NFL 2011 Draft Thread

* Teams don't value "NFL readiness" for QBs as highly as I do on my board. Christian Ponder and Ryan Mallett were the highest ranked QBs on my board in large part because both guys are the most "ready" to step onto an NFL field and run an NFL offense. Teams took three QBs before Ponder, all of whom I consider "project" guys versus "NFL ready" guys, and only one of whom I had a 1st round grade on.

I disagree about Mallett (I think he's too much of a potential headcase and can't move well enough to be of much value to teams with crappy lines, despite being the most 'complete' pocket passer of the bunch) but I agree with you that NFL GMs have shown way too much gambling... which isn't necessarily bad, and with a rookie wage scale is actually a good thing as the risk/reward makes sense.

Ahhh, looks like the Bears botched the trade with Baltimore. Jerry Angelo never called in the pick.

I agree that they should still get the 4th round pick they were promised, but then again I'd like to see them get that pick.

Minase wrote:

I disagree about Mallett (I think he's too much of a potential headcase and can't move well enough to be of much value to teams with crappy lines, despite being the most 'complete' pocket passer of the bunch)

Well, the "head case" question is an issue, though I consider it separate from field readiness. And you're right about Mallett needing to fit in a system, but that's really not different from a DE needing to be on a 4-3 team instead of a 3-4 one.

(I have, however, struggled with the question of whether my like for Mallett is like my love of grunge-era plaid shorts - in other words, is it outdated? Is the pure pocket passer still relevant going forward, or is it going to fade like the fullback? Is the Aaron Rodgers/Josh Freeman model - which most of the top QB picks follow - the new prototype?)

Here's the thing about Mallett. I think he has a good head for football. And part of what set that opinion in me was his Gruden QB Camp. For half the show, it seemed like there wasn't anything going on upstairs, just "yes sir", "yes sir", "yes sir" to everything Gruden said.

Then Gruden asked him to go to the whiteboard and diagram a play.

It's like someone found the "ON" button on Mallett because he came alive. As he diagrammed the play and described every route concept and blitz adjustment they'd do out of that play, two things became apparent to me:

1) Bobby Petrino has the Razorbacks running a very pro-style offense. Not just pro-style in terms of personnel groups and that the QB gets under center, but pro-style in the level of sophistication in how they react to the defense.
2) Mallett completely "got" Petrino's offense.

These are things that people that talked to the Razorbacks have said, but it was different seeing it demonstrated.

I considered the possibility that the white board session was pre-planned and pre-coached, but that left the question as to why didn't Newton have such a pre-scripted answer, and why none of the other QBs were quite so engaging in their white board breakdowns (of course, guys like Gabbert were drawing up silly spread plays because that's what they ran).

(I have, however, struggled with the question of whether my like for Mallett is like my love of grunge-era plaid shorts - in other words, is it outdated? Is the pure pocket passer still relevant going forward, or is it going to fade like the fullback? Is the Aaron Rodgers/Josh Freeman model - which most of the top QB picks follow - the new prototype?)

That's a much better way of writing what I was trying to say - is the 'Drew Bledsoe Pocket Statue' era over? Is there just too much value in the 'dual-threat' guys, or are robo-QBs like P. Manning just too hard to find?

Or even more likely, was this draft just a horrible QB draft?

*Legion* wrote:

I considered the possibility that the white board session was pre-planned and pre-coached, but that left the question as to why didn't Newton have such a pre-scripted answer, and why none of the other QBs were quite so engaging in their white board breakdowns (of course, guys like Gabbert were drawing up silly spread plays because that's what they ran).

Well, I heard it mentioned somewhere that Mallett's father is a football coach, which contributes to his football IQ being so high.

Minase wrote:

Or even more likely, was this draft just a horrible QB draft?

I don't think that at all. I love this QB draft. There are more potential starters in the group than any recent draft.

