Castle Ravenloft/Wrath of Ashardalon Catch All

My daughter will be 13 in December. She's never played anything similar to this, so she's really digging it. I've threatened D&D for years, but my wife...had reservations.

So perhaps I'm misinterpreting "adjacent". I took it to mean one of the eight squares immediately surrounding a hero. Does it simply mean on the same tile as the hero? Or is my original assumption correct and it's completely player's choice.

That being said, I would always move the spider adjacent as the prospect of a bite is better than that of the web.

D-Man777 wrote:

So perhaps I'm misinterpreting "adjacent". I took it to mean one of the eight squares immediately surrounding a hero. Does it simply mean on the same tile as the hero? Or is my original assumption correct and it's completely player's choice.

Adjacent is on one of the eight, but not just one at random. As a D&D player, my interpretation is the monster closes with a direct path, moving it to the closest square that places it adjacent to the nearest hero. Basically a D&D "charge" which has to be a straight line. In D&D the act of closing and circling around a hero is more movement distance "speed" than the monster likely has and would grant opportunity attacks. Those are D&D rules and not CR's lite set but I think the logic stands.

I think the simplicity of the rules is a real strength. Adjacent means just that: in a square adjacent to your hero. It's up to you if it's more advantageous to be in front of you, behind you, etc. A monster can be both adjacent and one or two tiles away so you can put it in the best position for the situation. Generally we play it like Mantis described but sometimes it's better to bring the monster behind you, maybe so someone else will start adjacent to it, etc.

It's a cooperative game so take whatever interpretation you want. There's no wrong way to play

Well, a monster can't be both adjacent and 2 tiles away.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

Well, a monster can't be both adjacent and 2 tiles away.

Hax! Diagonals are a "forward and left" sort of affair for tile path considerations so now that I think about it there are cases where it's "two tiles away" for range calculations even though it's touching.

LiquidMantis wrote:
Quintin_Stone wrote:

Well, a monster can't be both adjacent and 2 tiles away.

Hax! Diagonals are a "forward and left" sort of affair for tile path considerations so now that I think about it there are cases where it's "two tiles away" for range calculations even though it's touching.

ARGH! Curse your logic and rightness.

LiquidMantis wrote:
Quintin_Stone wrote:

Well, a monster can't be both adjacent and 2 tiles away.

Hax! Diagonals are a "forward and left" sort of affair for tile path considerations so now that I think about it there are cases where it's "two tiles away" for range calculations even though it's touching.

Yeah, it's not going to happen often but the situation could come up and it's perfectly legal. I know some people have problems with that kind of logic but I don't mind at all, it gives the players more flexibility.

LiquidMantis wrote:
Quintin_Stone wrote:

Well, a monster can't be both adjacent and 2 tiles away.

Hax! Diagonals are a "forward and left" sort of affair for tile path considerations so now that I think about it there are cases where it's "two tiles away" for range calculations even though it's touching.

In those cases, it's two tiles away. Not adjacent. A tile has only four adjacent tiles. A space has 8 adjacent spaces.

BadMojo wrote:

In those cases, it's two tiles away. Not adjacent. A tile has only four adjacent tiles. A space has 8 adjacent spaces.

Right, the idea is that a monster two tiles away can be adjacent to a hero.

LiquidMantis wrote:
BadMojo wrote:

In those cases, it's two tiles away. Not adjacent. A tile has only four adjacent tiles. A space has 8 adjacent spaces.

Right, the idea is that a monster two tiles away can be adjacent to a hero.

Totally.

Dreaded Gazebo wrote:

Yeah, it's not going to happen often but the situation could come up and it's perfectly legal. I know some people have problems with that kind of logic but I don't mind at all, it gives the players more flexibility.

Actually, I'd argue that the tank isn't doing his job if it doesn't happen at least a few times per game.

Sorry if this has been mentioned, I only skimmed.

How does this play solo? And how does it scale for younger players, notably my 9 and 11 year old daughters?

My wife will run away when I throw this down, her geek tolerance is nil.

There's some solo scenarios (2, I think) included in the adventure manual. They gave me a nice intro to the mechanics and rules, so I could better explain them when it came time to play with a group.

