The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Catch-All

Dysplastic wrote:

While I do understand people's skepticism given issues that people had with Fallout 3 and Oblivion, it does make me sad that this thread is full of Negative Nancies and the Mass Effect 3 thread is all "SQUEE!!"

That's only because I'm not over there. ME2 was a good game, not the end-all. Mass Effect 3 will be another good game.

Gravey wrote:

But I share Grubber's FO3 optimism. Oblivion's criticisms were loudly voiced and began to be addressed in FO3. Skyrim should only be better still. Right?

I will admit that I am cautiously optimistic because of that. FO3 had some serious issues, but nowhere near as many as Oblivion. The thing that worries me is that many of the things that persist should be relatively easy to fix, so it leads me to believe that Bethesda doesn't think they are a problem.

Dysplastic wrote:

While I do understand people's skepticism given issues that people had with Fallout 3 and Oblivion, it does make me sad that this thread is full of Negative Nancies and the Mass Effect 3 thread is all "SQUEE!!" It's not like the Mass Effect games were perfect either...they just didn't have a Morrowind preceeding them to turn them all into curmudgeons.

Plus, mods are there to ultimately fix at least 50% of what you personally don't like about Bethesda games. They might not be as polished at launch, but they ultimately turn into deep, satisfying experiences.

Yeah, i got out of the ME3 thread once the "I can post any spoilers i want cause the game has been out more than 3 months" troupe came along and said they were going to start discussing spoilers without warnings.... because they hate warnings.

Or maybe that was the Uncharted 3 game thread

Duoae wrote:
Dysplastic wrote:

While I do understand people's skepticism given issues that people had with Fallout 3 and Oblivion, it does make me sad that this thread is full of Negative Nancies and the Mass Effect 3 thread is all "SQUEE!!" It's not like the Mass Effect games were perfect either...they just didn't have a Morrowind preceeding them to turn them all into curmudgeons.

Plus, mods are there to ultimately fix at least 50% of what you personally don't like about Bethesda games. They might not be as polished at launch, but they ultimately turn into deep, satisfying experiences.

Yeah, i got out of the ME3 thread once the "I can post any spoilers i want cause the game has been out more than 3 months" troupe came along and said they were going to start discussing spoilers without warnings.... because they hate warnings.

Or maybe that was the Uncharted 3 game thread :)

I take it you don't read GWJ from a mobile device? :/

Grubber788 wrote:

I take it you don't read GWJ from a mobile device? :/

My phone doesn't do internet..... It's a phone!

I had planned to stay out of this thread, but I'll jump in here to say that disliking Oblivion isn't solely a matter of having loved Morrowind so much. I haven't played any of the Elder Scrolls games, and I didn't enjoy Oblivion for a lot of the reasons Minarchist mentioned. It felt unfocused, as open world games tend to do, but it failed to provide any sort of compelling over-arching quest line to draw users through the game. What was there was nonsensical or painfully generic.

I can recognize the appeal of Oblivion, but it's not correct to assume that people have negative impressions of the game because of its predecessors. There were some deep, deep flaws in the game that can't be ignored. (I can't speak to Fallout 3. I have some specific, idiosyncratic issues with it that keep me from playing it.)

Duoae wrote:

Yeah, i got out of the ME3 thread once the "I can post any spoilers i want cause the game has been out more than 3 months" troupe came along and said they were going to start discussing spoilers without warnings.... because they hate warnings.

Or maybe that was the Uncharted 3 game thread :)

It's a sequel. You should expect spoilers for the games before it, regardless of when they were released.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
Duoae wrote:

Yeah, i got out of the ME3 thread once the "I can post any spoilers i want cause the game has been out more than 3 months" troupe came along and said they were going to start discussing spoilers without warnings.... because they hate warnings.

Or maybe that was the Uncharted 3 game thread :)

It's a sequel. You should expect spoilers for the games before it, regardless of when they were released.

Having respect for other people is something that everyone should have. It takes zero effort to post a spoiler warning at the beginning of a post - to do otherwise is just a callous disregard for other people and their experiences going forward. If everyone here did that i wouldn't be able to read many posts on these boards because, quite frankly i can't play (or afford to play) every game that comes out when it comes out or near when it comes out.

I guess your argument to me and other people like me is "p*ss off"....

Duoae wrote:

I guess your argument to me and other people like me is "p*ss off"....

My argument is that you shouldn't be reading a thread about the third part of a trilogy if you're concerned about spoilers for the first two parts.