But it's a "Major League" group of black sheep where everyone's got some black mark against them. What there isn't were any shoo-in franchise guys. I can't imagine drafting one of them at #1. I'm iffy enough about the Jags taking one at #10 but that's still worlds better than #1. I get that you have to take a shot at a QB sooner or later or you just starve, but if you're at pick #1, you have to be taking a near-guaranteed franchise guy. I just cannot escape that conclusion.

But for everyone else, this was a good year to "take a shot". Tennessee, Jacksonville and Minnesota got guys like Locker, Gabbert and Ponder at #8, #10 and #12 - compare to how the Jets had to jump to the #5 spot to get Mark Sanchez.

Heard on SIRIUS NFL Radio that the Bengals tried to trade up to #32 for purpose of selecting a QB, but Green Bay turned down the offer.

Cincy was trying to go from 35 to 32, which is 550 to 590 points. A 40 point throw-in for GB would have been a 5th round pick. Thompson must have decided a 5th wasn't worth risking losing Sherrod, and I agree with him. Smart move.

Question is, what QB does Cincy covet? I think its gotta be Mallett. You don't draft AJ Green at #4 to run a short-pass Dalton offense.

*Legion* wrote:

Heard on SIRIUS NFL Radio that the Bengals tried to trade up to #32 for purpose of selecting a QB, but Green Bay turned down the offer.

Cincy was trying to go from 35 to 32, which is 550 to 590 points. A 40 point throw-in for GB would have been a 5th round pick. Thompson must have decided a 5th wasn't worth risking losing Sherrod, and I agree with him. Smart move.

Question is, what QB does Cincy covet? I think its gotta be Mallett. You don't draft AJ Green at #4 to run a short-pass Dalton offense.

Colin Kaepernick, if he doesn't go first to whoever trades up or to the Bills ... ?

*Legion* wrote:

Heard on SIRIUS NFL Radio that the Bengals tried to trade up to #32 for purpose of selecting a QB, but Green Bay turned down the offer.

Cincy was trying to go from 35 to 32, which is 550 to 590 points. A 40 point throw-in for GB would have been a 5th round pick. Thompson must have decided a 5th wasn't worth risking losing Sherrod, and I agree with him. Smart move.

Question is, what QB does Cincy covet? I think its gotta be Mallett. You don't draft AJ Green at #4 to run a short-pass Dalton offense.

Just realized one fun thing of spreading the draft out like this. More time for all these rumors to seep out and drive up the craziness. Anyone who wanted to get a QB early in the 2nd now has this to chew on.

*Legion* wrote:

1) Bobby Petrino has the Razorbacks running a very pro-style offense. Not just pro-style in terms of personnel groups and that the QB gets under center, but pro-style in the level of sophistication in how they react to the defense.
2) Mallett completely "got" Petrino's offense.

As much as I hate that disloyal asshole... yeah, he knows offensive football. His 2nd, 3rd, and 4th years at Louisville:
Year AvgRush AvgPass AvgPts
2004 . 250yds . 288yds . 49.8
2005 . 188yds . 293yds . 43.4
2006 . 185yds . 290yds . 37.8

It was also interesting the way he prepped for games. They had a scripted set of 10-15 plays that they were running for the first series or two of every game, designed to take advantage of the team we were playing. If I had to guess I'd say we probably scored on 70% of our first drives those seasons. It was ridiculously fun to watch. Playing with the lead also let the defense be very aggressive. We only gave up 19, 23, and 16 ppg those seasons, respectively. Yeah that's 30, 20, and 21 for average margin of win. Good times.

God I love Viking fans. I was at the Twins game last night and I heard at least four people say, "Who the f*ck is Christian Ponder?" (or, as one person said, Chris Pander)

Oh my.

PFT is reporting that the Falcons offered the "bet the farm" trade to Cincinnati for their #4 spot, and Cincinnati turned them down.

Only after Cincy held their spot and picked Green did Atlanta go through the finalizing motions with Cleveland.

Not only could Cincy have had that deal but their pick was 200 points better than Cleveland's (equal to a 3rd rounder) and might have been able to get a little extra that Cleveland didn't.

Thin J, I'm so sorry.

