It's All About the Loot... No, It's Not

Here is the message where I said why I don't like DKP.

EvilMonkeyFG wrote:
I particularly dislike attendance metrics. The game is supposed to be about having fun, not punching a time clock.

It's not about punching a clock. It's about Player X signs up for multiple days, comes prepared, and does the job to the best of their ability. Player Y signs up once in a while, has no shows, and basically treats the 9 other raiders like a back up plan. It's happened before. Is it fair for slacker Player Y to get a piece that Player X has waited to drop? Or will Player Y be okay if we say "Sorry you decided to show up for once, but Player X deserves it more? These are the questions that we need to discuss and put down on paper so everyone knows what's expected. IMO you need to reward people who are consistent and reliable over the very casual person. But that's what this thread is here to discuss.

The problem here is you are conflating low attendance with being a douche. If someone is late all the time and is unprepared, you tell them sorry, but we prefer they wait until raid dungeons are on farm status so that everyone benefits. Someone who shows up twice a week doesn't have a right to twice as much loot--or *any* more loot if you ask me--as someone who shows up once a week. Loot distribution should be random and need-based, and everyone has to agree on the definition of "need."

EvilMonkeyFG wrote:
To me, any value-based system of loot distribution is exactly the same as kicking people from pugs because their gear score is below some arbitrary value.

You've never experienced the way we handled loot via EPGP, and in that regard, it's best not to make judgment calls that might scare people off before you know the ins and outs of how we handle it. You can ask anyone who went through it and most of them would tell you it was a fair system top to bottom.

So here's a new topic to discuss it. Tell me about EPGP.

I still stand by my assertion that metrics-based loot distribution is a recipe for trouble. In every case I am familiar with (and I've played WoW as long as anyone), it leads to hard feelings. Need-based random distribution is completely egalitarian. If the content was hard enough that there was no way to get through it without having a dedicated team that always got the best loot, then I'd agree; reward the best contributors. But it's just not that hard. Beyond some basic level of damage mitigation, healing power and DPS, success is more about working as a team than it is about having the shiniest armor and weapons. Anything that creates a notion of "first string" and "second string" raid members is not conducive to building a better team.

As a casual player who wont be involved as much as I would like to because of real world commitments I think that not getting a piece of loot i could use because I am not around often enough is a steaming pile of garbage and makes me not want to bother.

Just one mans perspective.

Well, do keep in mind that the more casual casual players can always wait until the guild has some of the dungeons on farm status. At that point, people who are on the edge of raid progression won't be needing loot from the raids that are on farm, so they'll be more available for anyone.

Was there really a need to start a whole other thread on the topic? The guild leader put a post together to get everyone to summarize there thoughts. Everyone from all levels of the guild throughout all levels of involvement. I don't understand the need to generate another thread to just speak further on one of the discussion points.

Let everyone speak there mind in the other thread as intended and let the guild leader make an informed decision based on the opinions of the guild as a whole.

Bean is right, I totally should not have started this thread. I misread this message:

EvilMonkeyFG wrote:

But that's what this thread is here to discuss.

I read that as "that's not what this thread is here to discuss."

So this thread doesn't need to exist, my bad, mea culpa; please don't bother replying here.

DKP is a tool, there's another factor in the equation which is the people running the raid, who can either fairly overrule the points scheme, or screw over people and give loot to their friends.

Edit: Moved my post back to the other thread.