This is Not the Boogle Memorial Dating Advice/Tips Thread, No

ccesarano wrote:
CheezePavilion wrote:

The trouble is people almost never kick slim-but-unhealthy people out of bed for eating crackers, no matter how many crackers they eat or how much plaque they have in their arteries. So it's not really about being with someone who cares about their health, my guess is it's about how a fat person being concerned about their health cancels out the negative of them being fat. In the end, it might not have anything to do with being fat, it might have to do with the stereotypes that go along with fat people, like being lazy.

Actually, that sort of stuff DOES happen to cross my mind when I'm meeting girls and hanging out with them a bit. If they mention going to the gym regularly that's a plus for me, and if they don't seem to exercise regularly and joke about how they can eat whatever they want without getting fat, I just sigh and think "wait until you get pregnant and your body chemistry is totally screwed up". Or even as peacensunshine said, wait until you get older.

...

So you're right, I think with a lot of people, no one would care about lazy traits or over-eating if the person isn't overweight. But as soon as you are, all of a sudden all you can see is the fact that they're fat.

It sounds more like who you are attracted to is influenced highly by what you want in a future relationship. I know the *last* thing I'm thinking about is getting a girl pregnant when figuring out if I'm attracted to her. Also, let's remember the flipside of this then: according to what you say, you should not be attracted to women with diseases they contracted through no fault of their own who will die early.

However, doesn't mean it is a deal-breaker, just as someone who is overweight (like my ex) won't be a deal breaker. The girl at my Bible Study who I'm going to try and talk with more tonight is like a stick, and thus typically a lot thinner than I prefer. However, her personality is cool enough that I'll shrug it off. If I can date someone overweight I can certainly try and date someone that is underweight.

I think a lot comes down to how much attractiveness needs to play in a relationship for someone. For some people, having a physical desire for the other person is important; for others, it's not so important. So whether anyone should shrug anything off in a potential partner depends on a lot of factors, but it's important to keep in mind that maybe someone doesn't *want* their physical looks shrugged off for the sake of their cool personality. Some people want to be physically desired by their partner even if that partner knew nothing about them. She may want someone to find her thin figure to be something that makes her irresistible, not something that is shrugged off. All depends on what you and the other person are looking for.

However, to actually speak on the topic rather than spilling out my own perspective, I have noticed that a lot of people seem to just have no care for someone as long as they aren't fat. I've seen guys make a big deal out of a girl in a thong, and when I've looked I've winced and said "Dude, that is one flabby ass". At which point people ask me what the Hell I'm talking about, etc. etc. But it's clear from the picture that the girl doesn't work out, and thus she really isn't all that attractive. Yet I guess because she isn't fat and she happens to wear a thong she's still hot?

Yup. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that.

Maybe things would be better if most fat people weren't so defensive about it, though. I've gotten into arguments with other fat people because I can't stand their attitude, which is basically to avoid the subject at all costs. My friends and I joke about my weight, but it's in the same vein that we joke about all of our traits. Unfortunately, instead of my being fat meaning I have license to chew someone else out on it, I'm only made to look like a hypocrite.

Well, you can't really blame fat people for being so defensive about it considering the way our culture is--heck, who knows how many of the health issues we associated with being fat aren't a result of being fat but of the stress that comes from having to live in a culture that is bigoted towards fat people: stress kills! I would say I don't think anything ever gives us a license to chew someone else out about anything other than their consent. If someone wants to avoid the subject at all costs, that is their right.

On the topic of age, well, I've given my own thoughts on that already I guess. Whenever I see a woman nearing her 30's I think "Hm, she might be a better fit for my brother". When I see women bordering 20's, I wonder if they are too young. But considering this thread's general reaction, I'm crazy for thinking that way at all.

