Big 12 may be raided by Big 10 and Pac 10 expansion plans

Yeah, Texas and the 9 dwarves really kills the other competitive programs.
I want TCU in. That would make up for all of this sh*t.

Surprising no one, Utah to the Pac-10.

And now Mountain West has a Fresno-sized gap to fill. Come on!

As soon as I saw the headline on ESPN.com, I knew *Legion* had already linked to it.

Rat Boy wrote:

As soon as I saw the headline on ESPN.com, I knew *Legion* had already linked to it.

Fight Varsity!
On your toes dig in and hit that line!
We'll fight on to victory!
We're always true to FRES-NO STATE!

B - U - L - L - D - O - G - S
GO DOGS GO
FIGHT DOGS FIGHT
GOOOOOOOOO DOGS!

double post for awesomeness

Here's a Ryan Mathews to fill the space:

IMAGE(http://i.usatoday.net/sports/_photos/2008/09/09/fresnox.jpg)

Now, my wishlist is simply:

1) Have BYU stay in the conference. They have been floating the idea of going independent, while striking a deal with the WAC to play games with that conference.

MWC insists the move to grab Fresno and Nevada out of the WAC wasn't a maneuver to try and get BYU to stay. Hey, you don't hear me complaining.

2) Bring Houston into the conference from C-USA. They've long been considered a frontrunner for MWC expansion.

Losing Utah and adding Boise, Nevada, and Fresno in 2011 brings the conference to 11 teams. Adding Houston to make a 12 team conference would give the MWC a better argument for BCS consideration come 2013. Especially if someone outside of BYU, Boise, and TCU starts cracking the top 25.

I hope another ESPN headline proves *Legion* correct in a few weeks. The accuracy between the June-August posts is sweet.

I'm glad the MWC chose Nevada in addition to Fresno. I had been advocating them over Hawaii as the 3rd WAC team for MWC to take after Boise and Fresno. Nevada is an up-and-coming program, not altogether unlike Boise a few years ago (although I don't know that they'll get that high). I think the MWC is going to be pleasantly surprised with Nevada in a few years. A nice "buy low" acquisition.

Hawaii is the big loser. Nobody wants Hawaii in their conference. Nobody wants to deal with flying way the hell out to Honolulu. Hawaii was one of the worst football programs before June Jones took over and pulled them off the scrap heap (they went 0-12 the year before Jones was hired), and with Jones gone, they're heading right back down. I think their only hope was to get into a better conference and become a more desirable place to play/coach. Now they're permanently stuck in the WAC ghetto.

I think I have a good chance of having BYU stay. Weakening the WAC and strengthening the MWC certainly incentivizes staying versus going independent and making a deal with what's left of the WAC. The WAC is going to be looking at FCS schools like Montana and UC Davis to fill their gaps. I don't think taking on Cal Poly SLO is going to bring the TV dollars in for an WAC-scheduling independent BYU.

Getting Houston is more optimistic. But I wouldn't be surprised if the MWC gets a Conference USA team. UTEP and SMU are other options. The conference is already geographically in Texas with TCU, so another Texas school would fit in a MWC East division (especially since, of the 11 schools, there are 6 that clearly fit a MWC West: Fresno, Boise, Nevada, San Diego, UNLV, and BYU).

But it gets more interesting. Rumors are surfacing of not just MWC poaching a C-USA team, but rather MWC and C-USA merging to form a 20-team BCS "mid-major super conference". Interestingly, there would be 21 teams between the MWC and C-USA now, so I assume someone would be dropped (perhaps Wyoming).

I think it's more likely that the MWC pulls one team from C-USA to become a 12-team, two-division conference. If they can get someone like Houston and have that be enough to become a BCS conference, then they split the money between 12 teams instead of 20. But a MWC/C-USA super-conference would be second best. At least the smaller schools would have a seat at the BCS. No more undefeated mid-majors getting left out of the BCS entirely based on schedule.

