Starcraft II HotS Multiplayer Swarm-All

I think matchmaking is a bit off....I've played all 5 must games to get a rank for 1v1, 2v2 and 3v3, bronze, bronze, silver accordingly, the latter OBVIOUSLY because the other 2 partners always did the work, and I'm getting creamed..........sigh.....I need help. I don't know where I'm making a mistake. By the 3rd minute or so, I'm still at 90 - 100 money left, trying to get marauders and siege tanks, and everyone else is already starting up their SECOND expansion.

Then when I look at the graph at the end, it shows that in the beginning minutes, I was actually doing fine. I don't get it.

Furthermore, or, back on topic, I've been getting matched to play with people who easily overrun me while laughing, toasting bread, and I believe I saw 4 hydralisks playing poker, u know...to taunt me, all while I'm building my 6th supply depot...have few units....I don't know...

This was a game I really enjoyed, but today was brutal on me. I played like 9 games, won 1...vs medium AI...and barely...

I'll try again tomorrow or sometime within the weekend. Also, it would be really encouraging to play with people who don't yell/insult/spew/hate/ultrahate whenever I'm falling behind, which is all the time.

I guess I can summarize all this with: sigh...........poop.....

Sounds like you just need to focus on your basic build orders, economy and scouting. It's tricky, but it's the most important part of the game, especially early.

kexx:

I highly advise getting to know the people here and playing with them exclusively as much as you can. Pubbing is for people who don't have friends. A competitive game like SC2 is so much more pleasant when an opponent can cream you and you can honestly say in admiration, "Well played, sir! Well played."

As for how you play, well... ...there is a point in the game at which macro outweighs micro. Generally that's after your opponents get their second expansion. Peeps who get expansions in the third minute have weak forces at that point in time. If you're playing one base, the optimal response is to get together a fighting force really fast and strike as hard as you possibly can with what you have.

If you're playing Terran against an opponent who you KNOW will expand fast try this:

Don't get Siege Tanks. Put up 4 Barracks, Put Reactors on two of them and Tech Labs in the other two. Put a Tech Lab in the first one (mine gas early to afford it!) and put out a pair of Reapers (hotkey "R") for scouting and harassment ASAP. Then put in a unit queue two units in and always have the Raxes pumping units.

Don't get all four Barracks at the same time. Get out the first one fast, then roll out the other Raxes as your minerals pile (you'll know when you're starting to get excesses of about 100-150 minerals).

Don't stop making workers (hotkey "S"). EVER. There is only one excuse - upgrading to Orbital Command at supply 15. If you're not making workers because your supply is maxxed, you've made a mistake. Always make new Supply Depots when you're within 2 to 4 supply of being maxxed out. Concentrate on making units, units, units.

Position the Rally Point and your units at the ledge to your ramp. This way, they can fire on approaching enemy units while enjoying High Ground advantage.

At supply 84, attack the expansion. Don't forget to queue more units as you're attacking. This is best done by assigning all your Raxes to the "0" group and then ordering up units while you're not so busy in the field. Generally, assign Marauders (hotkey "D") first so the Tech Lab queues don't get bogged with Marines (hotkey "A"). Once you're done ordering up units, pick a spot on your map view. Right click the spot so your new troops will go there.

Practice this against the Medium AI. You WILL stomp it pretty decisively.

It's so hard for me to break bad habits in Starcraft. I know how important scouting is, I do it at the beginning of the match and then the rest of the match I tell myself over and over "scout damn you scout!" but I don't. It's like by mouse hand won't do what I want it to once a game starts going.

IMAGE(http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/957439412_cDdUj-L.jpg)

To motivate Kexx and the other "Greenhorns". MrDevil and me started against 2 very easy AIs too btw.

IMAGE(http://www.nerve.com/CS/blogs/61fps/phoenix_wright.jpg)

No! I deny! We played easy, I'm sure. Then we moved to Medium.

But yeah, two each time, we kick Gabe & Tycho's asses. \m/(~.~)\m/

BNice wrote:

It's so hard for me to break bad habits in Starcraft. I know how important scouting is, I do it at the beginning of the match and then the rest of the match I tell myself over and over "scout damn you scout!" but I don't. It's like by mouse hand won't do what I want it to once a game starts going.