Duoae wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:
Duoae wrote:

Yeah, i got out of the ME3 thread once the "I can post any spoilers i want cause the game has been out more than 3 months" troupe came along and said they were going to start discussing spoilers without warnings.... because they hate warnings.

Or maybe that was the Uncharted 3 game thread :)

It's a sequel. You should expect spoilers for the games before it, regardless of when they were released.

Having respect for other people is something that everyone should have. It takes zero effort to post a spoiler warning at the beginning of a post - to do otherwise is just a callous disregard for other people and their experiences going forward. If everyone here did that i wouldn't be able to read many posts on these boards because, quite frankly i can't play (or afford to play) every game that comes out when it comes out or near when it comes out.

I guess your argument to me and other people like me is "p*ss off"....

Not to be combative, but what would you hope to gain from reading a thread about a sequel to a game you have never played, particularly if you are hoping to avoid plot details?

I don't read the desire to keep a free-flowing discussion of previous games in a series as "p*ss off." Talking openly about the plot from a previous game and spoiler tagging things related to the current or next game seems like a reasonable concession. As I alluded to earlier, reading these forums from a mobile device, like my iPod, is maddening when there are tons of spoiler tags (you can't highlight things to read them). That's a minor issue, but it does prove there are reasons to avoid spoiler tags in some instances; there's a threshold where spoiler tags become a nuisance.

Re-reading your post, I have a question: do you want everyone to spoiler tag, or just for the OP to make it clear what acceptable levels of spoilerage are within the thread (i.e. "ME1 and 2 plot details are fair game in ME3 thread; ME3 details need spoiler tags")?

Grubber788 wrote:

(i.e. "ME1 and 2 plot details are fair game in ME3 thread; ME3 details need spoiler tags")

This is going down the rabbit hole (apologies to rabbit) but this is just getting too fine grained if you're going to that level of rules. Do we need two ME3 anticipation threads before it's been released, one where we discuss the often deceptive marketing they drip feed gamers, and another where we just figuratively sit around grinning at each other and posting "it's going to be good... isn't it?", and reply "I don't know, I'm on media blackout". Not to take your example at literal face value, but to show at that point it's just absurd.

I've seen it said somewhere else, gaming is the only hobby where people get so pissy about spoilers, and to be honest the stories for games on the whole aren't that good, even in Bioware games. Take some responsibility for your browsing.

Scratched wrote:

I've seen it said somewhere else, gaming is the only hobby where people get so pissy about spoilers, and to be honest the stories for games on the whole aren't that good, even in Bioware games.

Oh snap! [size=6]I agree.[/size]

Can we get back to talking about how awesome/disappointing Skyrim will be?

ClockworkHouse wrote:

Disliking Oblivion isn't solely a matter of having loved Morrowind so much. I haven't played any of the Elder Scrolls games, and I didn't enjoy Oblivion for a lot of the reasons Minarchist mentioned. It felt unfocused, as open world games tend to do, but it failed to provide any sort of compelling over-arching quest line to draw users through the game. What was there was nonsensical or painfully generic.

You know, that's a fair point. I guess I'm just bummed out because I would use many of the same terms to describe Mass Effect 2, but no one is over there raining on their parade, so why are people here raining on mine!!!

ClockworkHouse wrote:
Duoae wrote:

I guess your argument to me and other people like me is "p*ss off"....

My argument is that you shouldn't be reading a thread about the third part of a trilogy if you're concerned about spoilers for the first two parts.

I guess i have no legitimate reason for being excited about a further sequel to a game i played (but haven't played part deux) and want to discuss the trailer... who's voicing it.... see people dissect the hidden meanings and imagery and stuff.

Maybe you could post a nice thorough list of what i should and shouldn't do.

Scratched wrote:

I've seen it said somewhere else, gaming is the only hobby where people get so pissy about spoilers, and to be honest the stories for games on the whole aren't that good, even in Bioware games. Take some responsibility for your browsing.

I don't know... i don't like people spoiling my books or films either.... I guess labelling a link as NSFW is fine but being able to write two words in a spoilery post isn't?

You know, that's a fair point. I guess I'm just bummed out because I would use many of the same terms to describe Mass Effect 2, but no one is over there raining on their parade, so why are people here raining on mine!!!

Mass Effect people are naturally sunny. Well-rendered character faces will do that for you. It's digital exfoliant with video vitamins.

Doug wrote:
You know, that's a fair point. I guess I'm just bummed out because I would use many of the same terms to describe Mass Effect 2, but no one is over there raining on their parade, so why are people here raining on mine!!!