I think something else I've left unsaid is: what would her parents think knowing their 18 or 19 year old daughter is dating a guy that's 25? I may not live in Pennsylvania or the deep south, but there are enough people in South Jersey that keep hunting rifles around that I'm afraid of looking down a barrel one day hearing "You treat her like a lady, y'hear?" It's like, no matter what, because of that age gap I've already made a bad first impression.

I think at this point we're moving away from discussing physical attractiveness and into decision making. Which I think is something worth untangling: what do we mean when we say we are 'attracted' to someone? How much of it is physical reaction and how much of it is mental decision making?

Last night, I was out with a group of people, most of whom I'd never met before. I got sat next to a fairly attractive girl. We struck up a really good, surprisingly deep conversation (crazy stuff about gender roles, politics, religion, etc). For me, this is a huge turn on.

sidenote:
I'm generally looking for something more serious. That doesn't mean that every relationship I enter into will become serious, but it means the potential must be there, which means that I have certain criteria that I'm looking for, because otherwise I know there's no potential. My general criteria are:
- Intelligence. If she's not smart, I'm going to get bored.
- Desire to have kids someday. I want to have kids, start a family, etc. If she's not interested in that, things can only go so far.
- Irreligious. I refuse to get married in a church or indoctrinate my children into a certain set of beliefs. If doing those things are important to her, we don't have a future.
These are some of the things I'm looking for once I've determined a base level of attraction/interest.

back on track:
Through our conversation, each of my "criteria" comes up naturally (I'm not forcing the issue, it's just where the conversation leads), and she passes them each with flying colors. The only issue for me is that she passes the middle one (Desire to have kids someday) a little too well by already having a 3 1/2 year old daughter.

Here's where my dilemma comes in. I have reservations about dating someone who has a child. By dating someone with a child, you're effectively dating 2 people (the child and the mother). My concern is that I know I'm going to love the kid, and if things do evolve into something serious, I'm going to have a hard time separating the love for the child from the love for the mother. And if things aren't going well, I'm going to have a harder time recognizing it and a harder time making the decision to end it (it's hard enough to break one person's heart, let alone 2 people's).

Anyway, I anticipate the advice I'm going to receive here will largely be to ignore it, and to not worry about something so far ahead. Do what feels right and let whatever happens happen. And you're probably all right, but I'll be damned if I can get my thoughts to listen to me.

I know at least AnimeJ has some experience with this issue, but I'd greatly appreciate any advice/knowledge from those of you with personal experience in this area.

kaostheory wrote:

Last night, I was out with a group of people, most of whom I'd never met before. I got sat next to a fairly attractive girl. We struck up a really good, surprisingly deep conversation (crazy stuff about gender roles, politics, religion, etc). For me, this is a huge turn on.

sidenote:
I'm generally looking for something more serious. That doesn't mean that every relationship I enter into will become serious, but it means the potential must be there, which means that I have certain criteria that I'm looking for, because otherwise I know there's no potential. My general criteria are:
- Intelligence. If she's not smart, I'm going to get bored.
- Desire to have kids someday. I want to have kids, start a family, etc. If she's not interested in that, things can only go so far.
- Irreligious. I refuse to get married in a church or indoctrinate my children into a certain set of beliefs. If doing those things are important to her, we don't have a future.
These are some of the things I'm looking for once I've determined a base level of attraction/interest.

back on track:
Through our conversation, each of my "criteria" comes up naturally (I'm not forcing the issue, it's just where the conversation leads), and she passes them each with flying colors. The only issue for me is that she passes the middle one (Desire to have kids someday) a little too well by already having a 3 1/2 year old daughter.

Here's where my dilemma comes in. I have reservations about dating someone who has a child. By dating someone with a child, you're effectively dating 2 people (the child and the mother). My concern is that I know I'm going to love the kid, and if things do evolve into something serious, I'm going to have a hard time separating the love for the child from the love for the mother. And if things aren't going well, I'm going to have a harder time recognizing it and a harder time making the decision to end it (it's hard enough to break one person's heart, let alone 2 people's).