Word! I get my 9 probe out (hehe) no problem, but struggle later. Unless you count throwing hordes of Zealots to their deaths against Siege Tanks and Thors as scouting.

kexx wrote:

I think matchmaking is a bit off....I've played all 5 must games to get a rank for 1v1, 2v2 and 3v3, bronze, bronze, silver accordingly, the latter OBVIOUSLY because the other 2 partners always did the work, and I'm getting creamed..........sigh.....I need help. I don't know where I'm making a mistake. By the 3rd minute or so, I'm still at 90 - 100 money left, trying to get marauders and siege tanks, and everyone else is already starting up their SECOND expansion.

Then when I look at the graph at the end, it shows that in the beginning minutes, I was actually doing fine. I don't get it.

Furthermore, or, back on topic, I've been getting matched to play with people who easily overrun me while laughing, toasting bread, and I believe I saw 4 hydralisks playing poker, u know...to taunt me, all while I'm building my 6th supply depot...have few units....I don't know...

This was a game I really enjoyed, but today was brutal on me. I played like 9 games, won 1...vs medium AI...and barely...

I'll try again tomorrow or sometime within the weekend. Also, it would be really encouraging to play with people who don't yell/insult/spew/hate/ultrahate whenever I'm falling behind, which is all the time.

I guess I can summarize all this with: sigh...........poop.....

goto the sc2 team liquid wiki and read up on race strats. I was in the same boat. Played like 20 practice matches and won only 3 or 4. After checking up on the site and changing my build order around i was able to finally start winning. I still need help though because whats working in the bronze division wont work in the higher ones. I'm still too slow against higher level opponents. I'm rarely able to transition into the next part of the game if i'm not able to take them out at the start.

At this point I'm a bit confused where to post these links but if you want to see a good game with Masq (the guy who pretty mch humiliated IdrA and also defeated WhiteRa) and see how you can counter a very early, cheesy terran push I suggest you check this game out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aqktg...

liquid wrote:

At this point I'm a bit confused where to post these links but if you want to see a good game with Masq (the guy who pretty mch humiliated IdrA and also defeated WhiteRa) and see how you can counter a very early, cheesy terran push I suggest you check this game out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aqktg...

Holy crap that announcer is ADD with the mouse clicks to the point of being distracting. He constantly clicks between buildings on the same screen. What do you know, its still building the same thing 1/3 of a second later.

Edit: He calms down a bit after the action starts. Nice use of force fields by the protoss player.

Alright! I've played through almost half the campaign and I'm itching to be owned.

Who wants to flop around like a dead fish in MP with me in 1v1 or 2v2? (I have not played a single RTS in any competitive manner whatsoever, ever)

Terran players, please tell me all the stuff I do wrong or don't do altogether (besides not knowing when to add more buildings, when to attack, not spending my resources when I'm attacking etc).
Watching the replay I saw I probably could have won the game when my first tank came out or if I had made a banshee instead of a raven first. Game sense - I have none?

IMAGE(http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-136198.jpg)

MrDeVil909 wrote:
BNice wrote:

It's so hard for me to break bad habits in Starcraft. I know how important scouting is, I do it at the beginning of the match and then the rest of the match I tell myself over and over "scout damn you scout!" but I don't. It's like by mouse hand won't do what I want it to once a game starts going.

Word! I get my 9 probe out (hehe) no problem, but struggle later. Unless you count throwing hordes of Zealots to their deaths against Siege Tanks and Thors as scouting.

Well, to be fair, you do need to know where those tanks and Thors are...

Yeah, true. But there must be a more efficient way that's escaping me.

kexx wrote:

Furthermore, or, back on topic, I've been getting matched to play with people who easily overrun me while laughing, toasting bread, and I believe I saw 4 hydralisks playing poker, u know...to taunt me, all while I'm building my 6th supply depot...have few units....I don't know...

I just wanted to comment on what a great description this was. Once I buy SC2, we can play together and bludgeon our way around some multiplayer - though by then, you'll already be sharper than me.