Minase wrote:
PFT is reporting that the Falcons offered the "bet the farm" trade to Cincinnati for their #4 spot, and Cincinnati turned them down.

Only after Cincy held their spot and picked Green did Atlanta go through the finalizing motions with Cleveland.

Not only could Cincy have had that deal but their pick was 200 points better than Cleveland's (equal to a 3rd rounder) and might have been able to get a little extra that Cleveland didn't.

Thin J, I'm so sorry.

Wow. Either Cincy really, really likes Green or their idiots.

Who am I kidding? They are idiots. Sorry to all Cincy fans out there, but that was a Raider-esqe decision.

Guess which I'm voting?

Since Arizona appears to have moved towards sanity in recent years as the Bidwell's have backed off, Mike Brown remains the longest running "OMG WTF" owner in football. Al Davis and Dan Snyder are making runs at it, though.

I'm not vaguely surprised Cincy turns it down, though, as they just don't trade. At all. Ever. For whatever reason.

I don't even have the words.

I saw the note about the trade, and then Cincy's refusal, and wanted to let go of a noise that doesn't even qualify as a scream. One of those primal shred your vocal-chord noises there's no word for.

That's about all I've got.

Still standing by avoiding Cincy games this year. Watching never manages to be anything other than completely frustrating.

PFT is reporting that the Falcons offered the "bet the farm" trade to Cincinnati for their #4 spot, and Cincinnati turned them down.

Only after Cincy held their spot and picked Green did Atlanta go through the finalizing motions with Cleveland.

Not only could Cincy have had that deal but their pick was 200 points better than Cleveland's (equal to a 3rd rounder) and might have been able to get a little extra that Cleveland didn't.

Thin J, I'm so sorry.

Wow. Either Cincy really, really likes Green or they're idiots.

Who am I kidding? They are idiots. Sorry to all Cincy fans out there, but that was a Raider-esqe decision.

DRAFT TIME AGAIN YAY!

I'm back in the #GWJ chatroom. Somebody better be joining me.

NFL.com is streaming the draft live too. Fun to listen to them predict QB every pick and miss.

Andy Dalton for the Bengals. Not exactly the kind of air-raid quarterback I would expect for the Bengals.

Dalton to the Bengals? Really? Have nothing against the guy but it does seem odd as mentioned upthread to get Green and then Dalton to throw short routes to him.

Wait isn't he the red head?

Niners take Kaepernick! YAY!

Grats to you Legion!

Minase wrote:
not only did NO get a stud at DE, they snuck up and nabbed Mark Ingram to make their offense as well rounded as it can get.

I actually disagree - running backs are fungible. I think they could find a back (or just keep using Pierre Thomas!) that will produce as well as Ingram in later rounds and even as UFAs. I think the Saints overreacted to their freak RB injuries last year, and as always the Patriots capitalized.

I'm actually not all that upset about the Ingram pick. Sure, there is some argument that RBs are fungible but they only gave up to late 2's (next year's 1 = this year's 2) to get a second late 1. Not like Atlanta...

Edit: Draft value chart says #28 is worth 660. #56 is worth 340 and optimistically assuming the Saints are drafting towards the bottom half next year as well, we'll just double that. So they gave up around 680 worth of value to get 660. Yeah, I'm not too upset about it. Of course, if you think Ingram's knee is a problem, you might say otherwise. As they say, YMMV.

Stay granted, lockout restored.

I hope Jacksonville Fedex overnighted Gabbert his playbook.

I made something for you, Thin J.

/sigh

Lions take a WR in the second round...booourns.

*Legion* wrote:

I made something for you, Thin J.

So very spot on.

Thin_J wrote:
*Legion* wrote:

I made something for you, Thin J.

So very spot on.

Very well done, best Bengals documentary I've ever seen.

I hate having to watch the draft ticker on ESPN.com. I can't get any other site to work with the crappy old version of IE we have at work but their ticker seems full of errors. For about an hour it was showing that the Texans had taken Bowers with teh 42nd pick.

*Legion* wrote:

Niners take Kaepernick! YAY!

Are you a Niners fan now?