iRacing catch-all

Re: session.
I can't justify $26 just to be able to run with you all. Maybe if i get my road license up a bit and can run some official races too. I'll see how it goes.

I'm very methodical in my approach to things like this Sim therefor I'm less likely to join in a "for fun" session on cars and tracks I haven't built my way up to yet. I would enjoy racing with everyone but if it doesn't translate and coincide with my iRacing pursuits I really don't see the attraction personally.

Right now I'm sticking to class R and class D cars, I might venture up to the trucks or Star Mazda since I don't feel that far removed from them but nothing else is compelling to me at the moment.

If you guys happen to run something I'm working on and I'm actually at home I'll be happy to join in but by no means do I want anyone to change what they want to do just so I can be included. On that note it could be helpful if we knew the availability and driving interests for each of us.

I'm pretty much on most week days right now from 9am to 1pm Central Time and off and on both Saturday and Sunday all day. I'm driving everything D and under but the Spec & Solstice right now and I'm taking a break from the Skip before I gleefully wander into oncoming traffic to end the frustration.

NauticaLNaughT wrote:

I'm very methodical in my approach to things like this Sim therefor I'm less likely to join in a "for fun" session on cars and tracks I haven't built my way up to yet. I would enjoy racing with everyone but if it doesn't translate and coincide with my iRacing pursuits I really don't see the attraction personally.

We are actually spending a lot of time just in practice. I think any time you are driving a sim, you are learning. It is just more fun to do with others with some common interest like GWJ.

I would like to hear everyone's interest in a car/track combo. I think the MX5 car on a short road track may be fun. I love driving the Vette, but that doesn't have to always be the car of course. I don't want anyone to have to shell out money for cars or tracks just to join in.

Tonight was good:

Practice Results:

Shane Johnson: 1:59.247
Michael Stinchfield 1:59.571
Mike Melelis 2:02.762
Jeffrey Jones2: 2:06.59

That looks like improvement across the board.

Qualifying Results:

Shane Johnson: 1:59.663
Michael Stinchfield 2:00.418
Mike Melelis 2:04.796

I don't know what happened to Jeff at this point. It is St. Patty's day...the Leprechauns got him?

Race Results:

I blew this with a bad mistake early in the race, so the race was bit anti-climactic. I had to sit there in the pits for 3:00 doing nothing:-( I will have to work on my consistency.

1st Shane Johnson
2nd Mike Melelis
3rd and Last Michael Stinchfield

Good job all.

I've only run the ovals, so the only road car i can drive is the Miata right now.

The first few laps from my car - just a down and dirty vid - it stops abruptly in mid-lap.

That was fun to watch. Having never been in the car, it was interesting to see what they look like and how they perform.

Does everyone here have access to the SCCA Spec Racer Ford? That car at Summit Point is pretty fun. I think those are included with the base package. If so, that might be a fun one to run Saturday. The SCCA's are like little go karts. Top speed of 130 I think. Not too fast and fun to sling around a track.

My apologies to Speeddokken for last night - I had my head up my ass at the green flag and wasn't even in gear, much less ready to launch. I saw you swerve into the wall at the start in my rear view.

I don't know what happened to Jeff at this point. It is St. Patty's day...the Leprechauns got him?

Sorry for the early bail. Something came up and I had to leave. When I exited, there was no one on the server, at least not that I could see on my F3 list.

Nyxs Optare wrote:

Does everyone here have access to the SCCA Spec Racer Ford? That car at Summit Point is pretty fun. I think those are included with the base package. If so, that might be a fun one to run Saturday. The SCCA's are like little go karts. Top speed of 130 I think. Not too fast and fun to sling around a track.

I agree, that would be a fun combo, and it's something everyone owns.

With the sale yesterday, I got the Star Mazda ... holy crap that car is fun to drive.

IMAGE(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/ziffel66/HowardCooperTireFord.jpg)

I love the Star Mazda. The FW31 is even more fun, so go drop some more money:-)

I suck driving the Spec, so a few sessions working that out at the short track at Summit would be cool.