Luggage wrote:

Welcome to the show! Have fun getting your toes wet. ;)

Thanks! They are wet with the blood of my poor bloody marines. :p

liquid wrote:

Terran players, please tell me all the stuff I do wrong or don't do altogether (besides not knowing when to add more buildings, when to attack, not spending my resources when I'm attacking etc).
Watching the replay I saw I probably could have won the game when my first tank came out or if I had made a banshee instead of a raven first. Game sense - I have none?

IMAGE(http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-136198.jpg)

Pros:
+ Nice worker saturation in your main
+ Good use of scan to scout his tech at around 10-15 minutes
+ Attack upgrade for your Bio-based army

Cons:
- Supply blocked quite often (happens to me too, hardest "basic" to get on top of)
- You never really put your expansion to good use. It probably cost you almost as much as you made off of it.
- Never stop building units. When you set out for your drop/push against his base, yours was basically undefended. And at that time you already sat on 3k minerals and 1.5k gas.
- When in doubt how to spend your money, build Vikings, Marines and one or two Ravens. Those help to deal with most kinds of cheese like Stealth-Banshees, Void Rays, Ghosts and Dark Templars. And if your opponent doesn't cheese, you can use them to harass quite nicely (Overlord hunting, worker line busting, Hunter Seeker into Bio blob etc).

I added myself to the spreadsheet earlier this week, and seriously, anyone else who sucks horribly and wants to do some team games (compstomps or versus other humans) or 1v1 with me, if you see me on Steam or in Starcraft II, send me a message and if I'm up for it (I usually am!) I'll join in with you. I certainly welcome any and all constructive criticism on how to improve my gameplay, but don't team up with me if you're going to get frustrated at my incompetence.

MrDeVil909 wrote:

Yeah, true. But there must be a more efficient way that's escaping me.

I'm working on my scouting, too, since it's just so invaluable. I figure I'll break it down like this:

Robo-based strategy: early Observer
Air-based strategy: early Phoenix
Gateway-based strategy: research Hallucination after Warpgates, send over a Hallucinated Phoenix

Yeah, I usually 3 gate robo, so I should use observers. But remembering when I want to get more pew-pew out is the struggle.

More practice on that this weekend, although my 3 day weekend of all Starcraft all the time has become me being more sociable for at least a day and a half though. Bollocks.

Oh, and supply blocking. When you are pumping out big supply units it's easy to lose track.

7inchsplit wrote:
MrDeVil909 wrote:

Yeah, true. But there must be a more efficient way that's escaping me.

I'm working on my scouting, too, since it's just so invaluable. I figure I'll break it down like this:

Robo-based strategy: early Observer
Air-based strategy: early Phoenix
Gateway-based strategy: research Hallucination after Warpgates, send over a Hallucinated Phoenix

Mmm I foresee free observer kills in the future. Nom nom nom.

Luggage wrote:
liquid wrote:

Terran players, please tell me all the stuff I do wrong or don't do altogether (besides not knowing when to add more buildings, when to attack, not spending my resources when I'm attacking etc).
Watching the replay I saw I probably could have won the game when my first tank came out or if I had made a banshee instead of a raven first. Game sense - I have none?

IMAGE(http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-136198.jpg)

Pros:
+ Nice worker saturation in your main
+ Good use of scan to scout his tech at around 10-15 minutes
+ Attack upgrade for your Bio-based army

Cons:
- Supply blocked quite often (happens to me too, hardest "basic" to get on top of)
- You never really put your expansion to good use. It probably cost you almost as much as you made off of it.
- Never stop building units. When you set out for your drop/push against his base, yours was basically undefended. And at that time you already sat on 3k minerals and 1.5k gas.
- When in doubt how to spend your money, build Vikings, Marines and one or two Ravens. Those help to deal with most kinds of cheese like Stealth-Banshees, Void Rays, Ghosts and Dark Templars. And if your opponent doesn't cheese, you can use them to harass quite nicely (Overlord hunting, worker line busting, Hunter Seeker into Bio blob etc).