As for younger players, I'm not sure. This game will knock you down and make you cry uncle, so the frustration factor can be high. The manual suggests giving more healing surges (i.e. more health) to reduce the difficulty, but really that just give you more time until you lose. It doesn't make the objectives any easier.

I've only played with my 5 and 9 year-old sons and they've loved it. I coach the 5 year-old but he has a blast just being a part of it.

I think it is more designed towards small groups. Someone else (in this thread? I don't remember) wrote that the best # of players seems to be 3-4.

Anyway - at its core, it is a cooperative board game. You can only coop so much with yourself.... BUT, just an idea - since there are no "hidden" or secret elements in play concerning each character, you could probably also play this solo and just control more than one character.

Oh, and about the wife vs. geekness: This game is not very much a role playing game. It is more a board game with some limited RPG elements. So it still might work out for her as well - at least if she is somewhat into board games at all.

I'm surprised at how much Castle Ravenloft plays like D&D4e from a mechanics perspective, while still feeling like a board game. They did a great job of paring the system down to its essentials while retaining the basic feel of 4e. My wife isn't much of a D&D person but has played CR with me, and while we were watching the Penny Arcade D&D video series the other day she asked about the power cards. After a second I said "it's just like Castle Ravenloft" and that was all she needed. But yeah, there really isn't much inherent RP to the game. You could apply as much as you wanted I suppose though. Oh, just like D&D the game really is cooperative. Breaking up the party will lead to a slow death.

I got this for Xmas and i'm really enjoying it.

A couple of thoughts from my initial game with my sister and dad (who have never played D&D before).

The Rule book is horrifyingly ambiguous on a number of issues. It took me ages to work out how things worked exactly. The biggest one is what happens when a heroes (during the hero phase) moves to the edge of a tile, but still has movement to go. Does the movement phase stop and then the tile exploration phases starts? or do you just grab a tile and keep moving?

Some mechanics aren't clearly described, things like the HP tokens... how are you meant to use them?

Anyway, having fun working it out.

AP Erebus wrote:

Some mechanics aren't clearly described, things like the HP tokens... how are you meant to use them?

Anyway, having fun working it out.

We use the shield-shaped tokens to track our HP. We take a number equal to our total HP, then turn them over as we take damage. The markers with the concave edge on them are used for monsters with only partial HP remaining. Just butt the marker up to the edge of their figure's base to track remaining HP.

I picked this up with Christmas money yesterday. My wife and I played the Icon of Ravenloft adventure three times and won the third. The first game we didn't get all the rules right and almost won. The second game was a brutal defeat. Our third game we had the exact opposite experience and won without using a healing surge.

After a couple attempts with the first adventure Escape the Tomb I managed to complete it.

Here's me at the 7th tile uncovered:

(click for full)
IMAGE(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5242/5297897438_2d151c92ec_b.jpg)

With only four tiles to the stairway I still had 4HP, two healing surges, a large XP pile and two spaces left for the sun.

Here's how it looked completed:
IMAGE(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5084/5297898028_1cd1f639b8_b.jpg)

I made it to the stairway but was struck down by the gargoyle. I used a healing surge and a couple misses from the three enemies later I won. I had to use all but two XP to prevent the encounters the last few turns.

I'm really happy with my purchase with this. The rules are not too deep to slow it down and that's what I'm looking for.

IMAGE(http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/4913/healingsurge.jpg)

(I think this thread can probably serve as the catch-all for all of the D&D Cooperative board games, not only Castle Ravenloft...)

I just bought Wrath of Ashardalon and played my first game with my two older daughters (ages 11 and 8). None of us had never played Ravenloft before, nor any of the other similar style of games (Descent, etc), so it was a bit of an adventure, so to speak, for all of us. I think I spent at least half of the entire time doing quick rule checks in the book as we played, in addition to simply reading the rulebook cover-to-cover before we even separated the cardboard cutouts.

I know the game is supposed to be difficult... but the three of us got totally demolished on Adventure 2 (the first non-solo adventure). I'm not sure if we simply didn't know how to play properly, or if we had a colossal run of bad luck. Or, if that's just the way the game goes.