EDIT: This story says the word is that TCU wants to bring in Houston for a 12th team, and New Mexico wants UTEP. Good to see that what I was hearing elsewhere appears right.

Also, the story calls winners and losers:

The winners:

• BCS conferences — When mid-majors have hold-me-back spats and try to weaken each other, the BCS conferences can go about their business of ignoring the outsiders.

• Fresno State, Nevada — They waited a long time for the MWC invitation; in one dizzying afternoon, their dreams came true.

• Boise State — It was looking bad when the Pac-10 plucked Utah, and BYU said it was considering becoming independent in football and joining the WAC in other sports. But with Nevada and Fresno State joining the MWC, it appears Boise State made the right decision.

Losers:

WAC — Has any NCAA conference been burglarized this many times?

Hawaii — It has to be annoying that the WAC's senior member can't get a sniff from the MWC. Not even travel subsidies or the Hawaii exemption are enough.

BYU — It didn't get any love when it asked for perks from the MWC. Instead, the league showed that all teams are replaceable when it went out and, well, found replacements.

I don't think the BCS wins because of mid-majors holding themselves back. I think they win by having all the good mid-majors consolidate into a conference to eventually admit into the BCS. Putting an end to the idea of "BCS Busters" is good for the BCS. If all the good non-BCS teams get together into a conference you can take seriously, the issue pretty much goes away.

I see it as UTEP or Houston. SMU is suck a f*cked program for the last few years, I see no one terribly wanting it.

boogle wrote:

SMU is suck a f*cked program for the last few years, I see no one terribly wanting it.

Two words: June Jones. He turned an even worse program (Hawaii) into a team that went to a BCS bowl. Hawaii was 2-10, 3-9, and 0-12 in the three years before Jones. They went 76-41 under Jones, and to 6 bowl games in 9 years. (They had gone to only 2 bowl games in the 45 years before Jones was hired)

SMU went 7-5 and went to a bowl game last year (and won!) for the first time since 1984, in only Jones' second year with the program.

I would love to have a June Jones coached team in the same conference as Fresno again. Hawaii was always a fun game.

I prefer Houston for the MWC's BCS chances. But I would definitely dig SMU. Jones is the dead program reviver.

So the MWC made an offer to Utah State too, who turned it down.

Utah State "[believed] in the pact all eight WAC schools made last week to stay together".

Apparently Utah State is a big reason why BYU was considering going independent and playing all non-football sports in the WAC.

Quote Utah State:

"We respectfully declined MWC interest and believed all WAC members would remain committed to our agreement."

Somebody's naive.

*Legion* wrote:

Quote Utah State:

"We respectfully declined MWC interest and believed all WAC members would remain committed to our agreement."

Somebody's naive.

Well, the buyout was pegged at $5M, so only $5M worth of naive, which is a lot for many schools in this economy. What they didn't realize was that (supposedly) Nevada hadn't actually signed the agreement!

firesloth wrote:

Well, the buyout was pegged at $5M, so only $5M worth of naive, which is a lot for many schools in this economy.

They don't make it sound like the $5 million is why they said no. Although perhaps they wouldn't say so even if it was.

I'm quite OK with Utah State not going to the MWC if the conference gets a good C-USA program for the 12th spot instead. But it sounds like BYU really wanted to share a conference with Utah State. I really hope BYU doesn't go forward with leaving the conference.

It's getting crazy.

There was a report that Houston was indeed joining the conference, with an update claiming the MWC hasn't spoken to them yet (as if they're going to broadcast the fact if they were speaking. Why stop being clandestine now?)

There is more talk about the MWC and C-USA together, not a merger this time, but the establishment of a championship game between the two conferences, with the idea being the winner of that championship game gets an automatic BCS bid.

The same report says BYU is still considering going independent in football and joining the WAC for all other sports. Of course, either a super-conference or some kind of championship game with a BCS bid would have to make BYU second-guess the idea of going solo.