Thanks for the feedback! The reason I get supply blocked often is because I don't really know when is a good time to get supply depots and how many. Is it good to build one when I'm 10 food before I get blocked, build two at a time or is this just wasting money? This is one of those things that will improve when I have a bit higher APM and better multitasking skills I assume.
Building units is the hardest - especially when I'm on the offensive. It is harder for me to keep track of the units, they get me supply blocked and then I have to assign them a control group which makes it a pain in the ass when I have units all over the map slowly walking to the main army. Which is why I never really built more units and left my expo without many workers. When I attack I get obsessed with keeping control over the units so they don't really do something stupid (if you noticed how I lost that banshee, I sent it and forgot to cloak it).

The FPS genes in me make it even harder for me to work with control groups that are not 1, 2 or 3 which leads to a lot of scrolling and wasting time as well.

I'd say the hardest thing to remember is that you don't have to micro the fight every click. This is where most people lose focus of the base and production. If there's a minor lull, go and queue up a bunch of units. Remember you can queue attacks or movements if your units are dancing around.

Queueball wrote:

I'd say the hardest thing to remember is that you don't have to micro the fight every click. This is where most people lose focus of the base and production. If there's a minor lull, go and queue up a bunch of units. Remember you can queue attacks or movements if your units are dancing around.

quite often I'll lose the battle but win the war because I've sent my attacking force in, then managed to continue making units as they fight. I lose the fight but my reinforcements outweigh their current force and I wipe them out. A very good thing to learn is to go back to your production during combat. You don't have to micro everything during a fight.

It's all about rates. Your foundation is your rate of income, determined by the number of workers you have. You want to match this, as close as possible, with your rate of unit production. On top of that, you want to match your rate of supply production to your rate of unit production.

A good rule of thumb to avoid being supply blocked is to always be building another supply depot. Once your economy starts to pick up (and, therefore, your rate of unit production increases), you may need to start making two at a time. The Terran comsat upgrade has the ability to upgrade a supply depot. This is useful if you find yourself supply-blocked, but costs you the use of a MULE.

Try control grouping your barracks and other unit producing buildings that way in the a battle you can just hit the number key once queue up a few units and go right back to battle without ever taking your eyes away from the battle area.

I've been playing some comp stomp with Kexx this last week. The AI curve from medium to hard is really ramped up.

We're able to take on 3 mediums (when we survive their first attack) but 2 hards will make fun of us while their hydralisk play poker (the imagery stuck, what can I say).

Where at 2 v 1 Hard AI and 2 Medium AI, we'll let you guys know how it goes.

What I've noticed is we take too long to attack and give the AIs plenty of time to macro to their virtual heart's desire.

I've started to force myself to learn how to stop scrolling around. I've controlled my two barracks, so i can easily keep producing while attacking, and i have to say, it has helped me last a bit longer, but still getting c*ck-blocked by supply, and yes, i forget to keep scv's going...especially on expansions...

Thanks for all the tips, i'll try again later on at night, it will definitely be a nice experience to play with you goodjers...I've played with hobbes2099 a couple matches, and breander, who overran us with his zerg nefariously, but, it was fun.

Hope to see u guys on the field this weekend!! Thanks for tips!!

Yea if anyone's interested in comp stomp or league team matches hit up me, ElZoidberg. I'm doing alright, definitely willing to play whatever. Even playing the ai is good practice for build orders and efficiency.

I suppose at some point I'll have to just bite the bullet and go for my placement matches. I've been going with the practice matches for now... had started out winning a few, but mostly it's been losses... I think I'm 4-6 right now. I think my problem is development, because I have no problem starting out and getting a good economy going.

Also, I don't get the zerg yet. Not how they play, I used them a fair bit in SC1, but how the new units play and what their best uses are. Protoss I've got a decent grip on, even if I still play at low levels. I guess I'd be best off working on my zerg, and using them in my placement matches so I'll definately be put in bronze where I feel is where I should be.

Watching that match liquid had was interesting, in the placement his opponent put his depots and bunker in order to block the ramp. Makes good use of the depots ability to raise and lower to allow units through.

Also, if at all possible, should the first expansion you do go to a rich mineral node? Nearby expansions are more convenient, but surely the increased resources would give you the edge, all other things being equal?