I need some advice

Pages

First off, my Brother is a douche bag. He is the real-life equivalent of someone who this forum looks down on. He thought Samus's characterization in Other M, Bayonnetta, and countless other Anime are mature and not-sexist. He thinks I am high-art/hippie minded, pompous asshole when I take positions on storytelling similar to Elysiums, and the rest of the conference call. This entry was written after an argument we had about that weird game Vanquish, which I think just looks kinda dumb and not fun, and he thinks it looks really fun and innovative. My plead for advice is, what can I do to counter these arguments. I have tried debating these, but he keeps just saying I am wrong and so on and so forth. Could you guys maybe help me out a little, give me some pointers on debating with douche bags, or maybe some good "zingers" to use to get him to shut his mouth.

I say go have a beer and talk about something else. You might not like to hear this, but even opinions you might find justifiably immature as just as valid as anyone else's.

Live and live.

If can't, then leave and let live.

The wife and I have similar discussions every once in a while; I admit that her argument --most games have a very childish approach and story development-- and only a few gems that are few and far between would help me mount an argument to debate. Instead we talk about everything but.

Also wet-willies.

He's your brother, you're never gonna change him. Get use to that, it'll prepare you for marriage.

I'm a huge proponent of the "Just because a person's related to you doesn't mean you have to consider them family or even associate with them at all" theory.

Unless you enjoy arguing as a contest of minds (I happen to), don't bother. He sounds entrenched in his position and you in yours, so unless you happen to both find debating to be fun all you are going to do is end up making each other mad.

What is it with the recent spate of I need advice treads?

As for advice; debating with a douche bag is like wrestling with a pig, you both get muddy but the pig enjoys it.

If you punch him in the kidneys when he's not looking it may help.

Whenever I'm stretching for a nice zinger, I usually tell them I banged their mom. You might try that. Douche's hate it.

Staats wrote:

Whenever I'm stretching for a nice zinger, I usually tell them I banged their mom. You might try that. Douche's hate it.

Although it is his brother. Could get real weird, real quick.

KrazyTacoFO wrote:
Staats wrote:

Whenever I'm stretching for a nice zinger, I usually tell them I banged their mom. You might try that. Douche's hate it.

Although it is his brother. Could get real weird, real quick.

Or really interesting

It worked well for Lazarus Long!

I find most often that the people whose opinions I agree with the least are the most willing to share them.

I keep politics, morals, and taste in literature/music/entertainment out of my general discourse after I get a reading on someone if I find I disagree with them. Unfortunately, most of the time, I find they don't reciprocate. There are more worthy uses of your time than arguing with your brother, unless you really enjoy it.

Literature, music, and entertainment are more harmless subjects than most, but can lead to political or moral discussions.

There's a non-insignificant number of people here who enjoyed Bayonetta immensely.

Does it really matter at all that your brother thinks Vanquish looks like fun? I mean, he's not going to force you to play it, is he?
I personally don't like sports games, but I'm not going to try to convince someone else that there's no possible way they can be fun. No offense, but I'm kind of ready to take your brother's side based simply on how you seem to be so mad he could like such a game.

My problem was that he wouldn't listen to reason, and would just resort to name calling and deprecating me, and to

Hobbes2099 wrote:

I say go have a beer and talk about something else. You might not like to hear this, but even opinions you might find justifiably immature as just as valid as anyone else's.

Live and live.

If can't, then leave and let live.

The wife and I have similar discussions every once in a while; I admit that her argument --most games have a very childish approach and story development-- and only a few gems that are few and far between would help me mount an argument to debate. Instead we talk about everything but.

Also wet-willies.

I'm 17

Skip the beer then, but heed the rest of the advice, it's good stuff.

MyNameIsHunter wrote:

My problem was that he wouldn't listen to reason, and would just resort to name calling and deprecating me

Honestly, in those cases it's not worth bothering to argue. The moment name-calling and so on is involved, neither party is going to be able change the other person's mind. Even if you "win" the argument, it's just because the other person got fed up rather than because you've convinced them.