Anyway, I anticipate the advice I'm going to receive here will largely be to ignore it, and to not worry about something so far ahead. Do what feels right and let whatever happens happen. And you're probably all right, but I'll be damned if I can get my thoughts to listen to me.

I know at least AnimeJ has some experience with this issue, but I'd greatly appreciate any advice/knowledge from those of you with personal experience in this area.

The older we get this is going to become more and more of an issue. I am actually surprised I haven't dated some one with a kid already. I wouldn't stay out of something because I thought I might fall in love with someone though.

Even if its a bad idea, I think you have to do it Kaos.

NathanialG wrote:

The older we get this is going to become more and more of an issue. I am actually surprised I haven't dated some one with a kid already. I wouldn't stay out of something because I thought I might fall in love with someone though.

This is true, as you get through your 20s and into your 30s this is definitely going to be an issue.

Thing is Kaos, the only thing you can do is not sweat it. You need to bear in mind that you are dating the mother, not the little one. You will get attached to the little one, but that's a result of your relationship with the mother.

The other thing is, it's out of your hands. Unless the woman is desperate for a daddy for her little one she will be pretty circumspect about the child getting too attached to you, unless she's very certain in the relationship. If she's cautious it's important to respect that.

MrDeVil909 wrote:

The other thing is, it's out of your hands. Unless the woman is desperate for a daddy for her little one she will be pretty circumspect about the child getting too attached to you, unless she's very certain in the relationship. If she's cautious it's important to respect that.

That's probably a good point. And if I got the vibe that she was desperate for a daddy for the little one, I'd be sprinting in the other direction.

I'm really hoping the little girl plays a series of increasingly hilarious pranks on you Kaos!

Maybe afterwards, we'll all learn a little something about ourselves.

I don't see the problem with viewing it the way you are, in that the child is a factor as well as the mother. And it's a risk, and if you get attached, that could be painful for both of you.

But what's the alternative? Should the mother just remain alone for the rest of her life, and the kid never get to have any sort of potential relationship with anyone her mother dates? Should you pass up on a relationship with someone you may genuinely click with because you're already pondering how hard it will be to end it?

Here's the thing, as a child whose parents divorced when I was very young (three years old, right around the same age as this one), kids can handle a lot more than folks give them credit for. Sometimes you become jaded young, and you realize that your parent's "friends" come and go. Or if it's more serious, you're hurt but since you've already experienced whatever circumstances divided your parents in the first place (if they even ever got together), you have a model for putting that disappointment into context. But either way, you're a tough little bastard. Literally.

So I'd say don't ignore it, but try and keep it in perspective. And, on a more humbling note: don't give yourself too much credit.

unntrlaffinity wrote:

So I'd say don't ignore it, but try and keep it in perspective. And, on a more humbling note: don't give yourself too much credit.

Ouch. Also, touche.

CheezePavilion wrote:

I think at this point we're moving away from discussing physical attractiveness and into decision making. Which I think is something worth untangling: what do we mean when we say we are 'attracted' to someone? How much of it is physical reaction and how much of it is mental decision making?

I think I might fuse the two together. I mean, while I mentioned I would "shrug off" a preference, I still find the girl attractive, and I'm sure any "problems" I have now would go away if I develop real feelings for her other than shallow attraction. Love is super awesome and powerful like that.

However, I'm the sort of person that wants to be in a relationship if it's going to be serious, so I have a mental checklist. This list has decreased and broadened over the years, thankfully (I no longer require the girl be a gamer, or geek of any kind, to be interested. Ahh, youth).

kaostheory wrote:

Here's where my dilemma comes in. I have reservations about dating someone who has a child. By dating someone with a child, you're effectively dating 2 people (the child and the mother). My concern is that I know I'm going to love the kid, and if things do evolve into something serious, I'm going to have a hard time separating the love for the child from the love for the mother. And if things aren't going well, I'm going to have a harder time recognizing it and a harder time making the decision to end it (it's hard enough to break one person's heart, let alone 2 people's).

