens to a Western idealogue.

Well, except for the basket catches.

I joined the military after September 11th, I have been waiting for this day for a long time. I am so glad that we were able to kill that bastard. And of course it was the Navy Seals, who else could pull this off besides the Navy. Go Navy!

These look nothing like the celebrations from radical muslim groups. I don't see any Americans burning any book or flag or dragging someone through the street like an animal. There is nothing wrong with celebrating his death as an American. And waving US flags and cheering, you are mistaken sir.