Another great track everyone should check out is VIR. I think I will plan on hosting a session there soon, hint, hint...

For your viewing pleasure, the FW31. I don't think you get all that for $14.95 though:-)

MisterStatic wrote:

For your viewing pleasure, the FW31. I don't think you get all that for $14.95 though:-)

OMG. I WANT!

And btw, I just ran SPA last night for the first time. Freakin' awesome track. I can see some serious speed being attained there. We MUST run some Star Mazda at SPA soon!

That car, even with the bad ass physics in iRacing, feels like an arcade ride. It goes from 0 to a bagillion mph in like .5 seconds, and stops just as fast. It's really fun to drive, and definitely takes some getting used to. The full-motion cockpit however.... well... who wouldn't want that in their man cave?

I'd like to get some input as to what time to setup the server on Saturday. I think we've come to the conclusion that we'll be running the SCCA Fords at one of the Summit Point configurations. So tell me what time and I'll get us taken care of.

Nyxs Optare wrote:

My apologies to Speeddokken for last night - I had my head up my ass at the green flag and wasn't even in gear, much less ready to launch. I saw you swerve into the wall at the start in my rear view.

It's cool. I think I overreacted with that swerve. Thanks again for the car setup and thanks MisterStatic for the hosted sessions. That corvette is crazy loud, I actually had to turn down the engine audio to hear you guys talk.

Nyxs Optare wrote:

That car, even with the bad ass physics in iRacing, feels like an arcade ride.

I love it. I think I know what you are saying though. You know those vehicles are made to feel that way. Still, you can definitely feel it's boundaries beyond what an arcade model would provide. I'll let you know about Saturday, I still don't know.

Anytime after 10 am EDT Saturday is fine with me. I think the SRF & Summit combo is an excellent choice.

a) everyone has it
b) very fun car to drive
c) great track, esp for that car

In my very limited experience, the SRF is a good bit like the Skip Barber, and requires some simultaneous pedal work. For those unfamiliar, don't brake into corners! Well, unless you're applying some throttle too. The SRF is pretty easy to spin.

Also taking requests for Sunday, availability, and track/car choices.

This sim is based on the physics engine that was in Grand Prix Legends in 98, and Nascar 2003. It's been revised over the years, but it's still the same underneath. This engine rewards people that left-foot brake. Knowing how to use both pedals at the same time to turn your car in and slow down will net you great returns in lap time. If you download a setup from some of the fast guys like Team Orion (http://www.orionraceteam.com/setups/) you will find some that really want to spin out when you're breaking for a turn from high speed. What their setups require is for you to never fully take your foot off the gas. That keeps just enough weight transferred to the rear axle so that the rear tires don't lock up and attempt to pass the fronts.

I'll look at setting up a server Saturday about 10 AM Texas (central) time. 11 AM Eastern. There's a specific layout of Summit Point I'm wanting to race, but I don't know which one it is. Once I get home and can test a bit, I'll make the final arrangements / announcement.

I can't make it saturday (working), but could do something sunday. I think I just need to get my road SR to 3 to get access to the SRF. I can handle that.

Nyxs Optare wrote:

I'll look at setting up a server Saturday about 10 AM Texas (central) time. 11 AM Eastern. There's a specific layout of Summit Point I'm wanting to race, but I don't know which one it is. Once I get home and can test a bit, I'll make the final arrangements / announcement.

I think I can be there, I'll be watching the Sebring race on a side computer at the same time.

I'm down for anything. If we wanna do the SCCA stuff Sunday, that's cool. Let me know what track/config to setup for Saturday and we'll roll.

I wouldn't mind doing the Mazda's at Phillip, but VIR is just as cool.

Tell me whatcha want... I'm easy. My wife can attest.

Here's something for the guys trying to setup a car - I've been doing it in sims for over 10 years now, but all those settings can be daunting if you don't know where to begin. This is a very good forum comment I picked out from iRacing. Good tips here:

First, break it down into two classes: high speed corners and low speed corners. Then break each corner into three behavours - corner entry, mid corner and corner exit. Now, try and figure out what the car is doing in each of those segments.