Anyway, I anticipate the advice I'm going to receive here will largely be to ignore it, and to not worry about something so far ahead. Do what feels right and let whatever happens happen. And you're probably all right, but I'll be damned if I can get my thoughts to listen to me.

I think the best way to handle it, and she will probably want to do this first, is to be out of the kid's life until she decides she doesn't mind it. My sister dated a guy for over a month before deciding my niece could know he even exists. This means he never stepped into our house and never went out with the two of them. He and my sister basically arranged dates to meet at so my niece wasn't at all involved, and she felt that this guy wouldn't just be in and out of her life and could be trusted as a positive male role model.

I would personally do the same thing, honestly.

The WORST way to go about it is how my friend's mom did in like, fourth or fifth grade. We came home from school one day and his mom said "Guess what? We're married!". Thus this man he never met before was his new father.

Yeah, that was a disaster.

ccesarano wrote:
CheezePavilion wrote:

I think at this point we're moving away from discussing physical attractiveness and into decision making. Which I think is something worth untangling: what do we mean when we say we are 'attracted' to someone? How much of it is physical reaction and how much of it is mental decision making?

I think I might fuse the two together. I mean, while I mentioned I would "shrug off" a preference, I still find the girl attractive, and I'm sure any "problems" I have now would go away if I develop real feelings for her other than shallow attraction. Love is super awesome and powerful like that.

It is super awesome and powerful, but this is not about problems going away, it's about a necessary component being there in the first place. You use the phrase "shallow attraction" in contrast to "real feelings" and while that might be true for you, that's not true for everyone. No matter how super awesome and powerful love may be, it can never substitute for that raw--not shallow, raw--attraction. Not everyone needs to be wanted by their partner in that way, but some people do. It's important to figure out if the person you're with is one of those people.

And I guess it's not so binary as that--it would be better I think to say we all want to be wanted on a purely physical level to some degree, just that some need a higher degree than others. Heck, that degree varies in a person over their lifetime let alone between different people.

kaostheory - The key is to teach the child her place in the relationship right away, ideally by impregnating her mother. This sends a clear message that the child is now redundant and can be replaced if she steps out of line. You should have few problems with her after that.

No, in all seriousness, it sounds like you're approaching this the right way. Certainly you shouldn't be ignoring this complicating factor, but you should try not to obsess over it either. If the relationship doesn't go anywhere, then it's not an issue, and if it does start to get serious, take your cues from your new lady friend as to when you should meet her daughter / how involved you should be. If she's pushing you to get involved more quickly than you're comfortable with, then discuss it with her honestly. She sounds like the sort of person you should be able to do that with, and if it turns out she's not, then it would be time to bail even if the daughter weren't an issue.

No callback on the concert ticket! Ah, well. Tonight I will console myself with several applications of beer-adryl, my anesthetic of choice. And, you know, the music.

Edit: Callback on the field overturned. Defending player feeling under the weather. 15 yard penalty. 1st down.

unntrlaffinity wrote:

No callback on the concert ticket! Ah, well. Tonight I will console myself with several applications of beer-adryl, my anesthetic of choice.

AKA Bonus Eruptus' Sleepytime Tea. The secret ingredients are Guinness and Benadryl.

This is a dating/tips thread, don't get too bogged down in broad, philosophical discussions please. You can start a new on for that.

Yeah. Ruin my thread again and there's gonna be blood.

*Legion* wrote:

Yeah. Ruin my thread again and there's gonna be blood.

I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE!

boogle wrote:
*Legion* wrote:

Yeah. Ruin my thread again and there's gonna be blood.

I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE!

Now that's how to ask *Legion* out on a date.

