Starcraft II HotS Multiplayer Swarm-All

mrwynd wrote:
breander wrote:

Any body got any tips for zerg vs terrans? A combined marine maurader with maybe a seige tank utterly destroys me.

zergling/hydra would work well against that kind of force.

Not if the Bioblob (Marines and Marauders) in front of the tanks is big enough and you have no chance of flanking the tanks with the Zerglings. To quickly melt that, I'd recommend throwing Banelings in. To fully profit, don't forget their speed upgrade. Send in Zerglings first to soak up the first tank shots. Following them on foot to not be hit by the tanks' splash damage are the Banelings. And remember to move the Hydras close to the tanks, so only a few of them can fire due to their minimum fire range (think hunter shots in WoW before they got changed in WOTLK).

Luggage wrote:

And remember to move the Hydras close to the tanks, so only a few of them can fire due to their minimum fire range (think hunter shots in WoW before they got changed in WOTLK).

Or think siege tanks from SC1...

breander:

Terrans are weak in one area: mobile detection. Their Ravens are high up the tech tree and they're none too tough. A Bioblob and Tanks also has very limited mobility. The tanks have to siege up before they fire, and that means they can't move.

Response to the threat depends entirely on the timing of the push. If it's a late early game timing push out of three or four Racks on a single base play, then I suggest getting Zerglings and Banelings - the optimum counter against Marines and Marauders. If it's latter-game, then you might want to transition to adding Mutas to your force, for taking out lone tanks and Ravens. For advancing Marines, Banelings with Centrifugal Hooks and Burrow are a real challenge.

Regardless of whether you win or not, it's hella fun to plant a couple Banelings in the way of your enemy and play mind games with his army advance by blowing up his forces with buried Banelings. Don't forget to space them out and take out the Ravens!

I got 6 pooled last night. I felt violated.

I think I need to get better at managing my army because I build the correct units I just don't move them around and attack at the right times. Also I never thought of burrowing banelings. Good tips guys thanks.

That burrowed baneling trick makes me want to play zerg just to try it.

liquid wrote:
breander wrote:

Any body got any tips for zerg vs terrans? A combined marine maurader with maybe a seige tank utterly destroys me.

Use the time to expand and build a huge economy, he will mostly have to stay put until he has enough tanks. You can try and control him by attacking him in the mineral line when he tries to push, drops, worms etc. You can also go for broodlords with infestors and banelings. Flank him, get him out of position and try to get the bigger concave.
Another sweet tactic is if you can try to infest his MM army and then throw a couple of infested marines in the middle - watch his tanks demolish his own units.

I'd be careful about the expanding advice. When I do my early marine/maruder/tank push, I love going against an early expanding zerg. It guarantees that my force is large and gives me a very good chance at destroying the expansion.

breander wrote:

Any body got any tips for zerg vs terrans? A combined marine maurader with maybe a seige tank utterly destroys me.

Use the time to expand and build a huge economy, he will mostly have to stay put until he has enough tanks. You can try and control him by attacking him in the mineral line when he tries to push, drops, worms etc. You can also go for broodlords with infestors and banelings. Flank him, get him out of position and try to get the bigger concave.
Another sweet tactic is if you can try to use fungal growth on his MM army and then throw a couple of infested marines in the middle - watch his tanks demolish his own units.
Keep in mind that I'm a bronze level terran so...

Has anyone figured out how to get the voice chat working yet or is it just broken?

breander:

Here's another tip: in SC2, the best defense isn't necessarily a good offense, but it can be for many situations. If the walk distance to your enemy is long and he's keeping watch with the WatchTowers, then I suggest teching up to Lair and then using the Nydus Network to tunnel into his main base. Once you have Zerglings attacking his SCVs, his instinct will be to pull back his entire army to defend his base. It's a bad instinct to have, but most players will have it, so take advantage of it.

Even better: rush Zerglings into his forces as they're heading back. They will either not be on attack-move and your Zerglings will slaughter them, or they will be and stop piecemeal to deal with your Zerglings (the attack-move command works on a per-unit basis!), while your harassment forces are having their way with his resource line.

The Nydus-Worm trick is especially useful in getting past Terran entrenched defenses to get at his mineral line, if you prefer not to tech up to Mutas just yet.