MyNameIsHunter wrote:

My problem was that he wouldn't listen to reason, and would just resort to name calling and deprecating me, and to

Hobbes2099 wrote:

I say go have a beer and talk about something else. You might not like to hear this, but even opinions you might find justifiably immature as just as valid as anyone else's.

Live and live.

If can't, then leave and let live.

The wife and I have similar discussions every once in a while; I admit that her argument --most games have a very childish approach and story development-- and only a few gems that are few and far between would help me mount an argument to debate. Instead we talk about everything but.

Also wet-willies.

I'm 17

I hope he's 10.

Did GWJ suddenly start coming back as a search result for "good advice"?

MyNameIsHunter wrote:

He is the real-life equivalent of someone who this forum looks down on. He thought Samus's characterization in Other M, Bayonnetta, and countless other Anime are mature and not-sexist. He thinks I am high-art/hippie minded, pompous asshole...give me some pointers on debating with douche bags, or maybe some good "zingers" to use to get him to shut his mouth.

Permit me to be blunt. One of the reasons that I'm proud to be a member of this online gathering is that we generally don't look down on people. If you want judgmental nose-peering, there's plenty of that to be found throughout the net. Further, one of the guiding principles of our association here is that disagreement on a point doesn't make someone a "douche bag" or any other sort of epithet. If you'd prefer to not be thought of as a high-art/hippie-minded pompous asshole, you might give some consideration to the idea that someone might disagree with your own point of view and that not only does it not impinge upon your own valid ideas, but also doesn't make them a terrible person.

Some of the finest people I've ever met are those who can argue vehemently about a subject, and then part company with their opponent with a smile and handshake. I respectfully suggest that you model yourself on such folks. Good luck.

I would say you need to find some common ground and agree to disagree, but if he's response is to trash talk then he's probably not the type to compare game play mechanics or artwork. So I say just let the kid go and maybe he'll calm down after he's though puberty or when he has kids. As for comebacks I highly recommend not matching him trash talk for trash talk. Not because it's the mature thing to do but because there's no greater insult then not acknowledging an insult. Just give me a "meh", shrug your shoulders and walk away so that he knows he has to try a lot harder then that to impress you.....but he never will. But if you really want to have a zinger battle please do not say "noob", that's the last act of a desperate man/woman.

What Coldstream said. Wise words.

BlackSabre wrote:

What Coldstream said. Wise words, for a pompous douchebag.

FTFY

Yeah, nothing to add to the wise advice.

If things get personal, disengage. Allow him to have his opinion. Make sure you're not accidentaly being an elitist douche bag. vanquish looks awesome.

If you're both teenagers, then there's no problem. 10 years from now, you guys will have a laugh at these arguments over a beer. If you want to ease the frustration a little for the time being, just let your brother be. I say this because I've been there. My brother and I are one year apart, and we used to fight over the stupidest things.

My brother and I used fight all the time; the by product of two people whose personalities formed in close proximity into complimenting (read: opposite) base structures. For awhile, since he was the younger brother, he'd basically disagree with what ever I said or dislike whatever I liked out of a desire to make himself distinct to me with out considering rationality.
It's years later, and once we were given space, my brother started to come around. Having had more life experiences without me, made him less defined in my shadow. Not to say he's all the way around -- we're still pretty polar opposite personality wise. But now that we can talk in a civilized manner and appreciate our differences, those differences have become a strength. And considering we both work in the same field that consists of high stress, long hours and tons of logistics, have both points of view AND somebody I can trust is, well, fantastic.

So give your brother space, and let him figure things out on his own. Don't aggressively lead him, but make sure he knows you can trust him. So when the time comes that he might need help or guidance (not leadership), he can turn to you. And always keep the calmer head.

I hope that's helpful.