Well, Bible Study was half a bust tonight. The guy I was supposed to lend my Scott Pilgrim comics to didn't show, and neither did the cute gamer chick. However, I still managed to socialize, and one of the girls there was a valuable information source as well as a cool person to speak with, so I managed to make more friends.

Things learned: she is friends with two other girls that all went to the same school, and one of those friends brought the gamer chick. From the sounds of it, though, they're all gamers of some sort. They are all also around 19 years old. Gamer chick does not have a car, so she has to rely on her friend she was there with for a ride, and that friend works often.

So after finding out about the girl and her friends and talking video games for a while, I decided to give her my old and crappy card so that she could use it later to do some Facebook stalking. I recalled that last week gamer chick went to my high school, meaning she lives near me, and thus said to get a message moving along that if she needs I can give her a ride to Bible Study.

We'll see how that works out.

*Legion* wrote:

Yeah. Ruin my thread again and there's gonna be blood.

Well we wouldn't want that because:

IMAGE(http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a447/cheezepavilion/GWJ%20iCandi/True_Blood__Eric_Northman.png)

So direct all traffic you feel is bogging down your thread this a-way: HERE BE DRAGONS

Truism of the week: there is no graceful way to eat a burrito. Take her out for Thai food.

unntrlaffinity wrote:

Truism of the week: there is no graceful way to eat a burrito. Take her out for Thai food.

Ironically, my favorite burrito place serves a Thai burrito.

unntrlaffinity wrote:

Truism of the week: there is no graceful way to eat a burrito. Take her out for Thai food.

Take her out for hotdogs. Footlongs. [size=6]Who am I kidding? Vienna sausages.[/size]

unntrlaffinity wrote:

Truism of the week: there is no graceful way to eat a burrito. Take her out for Thai food.

I would recommend a place that uses chopsticks. My roommate and I used to do Korean or Sushi for first dates so we could either use our date's inability to use chopsticks as filler, or find out they're broader minded than expected.

Being able to use chopsticks = broad minded? Maybe it's just because I'm in California, but I don't think I've met anyone under the age of 45 who couldn't use chopsticks.

Broads are automatically broad minded. Chopstick skills or not.

SuperDave wrote:
unntrlaffinity wrote:

Truism of the week: there is no graceful way to eat a burrito. Take her out for Thai food.

I would recommend a place that uses chopsticks. My roommate and I used to do Korean or Sushi for first dates so we could either use our date's inability to use chopsticks as filler, or find out they're broader minded than expected.

bnpederson wrote:

Being able to use chopsticks = broad minded? Maybe it's just because I'm in California, but I don't think I've met anyone under the age of 45 who couldn't use chopsticks.

I think he meant: either a) they can use chopsticks, and you can talk about your relative abilities, b) they can't use chopsticks but are open to trying the cuisine, c) they can't use chopsticks and aren't willing to try.

It's acceptable to eat nigri with you fingers so she could side step that whole issue.

bnpederson wrote:

Being able to use chopsticks = broad minded? Maybe it's just because I'm in California, but I don't think I've met anyone under the age of 45 who couldn't use chopsticks.

I've tried and half-succeeded eight thousand times, but I've reached that "f*ck it" point and just use a fork.

Sonicator wrote:

I think he meant: either a) they can use chopsticks, and you can talk about your relative abilities, b) they can't use chopsticks but are open to trying the cuisine, c) they can't use chopsticks and aren't willing to try.

It's more "playful banter" when they can't use them. That inability however opens up the opportunity to help them. The chances that someone is really bad with chopsticks varies with region however, which is why you're also taking them to a cuisine they are likely unfamiliar with (Korean).

My old roommate and I try to order something different off the menu at this one place, because well, everything is amazing. That way, we can always suggest something fitting depending on a person's taste. It also has the benefit of being in a non-obvious location, so the chances our date has eaten there is unlikely.

It's comparable to this actually:
http://questionablecontent.net/view....

but we we've been doing this for a while.