By the end of the first round (all three of us taking our turn), we had the 1 double-wide start tile and 2 new tiles added. The 2 new tiles had a Fiendish Snake and a trio of Legion Devils, along with a Whirling Blades trap. By the end of the second round, we had an Encounter card-mandated 3rd new tile added, which came with a Kobold Dragonshield -- which, since there were of course no Heroes on his tile, immediately generated a 4th new tile to be added, coming with an Orc Mauler. Oh, and a Rolling Boulder trap.

I'm pretty sure we were playing properly, but it would be nice if someone could confirm: When a new tile is added to the dungeon, it of course comes with a monster. That monster will be activated during the current player's Villain phase (i.e., pretty much immediately). If the monster's first tactic says something like "if the monster is within 1 tile of a Hero, then move adjacent to the Hero and attack"; in this case, the monster is alone on its own brand-new tile, and the active Hero is standing 1 space away from that tile -- so the monster moves to any of the 8 surrounding spaces from the Hero and attacks. Right? Brand-new spawned monsters always get a "free" attack?

Also, in regards to traps: The cards state that a trap can't be spawned onto a tile that already has a trap on it, but we couldn't find any rules about traps MOVING to a tile that already has a trap on it, so we allowed it. It's not sitting right with me though.

Other than getting demolished (I think we killed only 6 or 7 of the requisite 12 monsters to win the scenario), my kids and I had fun playing, and we're all looking forward to giving it another shot soon. We might give start off with an extra Healing Surge or 2 though... just until we all get the hang of it.

merphle wrote:

I'm pretty sure we were playing properly, but it would be nice if someone could confirm: When a new tile is added to the dungeon, it of course comes with a monster. That monster will be activated during the current player's Villain phase (i.e., pretty much immediately). If the monster's first tactic says something like "if the monster is within 1 tile of a Hero, then move adjacent to the Hero and attack"; in this case, the monster is alone on its own brand-new tile, and the active Hero is standing 1 space away from that tile -- so the monster moves to any of the 8 surrounding spaces from the Hero and attacks. Right? Brand-new spawned monsters always get a "free" attack?

Yep, that sounds right! As the rules are written that new monster will always get a jump on the heroes.

merphle wrote:

Also, in regards to traps: The cards state that a trap can't be spawned onto a tile that already has a trap on it, but we couldn't find any rules about traps MOVING to a tile that already has a trap on it, so we allowed it. It's not sitting right with me though.

There aren't any moving traps in Ravenloft so I'm not sure, and I haven't played Ashardalon yet. My guess is that it's probably valid though.

merphle wrote:

Other than getting demolished (I think we killed only 6 or 7 of the requisite 12 monsters to win the scenario), my kids and I had fun playing, and we're all looking forward to giving it another shot soon. We might give start off with an extra Healing Surge or 2 though... just until we all get the hang of it.

That's the beauty of the system, it's very easy to modify the difficulty!

Even though I've cooled on Ravenloft quite a bit, I may pick up Ashardalon. I like that the treasures actually look to be real treasures you use and not mostly the insta-use blessings and such found in Ravenloft. Some of the new room types look interesting, too.

Looking at the event and monster decks in Ashardalon, are there lots of things that do guaranteed damage? That was the most frustrating thing in Ravenloft; I really disliked the constant events that would do some amount of guaranteed damage. While they help keep the game balanced by slowly whittling away your health, I just didn't like the feel it gave the game. For a D&D game I'd rather roll more dice, fight more monsters and have a more swingy, luck-dependent game than something that's too carefully balanced.

Thanks for the feedback!

Dreaded Gazebo wrote:

Looking at the event and monster decks in Ashardalon, are there lots of things that do guaranteed damage? That was the most frustrating thing in Ravenloft; I really disliked the constant events that would do some amount of guaranteed damage. While they help keep the game balanced by slowly whittling away your health, I just didn't like the feel it gave the game. For a D&D game I'd rather roll more dice, fight more monsters and have a more swingy, luck-dependent game than something that's too carefully balanced.

In my admittedly extremely brief time with the game (and no knowledge of Ravenloft), it looks like most (75%?) of the "attacks" (player and monster skills) do no damage if you miss your to-hit roll. But that seems to be a bit balanced by the Encounters, which seem to have a lot of guaranteed-damage cards (i.e. roll to reduce damage). The Rolling Boulder trap I mentioned above is seriously annoying in this regard: each round, it moves 1 tile closer to the nearest Hero, and after moving, all Heroes in the trap's new tile receive 2 damage outright. No roll of the die.