Mass Effect people are naturally sunny. Well-rendered character buttocks will do that for you. It's digital exfoliant with video vitamins.

FTFY

Wait, what? I thought I was reading the Mass Effect 3 thread with all the discussion about spoilers in it... how did this happen!? Back to the love/hate relationship of Oblivion!

Duoae wrote:

I guess i have no legitimate reason for being excited about a further sequel to a game i played (but haven't played part deux) and want to discuss the trailer... who's voicing it.... see people dissect the hidden meanings and imagery and stuff.

Maybe you could post a nice thorough list of what i should and shouldn't do.

In all honesty, I think you have a fundamentally different take on this situation than most of the people on the site. It's unfortunate, and you might think we're being inconsiderate, but it's something you should keep in mind while browsing the site. That's the nature of communities: they'll establish norms that work for the majority but that don't always line up with the views of each individual.

In this particular instance, you might be happier starting a thread for discussion of the trailer that's specifically spoiler-free.

Gravey wrote:

Can we get back to talking about how awesome/disappointing Skyrim will be?

I'm curious to see if Skyrim will have a more unique setting than Oblivion and if it will have a stronger primary quest line.

I'm still impressed by the main quest in Fallout (1) and the way that it lead you through enough places that you could see the world and discover on your own ways to deviate from it. Specifically, I'm impressed by the placement of Shady Sands directly between Vault 13 and Vault 15. It's impossible to not discover it, and it's a good launch pad for other areas like Junktown that lead in turn to the Hub and the Necropolis. I didn't feel like Oblivion had that sort of elegantly chained set of locations.

ClockworkHouse - you've polled the GWJ userbase as to their spoiler preferences? There is no way you can say that spoiler aversion is outside of the GWJ norm. What is outside the GWJ norm is a lack of courtesy towards fellow posters.

It's reasonable to say that ME2 spoilers are appropriate to an ME3 thread, but imho people generally avoid them or hide them (my research on this subject being no more scientific than yours).

The definitive GWJ stance on spoilers would come from Certis and Elysium. It seems to be a subject of discussion lately, so perhaps it will be addressed (or perhaps it was, and I didn't see it). This place is the great and friendly place that it is because they have made it so, and thereby attracted like-minded users.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

ClockworkHouse - you've polled the GWJ userbase as to their spoiler preferences? There is no way you can say that spoiler aversion is outside of the GWJ norm. What is outside the GWJ norm is a lack of courtesy towards fellow posters.

I'm basing this on the trend of including unmarked spoilers for previous games in threads for their sequels. The threads for Dead Space 2, Bioshock 2, Fable III, and even Mass Effect 2 have plain spoilers for their predecessors.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
Fedaykin98 wrote:

ClockworkHouse - you've polled the GWJ userbase as to their spoiler preferences? There is no way you can say that spoiler aversion is outside of the GWJ norm. What is outside the GWJ norm is a lack of courtesy towards fellow posters.

I'm basing this on the trend of including unmarked spoilers for previous games in threads for their sequels. The threads for Dead Space 2, Bioshock 2, Fable III, and even Mass Effect 2 have plain spoilers for their predecessors.

I'm definitely of the opinion that open spoilers in sequel threads are fair game, and it seems to be common. When spoilers popped up in the Dead Space 2 thread I checked out, without getting huffy, because I figured it was silly of me to be checking the thread out while I still intend to finish the original.

When I eventually do finish Dead Space, or let it defeat me and come to terms with the fact I won't ever finish it, I'm gonna read the sh*t out of the Dead Space 2 thread.

I'm firmly in the camp of liking both Morrowind and Oblivion. I definitely didn't like how unstable Oblivion was, but I thought the world was much better. I never really liked the drab brown colors of Morrowind, but this is just an aesthetic preference. At first I really missed levitation, and the wide enchanting options, but I got used to it. I saw what enchanting and alchemy allowed you to do in Morrowind, and while I'm a fan of player choice, I'm also a fan of not being able to too easily break the challenge of the game. If you haven't seen the video of someone beating Morrowind in 10 minutes, you should watch it, and then you'll have a good understanding of why enchanting and alchemy got hit with the nerf bat.

I sincerely hope that along with the brand new engine we also get brand new face technology. It's been mentioned a million times before and I completely agree that the faces in Oblivion are terribad. Even installing one of the many face texture packs doesn't help much if at all.

Getting back on topic.

Some article[/url]]Nick Breckon tweeted that the game engine for the next adventure in Tamriel will be brand-spanking new. Jim Rossingol of Rock, Paper, Shotgun asked Breckon to clarify the term “all-new,” whether Bethesda is using an updated version of Gamebryo (used by Bethesda previously for Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout 3) or something completely new. Breckon replied, saying, “It’s a new graphics/gameplay engine built internally. We’ll have more details down the road.”