The take-away tip is that you can harass his mineral line to pull back his forces home. Your harassment force doesn't have to be huge - just very good at taking out Workers, and preferably mobile. You can keep a very expensive army home with a smaller raiding force, while you yourself are busy expanding all over the place.

Basically what a lot of other people have said:

Your real early-game weapon against MM is Banelings, which will totally devastate their force, especially if they just walk over them because Terran lacks early mobile detection. Later, Infestors with Fungal Growth kill them and prevent them from moving at the same time. Hydras also do well if you have something else to distract them, like a mass of Zerglings and Roaches.

Once Tanks come into the mix you have more of a problem, because he's not going to let you engage his marines and marauders without the tanks being in range to blast you. Mutas are vulnerable to Marines, but they can work if you use hit-and-run tactics or if he's especially marauder-heavy. Banelings still work, especially burrowed, because they can take out the front lines and then you can run in after the tanks with something else.

Something else nobody has mentioned yet: Roaches. Roaches are great against tanks once you get the move-while-burrowed upgrade, because you can stealth them right up to the tanks and pop up and kill them while in melee range when they can't shoot at you because you're too close, and a Roach is strong enough that it isn't going to die in one or two shots from some infantry while it's taking the tanks out. Once the tanks are down the rest of the army should be easy pickings.

Here is an example of an especially nasty piece of technique to pull out against Zerg if you're playing Protoss. The technique actually works decently against all comers, but it's especially nasty against fast-expand Zergies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=or2HN...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXdkv...

The basic strategy is fundamentally similar to a Terran 1-1-1, or the old SC1 Corsair tactics against Zerg. Get Air fast, then use your Air to harass Overlords.

As such, the basic build is similar to a Terran 1-1-1. Get up double Assimilators after the first Pylon finishes Warping in, race to double Stargates, then use Phoenixes to snipe away Workers and Overlords.

It bears mentioning that a heavy Phoenix force, like a heavy Viking or Banshee force, will always result in you having a profound excess of minerals, even if you max the gas harvesting as soon as plausible. This will start to occur at about the 5th air unit, assuming you use most of your gas for air.

For optimal macroing, hide away a proxy pylon and transition to 4-Warpgate Zealot rushing as soon as the minerals start to pile up. You can even use the minerals to get up Cannons at the proxy position, if you're inclined.

For Terrans, triple Rax with Reactors and a nonstop flood of Marines seals the deal.

EvilDead wrote:

Has anyone figured out how to get the voice chat working yet or is it just broken?

I've done quite a few tests and its broken as far as I can tell.

Has anyone figured out some science regarding matchmaking, movement between ladders and bonus pool replenishment? So far all I've found online is Blizzard's out of date FAQ.

Dax wrote:

Has anyone figured out some science regarding matchmaking, movement between ladders and bonus pool replenishment? So far all I've found online is Blizzard's out of date FAQ.

Dark witchcraft as far as I can tell. As is the voice chat.

Ya, the whole battle.net 2.0 thing confuses me a little with the matchmaking.

Dax wrote:

Has anyone figured out some science regarding matchmaking, movement between ladders and bonus pool replenishment? So far all I've found online is Blizzard's out of date FAQ.

From what I've gathered, and I'll try to post some links if I can find them afterwards:

Bonus Pool Points:

These are determined based off the length of time that your League/Division has been active. It doesn't matter how long you've been in the league, how much you've played (won or lost). Everyone will have the same number of total bonus pool points (of course minus what they've "spent") as anyone else in the league. Player A who has been in the division since the beginning will have used up 200 bonus pool points. I jump into the same division as him and am given 200 bonus pool points. We then all gain extra bonus pool points at the same rate, no matter how many games you win/lose or have even played.

Bonus pool points are spent by playing and winning a game. The number of points spent is based off of the skill difference of players. If I beat a player that is much weaker then me, I will have earned 1 point normally and then another 1 point from the bonus pool (Assuming I have any left). If I normally would have gotten 20 points, I then get an additional 20 points from the pool, assuming I have enough left.

Movement between ladders:

When you play games, you are matched up with people of similar skill (league) as you, but you are also matched up against people stronger/weaker then you from time to time. If you win against people better than you, you will slowly get moved up into a better league. If you lose against people worse than you, you will slowly get moved down into a worse league. It's also though that the game takes more than just your win/loss ratio to determine this. It is thought that it also might take into account your in game skills: APM, Average Unspent Resources, etc... I'm not sure about the validity of that statement though.