Just act as if you're clearly right and he's clearly crazy, then any time he opens his mouth about it just interrupt him with a "Go play Halo" or something. Eventually the arguments will break down into nonsensical bickering detached entirely from the actual topic, and at that point you can find equilibrium between nonsense and nonsense.

Life lesson:

You will never change a person and you will never convince a person.
_______________________________________________________

People will only change when they want to change and you will only ever change someones opinion when that person is willing to let that happen.

Just leave it, it's only games.

There are more important things to fight about happening in this world right now.

Chairman_Mao wrote:
MyNameIsHunter wrote:

My problem was that he wouldn't listen to reason, and would just resort to name calling and deprecating me, and to

Hobbes2099 wrote:

I say go have a beer and talk about something else. You might not like to hear this, but even opinions you might find justifiably immature as just as valid as anyone else's.

Live and live.

If can't, then leave and let live.

The wife and I have similar discussions every once in a while; I admit that her argument --most games have a very childish approach and story development-- and only a few gems that are few and far between would help me mount an argument to debate. Instead we talk about everything but.

Also wet-willies.

I'm 17

I hope he's 10.

He's 19

MyNameIsHunter wrote:

First off, my Brother is a douche bag. He is the real-life equivalent of someone who this forum looks down on. He thought Samus's characterization in Other M, Bayonnetta, and countless other Anime are mature and not-sexist. He thinks I am high-art/hippie minded, pompous asshole when I take positions on storytelling similar to Elysiums, and the rest of the conference call. This entry was written after an argument we had about that weird game Vanquish, which I think just looks kinda dumb and not fun, and he thinks it looks really fun and innovative. My plead for advice is, what can I do to counter these arguments. I have tried debating these, but he keeps just saying I am wrong and so on and so forth. Could you guys maybe help me out a little, give me some pointers on debating with douche bags, or maybe some good "zingers" to use to get him to shut his mouth.

Liking games that you don't like doesn't automatically make him a douchebag. I like Other M and Bayonetta (and the Vanquish demo!) and I'm not a douchebag.

Okay, maybe I am a douchebag. But almost everyone in the Vanquish thread was positive on the game, and they can't all be douchebags, right?

My roommate and I have frequent disagreements on games (he gets super pissed when I tell him Bioshock and the sequel were "solid 8s"), as we value things very differently. I'd suggest you just walk away from the argument and play what games you like. At the end of the day everyone is going to like what they like, and if you attack him for it you're likely to just make him more ardent in his defense of the game in question.

I'd like to debate you on the merits of two of those three games, but this isn't the games forum.

You're young. The main problem you have here is that you care about what your brother thinks. You care when his opinion differs from yours, and you care when he calls you names. I don't know why you care, but you do, and that is why you need zingers and retorts and other such things. Perhaps you secretly think that his opinion matters or that it's authoritative in some way.

If he doesn't care for your opinion, then don't let him have it. What right does he have to elicit your thoughts, if he clearly shows that he doesn't value them anyway? Discuss your opinions with people who will respect them, even when they may not always agree. Don't keep them secret or anything, but make it clear that you won't tolerate childishness from him.

At the same time, you have to practice the same thing. He likes what he likes. He's not wrong for liking them, and he's entitled to his opinion. If you don't like Vanquish and wish to tell him, then just tell him so and point out the specifics when asked.

Meaningful debate stands on mutual respect and an exchange of ideas. If neither of you are willing to consider that the other might have something useful to say, shut your mouths about it and talk about something better.

Simply put, you're both right... and you're both wrong. It's all opinion. You aren't going to change his and he isn't going to change yours. He has no obligation to "listen to reason" when no amount of reasoning is going to change his taste in videogames.

Coldstream and others covered the rest of it.

4xis.black wrote:

Just act as if you're clearly right and he's clearly crazy, then any time he opens his mouth about it just interrupt him with a "Go play Halo" or something.

Exactly. Also, the key is to make your arguments at a higher volume than he can manage. The general rule to arguing is that he who shouts the loudest wins the argument. It has always been thus.

Pages