Meanwhile, WAC Commissioner Karl Benson is confirming to anyone that will listen that they're talking to BYU. As if getting BYU in everything except football is a big score. Ship's takin' on more water, Cap'n!

I still hope for Houston entering + BYU staying + that 12 team version of MWC getting a BCS bid for themselves, but that is probably wishful thinking. At least the last part. The MWC/C-USA inter-conference championship game is a neat idea, though. The interesting part of that story was a quote from the "source" saying, "The lawyers have told the BCS that it's time to give someone else a chance."

Giving a piece of the pie to be shared among the two conferences that have consolidated almost all of the decent mid-major football schools would probably be a good survival move for the BCS. Give up a bit to pretty much put an end to any existential threats to the BCS. They still get to hold almost all of the cards to the big bowl games, and everyone else of any relevance is placated (for now, at least) with the fact that they at least have a guaranteed path to a BCS bowl if they're the best of the mid-majors.

Utah State is changing their mind.

They are now interested in accepting the MWC offer they turned down, but they want to be sure BYU is going to stay before they do it.

firesloth wrote:

Well, the buyout was pegged at $5M, so only $5M worth of naive, which is a lot for many schools in this economy. What they didn't realize was that (supposedly) Nevada hadn't actually signed the agreement!

There's now a new wrinkle to this.

The departures of Fresno State and Nevada have voided this agreement for the rest of the WAC.

So there's no $5 million payout holding Utah State back anymore.

Assuming Nevada still gets out of paying, only Fresno State will have to pay. Fresno takes the bullet for the rest of the WAC. YOU'RE WELCOME WAC SCHOOLS.

Hawaii is looking at going independent. The WAC is on the verge of complete collapse. (I wonder, does Fresno have to pay $5 mil if the conference collapses? Seems like they could just stall until there's no more WAC).

BYU going independent.

Rat Boy wrote:

BYU going independent.

IMAGE(http://s.ytimg.com/vi/Tim5nU3DwIE/0.jpg)

ESPN's Andy Katz is reporting here that the Big Ten alignment will look like this:

• Michigan, Nebraska, Iowa, Michigan State, Northwestern and Minnesota.

• And Ohio State, Penn State, Wisconsin, Purdue, Indiana and Illinois.

iaintgotnopants wrote:

ESPN's Andy Katz is reporting here that the Big Ten alignment will look like this:

• Michigan, Nebraska, Iowa, Michigan State, Northwestern and Minnesota.

• And Ohio State, Penn State, Wisconsin, Purdue, Indiana and Illinois.

The first half of that seems rather easier than the second, no?

MilkmanDanimal wrote:
iaintgotnopants wrote:

ESPN's Andy Katz is reporting here that the Big Ten alignment will look like this:

• Michigan, Nebraska, Iowa, Michigan State, Northwestern and Minnesota.

• And Ohio State, Penn State, Wisconsin, Purdue, Indiana and Illinois.

The first half of that seems rather easier than the second, no?

Actually, I had the opposite impression. Assuming Michigan comes to their senses, cans RichRod after this season and brings in a real coach they will be back to being Michigan in no time as the talent level hasn't really changed much, the 'top three' in each division is essentially a wash. The 'bottom three' is the main difference. MSU, Northwestern and Minnesota have a better chance of getting better than Purdue, Indiana and Illinois. MSU and Northwestern are already getting much better than they had been and Minnesota has drastically improved it's talent level but they need to stop bleeding coordinators to see what the talent can do.

Honestly, I think the Gophers are kind of the big winners here. Of the Iowa-Minnesota-Wisconsin three-way, they are the ones that gets to maintain both rivalries on a yearly basis. The Little Brown Jug is now an annual game. They are in the same division as Nebraska (apparently, Osbourne wanted to be in the same division as Minnesota given the history between the programs even though the history hasn't existed for quite a while).

I'm really torn between feeling bad for and thoroughly enjoying the Wisconsin fans that are (somewhat) rightfully pissed about where they ended up.