EvilDead wrote:

Has anyone figured out how to get the voice chat working yet or is it just broken?

It's broken, worked the first day for me and hasn't since. Some people think Blizzard took the voice server down due to heavy loads.

Ah, thanks, I never knew what the bonus pool was. I did however move up from bronze to silver last night, so thats a small victory. I can see my record getting much better as I found a fatal flaw in my game, with all 3 races.

Same, voicechat worked first day, then nothing since. I don't care that much about it since I've only been playing pub games, I need more friends.

Hey Luggage, I watched your game. Nicely done. Just one comment:

If you're going to build up such a big army so soon, you should really put them to use. Especially if you're going to make so many zealots, because if you let your opponent macro for too long, he could easily out-tech you, making all those zealots worthless. Imagine if he'd rushed for Colossi. I think he had enough time to get them too.

Good job shooting down his warpgate right away. Tough to focus on two fronts.

edit: Finished watching. The commentary at the end was classic. So much for the nice-guy "where ya from buddy?" act.

BNice wrote:

I got 6 pooled last night. I felt violated. :shock:

Happens to everyone. The easiest way to survive is to pull all your workers to attack.

liquid wrote:
breander wrote:

Any body got any tips for zerg vs terrans? A combined marine maurader with maybe a seige tank utterly destroys me.

Another sweet tactic is if you can try to use fungal growth on his MM army and then throw a couple of infested marines in the middle - watch his tanks demolish his own units.
Keep in mind that I'm a bronze level terran so...

I would've suggested mind-controlling the tank, but that's a cool trick.

Gotta admit, Infestors are the main reason why I'm trying to learn to play Zerg better. They're an all-star unit, especially against Terran. Fungal Growth takes care of the MMM blob, and Neural Parasite immediately neutralizes the large expensive units. Infestors win games. (You just need to survive until you can get them.)

I didn't realize how powerful infestors were until I started doing challenges. I really wish I had done the challenges before heading online.

scribble wrote:

I would've suggested mind-controlling the tank, but that's a cool trick.

Gotta admit, Infestors are the main reason why I'm trying to learn to play Zerg better. They're an all-star unit, especially against Terran. Fungal Growth takes care of the MMM blob, and Neural Parasite immediately neutralizes the large expensive units. Infestors win games. (You just need to survive until you can get them.)

I don't think he's mind controlling the siege tanks, but throwing some infested terrans. The siege will target the infested and the splash will deal friendly fire.

Happytime Harry wrote:

I can see my record getting much better as I found a fatal flaw in my game, with all 3 races. That fatal flaw was, of course...

??

Chumpy_McChump wrote:
Happytime Harry wrote:

I can see my record getting much better as I found a fatal flaw in my game, with all 3 races. That fatal flaw was, of course...

??

Mass worker unit rush strategy wasn't quite working out?

Chumpy_McChump wrote:
Happytime Harry wrote:

I can see my record getting much better as I found a fatal flaw in my game, with all 3 races. That fatal flaw was, of course...

??

We need more food!

Resource starved. It wasnt until i watched a few replays and saw that I didn't have enough gatherers. Optimum is 3 per node, so if there are 8 mineral nodes, and 2 vespene thats 30 in that one base. I was probably making 20ish, and it already seemed crowded. Now that I make more than I think I need, I am scoring much higher.

Happytime Harry wrote:

Resource starved. It wasnt until i watched a few replays and saw that I didn't have enough gatherers. Optimum is 3 per node, so if there are 8 mineral nodes, and 2 vespene thats 30 in that one base. I was probably making 20ish, and it already seemed crowded. Now that I make more than I think I need, I am scoring much higher.

General rule of thumb; never stop making workers. Ever.

Even if you end up with more than is optimal when you expand it's faster to move excess dudes than produce from afresh at your expansion.

Ya, it wasn't a big secret or anything, but it was my personal roadblock. At least I give myself a fighting chance now.

I have a question for all you SC pros out there. I'm halfway through the campaign, have started doing ok in the challenges, and I'm considering dipping my toe into PVP. I'm ok with losing while learning but I don't want to be constantly ROFLstomped. In your experience, will I be facing too stiff competition to catch up? That's what turned me off in games like Sins of a Solar Empire or Heroes of Newarth - the learning curve was just too steep.