Follow the link for links to the actual tweets.

ahrezmendi wrote:

I'm firmly in the camp of liking both Morrowind and Oblivion. I definitely didn't like how unstable Oblivion was, but I thought the world was much better. I never really liked the drab brown colors of Morrowind, but this is just an aesthetic preference. At first I really missed levitation, and the wide enchanting options, but I got used to it. I saw what enchanting and alchemy allowed you to do in Morrowind, and while I'm a fan of player choice, I'm also a fan of not being able to too easily break the challenge of the game. If you haven't seen the video of someone beating Morrowind in 10 minutes, you should watch it, and then you'll have a good understanding of why enchanting and alchemy got hit with the nerf bat.

It's a single player game. Who cares if the game is breakable? Nobody is forcing the player to break it.

Am I the only person that immediately cringes when I hear the term "graphics engine built internally" these days. It seems like there are already a lot of actual stable, powerful graphics engines you can license. The idea that some game studio can whip one up while making their game just seems incredibly conceited on their part. Then the engine comes out and it turns out that, no, they weren't able to stress test the engine on most of the computer configurations out there and the whole thing just turns into an enormous headache.

General Crespin wrote:
ahrezmendi wrote:

I'm firmly in the camp of liking both Morrowind and Oblivion. I definitely didn't like how unstable Oblivion was, but I thought the world was much better. I never really liked the drab brown colors of Morrowind, but this is just an aesthetic preference. At first I really missed levitation, and the wide enchanting options, but I got used to it. I saw what enchanting and alchemy allowed you to do in Morrowind, and while I'm a fan of player choice, I'm also a fan of not being able to too easily break the challenge of the game. If you haven't seen the video of someone beating Morrowind in 10 minutes, you should watch it, and then you'll have a good understanding of why enchanting and alchemy got hit with the nerf bat.

It's a single player game. Who cares if the game is breakable? Nobody is forcing the player to break it.

The thing with Morrowind was that it wasn't easily broken, you (as in, the person playing it, rather than the character you play) had to go out and learn the knowledge of how the game systems worked and the recipes. It's like saying the lottery is broken if you know the numbers beforehand. Even if they wanted to disallow the 5 minute speed run, they could have capped things rather than resorting to amputation and restricting what a player can do. It's kind of weird to me as the world of Oblivion is already ideally suitable to such things as the player moving anywhere, and there are (invisible) walls around the outside of the play area, it's not like say Nehrim where there are areas you are meant to go and not meant to go and are constrained by steep walls.

Spoiler:

Remember when Sean Bean died at the end of Oblivion? Meh.

Actually, that reminds me: I left Bruma the other day, and passed the big Oblivion siege engine from the battle there, weeks (in-game and IRL) ago. And there were Jauffre and Baurus' corpses, still lying in the dirt. If that story event had any gravitas (and an "army" of a dozen dudes pretty much doesn't), that sucked it right out.

Still super excited for Skyrim despite those Bethesda idiosyncrasies.

Population is a weird phenomenon in Oblivion. There are probably less than a 1000 people in that so-called "kingdom," and your character can potentially kill over half of them. I'd be willing to bet the number of skulls you see in the game is probably over 2000. How many terrible things have happened to that place?! I would have no faith in the government to provide protection

Gravey wrote:
Spoiler:

Prequel stuff in the sequel thread

Gravey! You'll throw the thread's karmic balance off again.

Ah yes, the first time I ran into invisible walls was a pretty big "WTF!?" moment to me.

The only time I'm ok with invisible walls is in Oceans. I can forgive a developer for not wanting me to cast levitate/water walk and then running endless miles into the ocean.

[size=8]I guess not everyone can be as cool as Notch[/size]

Scratched wrote:

The thing with Morrowind was that it wasn't easily broken, you (as in, the person playing it, rather than the character you play) had to go out and learn the knowledge of how the game systems worked and the recipes.

One of the bugs with the enchantment system was that if you entered a wrong value in the enchantment interface, the game got confused and removed the limits on the strength of the enchantment. On my third attempt at enchanting in Morrowind I accidentally made a sword with a drain spell so powerful I was essentially an invincible god whenever I wielded it. I love Morrowind and still play it occasionally, but so many aspects of that game are horribly, horribly broken that I love it despite itself. Much like Oblivion, or most of Bethsoft's other games, for that matter.