And as for some of the questions I had earlier about a tile hosting 2 traps, it seems that a quick Google would've answered them to my satisfaction. (a new trap can't be created on a tile that already has a trap, but an old trap can move onto a tile that already has a trap).

I think I can confirm what Dreaded Gazebo told you. That is also my understanding - at least when it comes to the CR.

I did not pick up WoA, yet. We are still strong on playing CR every now and then.

Is anybody with a more funded CR experience reading here, who has played WoA, yet? I would like to know how they compare. Is WoA simply another CR with a different look? Or did they also change some game mechanics? The moving traps for example are definitely new.

Maybe there's also a review somewhere available?

P.S. @DG: Like your blog. Always nice to read your board game reviews. Keep it up!

The differences between CR and WoA are mostly subtle, and almost all what I would consider to be improvements. I can't speak to everything yet, since I've only played two games of WoA so far, but here's what I've seen:

-New tiles that give more interesting dungeons. For one, there are chamber tiles, that when you draw them, you add the surrounding tiles at the same time (Complete with monsters). Often these will be set up with a special chamber card, which will tell you to add something to the room. These make for very dramatic set pieces. There are also tiles with doors on them, that can be locked and have to be picked, or trapped. Adds a bit of paranoia and tension.

-Monsters have a few new mechanics. For instance the Legion Devils show up in a pack of 3 every time, or the Kobold Dragonshield will go find reinforcements if you leave him alone.

-Some traps are more interesting, and there's the addition of hazards, which work similarly to traps, but don't activate like a monster or normal trap would. Rather, they put an effect on a room, like the cave-in, which does damage on arrival, but afterwards only slows down anyone who passes by it.

-Real treasure. Almost all the treasure is now items you equip or consume, and almost all of it feels useful. A very noticeable improvement from the fortunes and blessings from CR, which seemed to give no benefit far too often.

-Gold and shopping mechanics. Granted, I haven't had a chance to play with this much, but all items in the game now have a monetary value associated with them. This allows you to buy equipment before going into a scenario instead of relying on the normal random draw, or sell items and buy new ones if you're doing a multi-scenario mini-campaign.

Do you steel have the pressure to keep moving ahead from event cards versus slowing down to make sure monsters are under control?

BadMojo wrote:

Do you steel have the pressure to keep moving ahead from event cards versus slowing down to make sure monsters are under control?

Assuming it's the same in CR as it is in WoA: Yes. Every time a player takes a turn and does NOT put a tile down, an Encounter card must be drawn.

merphle wrote:
BadMojo wrote:

Do you steel have the pressure to keep moving ahead from event cards versus slowing down to make sure monsters are under control?

Assuming it's the same in CR as it is in WoA: Yes. Every time a player takes a turn and does NOT put a tile down, an Encounter card must be drawn.

That's where I'm wondering what the encounters are like. I understand the purpose of encounters forcing you to move on and essentially putting a time limit on the game, but I really dislike that towards the end of the scenario you generally aren't exploring and just get whittled away by encounters. It just didn't feel right to me in Ravenloft; we're exploring a dungeon, we shouldn't get chipped away by things we have zero control over. If the encounter deck is more interesting, though, that would really help a lot.

I know community members on BGG have put together alternate rule sets for Ravenloft that take out the annoying encounters and give you more monsters to fight, but I haven't had a chance to try them out yet.

Monsters are zero threat. As a matter of fact, monsters give you rewards in every way for killing them. With no events, it's a slow, boring, monster killing frenzy since you only draw up as many monsters are you can handle.

merphle wrote:
BadMojo wrote:

Do you steel have the pressure to keep moving ahead from event cards versus slowing down to make sure monsters are under control?

Assuming it's the same in CR as it is in WoA: Yes. Every time a player takes a turn and does NOT put a tile down, an Encounter card must be drawn.

In CR, you have a 50/50 shot on a tile if you do explore versus a 100% shot if you don't.

BadMojo wrote:

In CR, you have a 50/50 shot on a tile if you do explore versus a 100% shot if you don't.

The white/black triangle deal? Yeah, that's the same in WoA.

With the renewed interest, I thought the thread might be due for a name change.

D-