Now, handling is all about weight transfer and using the aero, springs, shocks and ARBs to control it.

First, try and set the car up for the slower corners where aero has little or no effect. That gives you a baseline for a decent handling car and then you can evaluate aero performance and changes in the fast corners.

Now, what does what?
Springs set the overall stiffness of the suspension, soft for bumpy tracks, stiff for smooth. To a degree.
A spring on its own will bounce up and down uncontrollably, so shocks act to dampen the oscillation AND they help control the rate at which the spring compresses and rebounds.
ARBs control side to side weight transfer - basically tieing the wheels on one axel together so they move up and down together. As you roll into a corner, it lifts the inside wheel to try and keep the car level, hence the name anti roll bar (ARB).
The wings provide downforce, creating grip. But they only work at higher speeds, and the higher the speed, the more they work. Part of the compromise is that a car that works well in low speed corners may be too soft for the fast aero corners, but in general, get the car working in the low speed stuff first, then use the wings to tune it for the hight speed stuff. More wing = more grip but will slow you down on the straights from increased drag so you want to run the least wing that keeps you on the track. I'm a wuss, I run a lot of wing.

So what is the car doing at the three phases and what changes will help?
First things first, try and fix the end of the car that isn't working. For example, if you have understeer at corner entry, you probably want to fix the front. If you have understeer at corner exit you probably want to fix the back. Keep reading, I'll get there.

Corner entry:

Understeer
Low speed corner: soften the bump or compression setting on the shock -12 is full soft on the SM
soften the spring
soften the front ARB
soften the rear rebound setting (lets the rear come up faster to transfer weight forward)
add negative camber to the front tires - will be better in the corner, but worse under braking
remove toe in or even toe the front end out - will snap into the turn
0 toe or even toe out the rear end - car rotates like a dream. Often a 360 degree rotation though. But too much toe in and the car will understeer like a truck.

High speed corner: same as above but you can also add more front wing or remove some rear wing to push the nose down

Oversteer
Reverse of everything up above - oversteer on corner entry is too fast a weight transfer to the front, making the rear light and the front bite. Toe out in the rear will usually snap the rear end around too much.

Mid corner

Understeer
Low speed corner: likely the front is bouncing up or the rear is settiling down, so try stiffening the front rebound or stiffening the rear compression.

High speed corner: as above but could also be loss of aero at the apex speed, so try adding a little front wing or removing a little rear wing.

Oversteer
See the theme? The reverse of everything above.

Corner exit

Understeer
Low Speed corner: the rear is probably too soft so it's settling and the nose is lifting, inducing understeer.
stiffen rear springs and/or rear shock compression setting
stiffen rear ARB
stiffen front rebound setting so the shock doesn't release as quickly.

High speed corner: same idea but you can use aero to reduce load on the rear or increase load on the front.

I didn't touch on camber/caster very much, nor tire pressures. They do make changes, but more subtle in the SM. Camber is usually around -2.3/-1.3 front/rear, caster around 8.5-9, and cold tire pressures around 13.0. Once you get used to making and evaluating changes, then start playing with these. As -ve camber tilts the wheel, it means the outside wheel will be more square to the road surface during cornering, but it provides you with less contact patch in a straight line which means better straight line speed but reduced braking ability due to the loss of contact patch.

Nyxs Optare wrote:

setup hints

Excellent, thanks Shane, I needed a good starting point.

My vote for tomorrow is VIR South Course in the Star Mazda if we are doing the SRF on Sunday with Don.

I feel so catered to. What time are we thinking Sunday? I'm home alone until evening when my family will return from their day out.

DonD wrote:

I can't make it saturday (working), but could do something sunday. I think I just need to get my road SR to 3 to get access to the SRF. I can handle that.

Don, you can race any car you want in private hosted sessions, as long as you own it and the track involved. I certainly don't have a license to drive the Corvette

@Static, I had some credits left over, so I grabbed VIR. When I realized that this was the only road course I was missing, it was a no-brainer. I just tested it a bit with the Star Mazda, and I can see why you praised it. Very fun track, and that long swervy run is a hoot.

Idea, since Don can't race Saturday, why don't we do Summit Point and SRF's on Sunday, when he can join us, and tomorrow do something like Star Mazda's at VIR or Philip Island, since (I'm assuming) Don doesn't have those anyway.

Would like to hear from Speeddokken too. I think he has 'em all, but I'm not positive.

Thanks for the info, Nyxs, I'm trying to learn that stuff, so that's very helpful. I am going to print it out. Btw, I did order that book you recommended yesterday, so hopefully the ebay seller will be quick about getting it to me.

I have a question about the Star Mazda, speaking of setups. I'm hearing what I would call 'scrape bumping' occasionally, I assume the car is 'compressing' some when encountering certain bumps in the road. I know these cars sit very close to the ground, so what would I look at to reduce the scraping?

edit: e.g. I get the scraping pretty bad in the hill leading up to T6 at Zandvoort-GP. I did a 1:40.260 there just now, with the baseline setup and a good bit of that scraping. World best is 1:32.x so I'm guessing I could get even closer with a good setup.

If it's just an occasional scrape, it may not be anything to worry about. You should see the sparks fly from the bottom of the Indy cars at Talladega or Daytona running the big ovals in game. As long as you're not riding the car all the way down to the bump-stops (little pieces of rubber that keep the spring from fully compressing), you should be OK. If you are on the stops at full compression, then things get wacky. You spring-rate effectively jumps to infinity and you can lose control really quickly. There's a part at brands hatch where you go downhill and back up very quickly and at the very bottom I used to bottom out and hit those bump stops. I spun there quite often because of it

You could try making the springs stiffer, which may alter the handling more than you'd like (Springs are what I'd call "Big" adjustments to the car). You could also try raising the ride height a click or two. Raising the ride height will allow for more weight transfer during acceleration / deceleration. Again - this may or may not be beneficial. It will also allow more air to move underneath the car which I believe will slow it down on the straights just a bit.

I'm leaving work here shortly and will look for ya online when I get home. Maybe we can work on a setup. Also - check the Orion website I posted up above - I didn't see anything specific for VIR, but some of the other setups may work as a starting point.

Thanks for the info. I just started looking at the Orion setups, they have quite a few. Time to explore.

Jeff-66 wrote:

Would like to hear from Speeddokken too. I think he has 'em all, but I'm not positive.

Even if I don't have it yet I can just buy it. I've already spent like $400 what's another $15. If iracing goes under I'm screwed.

speeddokken wrote:
Jeff-66 wrote:

Would like to hear from Speeddokken too. I think he has 'em all, but I'm not positive.

Even if I don't have it yet I can just buy it. I've already spent like $400 what's another $15. If iracing goes under I'm screwed.

Ok. Well I'm perfectly happy with either Philip Island or VIR, so since Nyxs is hosting, I'll leave it to him to decide.

Nyxs Optare wrote:

I'm leaving work here shortly and will look for ya online when I get home. Maybe we can work on a setup. Also - check the Orion website I posted up above - I didn't see anything specific for VIR, but some of the other setups may work as a starting point.

I tried a TeamOrion Zandvoort setup (at Zandvoort), and didn't do so well with it. Their setup still had the scraping, so I guess that's just normal with that car.

Note to all gwj - speeddokken = easily enabled

What do y'all think about doing some of the R class - Nvidia cup racing tonight - we could drop into practice sessions and everyone has that. Do a little momentum racing. Good for working on your racing line, and Limerock is a fun track.

Nyxs Optare wrote:

Note to all gwj - speeddokken = easily enabled

What do y'all think about doing some of the R class - Nvidia cup racing tonight - we could drop into practice sessions and everyone has that. Do a little momentum racing. Good for working on your racing line, and Limerock is a fun track.

Sorry, watching my kids + reading 300+ pages of scholarly work. At least it is all about spatial knowledge acquisition in virtual environments. I guess that is somewhat related to iRacing:-)

Have fun guys, see you in the a.m.