2010/11 Soccer Thread - Hitting The Home Stretch

Typical Arsenal though, spurning chances against a team full of reserves and geriatrics, then get stung by the dead ball.

Defender chappy (Koscliceny ?) looked quite good, but a little on the light side.

davet010 wrote:

Typical Arsenal though, spurning chances against a team full of reserves and geriatrics, then get stung by the dead ball.

Yep.

Koscliceny = Koscielny. Which in Polish means, um... Ecclesiastical (or to translate literary: one who has something to do with church)

And of course Laurent Ecclesiastical is going to make most of his passes to Alex Dimitri Song Bilong,

UCRC wrote:
davet010 wrote:

Typical Arsenal though, spurning chances against a team full of reserves and geriatrics, then get stung by the dead ball.

Yep.

Koscliceny = Koscielny. Which in Polish means, um... Ecclesiastical (or to translate literary: one who has something to do with church)

And of course Laurent Ecclesiastical is going to make most of his passes to Alex Dimitri Song Bilong,

So long as they are all singing from the same hymn-sheet

Just watching Arsenal v Celtic. Wilshere's playing well, Celtic are absolute pish - I think they'll regret jumping in for Neil Lennon as manager.

davet010 wrote:
UCRC wrote:
davet010 wrote:

Typical Arsenal though, spurning chances against a team full of reserves and geriatrics, then get stung by the dead ball.

Yep.

Koscliceny = Koscielny. Which in Polish means, um... Ecclesiastical (or to translate literary: one who has something to do with church)

And of course Laurent Ecclesiastical is going to make most of his passes to Alex Dimitri Song Bilong,

So long as they are all singing from the same hymn-sheet

Just watching Arsenal v Celtic. Wilshere's playing well, Celtic are absolute pish - I think they'll regret jumping in for Neil Lennon as manager.

Yeah, I was watching and had the same thoughts. Judging by few games Ive seen him play Wilshere looks capable of some defensive work and likes to go after the ball. He might be good counter-balance to other attacking players who generally don't mind just standing around and chilling out after losing the ball.
(With exception of Robin van Persie who's '100% commited' or in other words, absolutely crazy about going into stupid tackles or barging into people. This season I expect him to wear pocket revolver and just shoot defenders in the back after they disposses him.)

UCRC wrote:

(With exception of Robin van Persie who's '100% commited' or in other words, absolutely crazy about going into stupid tackles or barging into people. This season I expect him to wear pocket revolver and just shoot defenders in the back after they disposses him.)

Arsene ought go get Van Bommel and go back to the good old days when Arsenal would accrue 22 red cards in a season, none of which Arsene would have a clear view of.

Apparently, Twitcher has been trying to persuade City to let him have Craig Bellamy on loan. Oh aye, like that was always going to happen. He was probably asking for some 'expenses' as well.

Sell him to Fulham.

In other exciting news, it's rumoured that there are people out there ready to pay real cash money to acquire the services (for a couple of weeks, until he's out again) of Roque Santa Cruz. Good luck with finding any YouTube highlight reels of him that aren't monochrome silent reels.

davet010 wrote:

there are people out there ready to pay real cash money to acquire the services (for a couple of weeks, until he's out again) of Roque Santa Cruz

Like... Manchester City?

Yeah, the Sheikhs must have spent, ooo, 45 minutes earnings on him. He's also the perfect answer to the 'why did City get rid of Mark Hughes' conundrum - well, him, and Joleon Lescott and Wayne Bridge.

Well, I was expecting this kind of argument and have no answer... it's quite lame but hey, it's your money.
(I think of Joker from last Batman movie burning that huge pile of money wherever someone mentions City ever since I've heard what kind of money they are willing to pay Yaya Toure.)

Don't believe everything that you read - the press over here are gunning for City. For example, for some reason City's bids are quoted with a price of initial fee plus the player's estimated wages over the life of his contract. No one else seems to get that treatment, but then because the press spent years ignoring City, they have no insiders or long-cultivated contacts to go to, so they actually have to (gasp !) do some research...at which they fail dismally as most of them just spend time recycling other people's made up tales, rather than being journalists.

Toure's wages, basic, are 120k per week, not the 200k quoted - to get that we'd have to win all 3 domestic trophies plus the Europa Waste-of-time-League.

As for being a lame argument, well that's your opinion. But I'd rather do it that way than exploit EU contract law to gut European clubs of their under-18s, or just spend millions on them and try to claim them as your own.

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but you can't take any outside criticism of City whatsoever, can you? I mean, back when Robinho showed up, and we said City had paid a ton of money for a preening prima donna who was only going to play well as long as he stayed interested, you literally followed this exact same pattern.

1.) One of us criticizes City.
2.) You defend City, saying whatever the issue cited is is actually a media-hyped non-issue and that the truth has City being nothing but fair and forthcoming.
3.) End with a rejoinder about how one of our favorite clubs is somehow totally morally compromised and we have no right to talk about scrupulous, pure City.

Sometimes 3 precedes 2.

Seriously. Every. Time. I mean, come on dude.

AAAAAAaaaanyway...

Anderson nearly killed himself recently. I'm sure Fergie will be thrilled about that.

Joan Gaspart's stuck his nose into the Cesc saga by intimating that Arsene was ready to leave Arsenal in 2001 for Barca.

Asian Billionaire In Liverpool Takeover Bid. And how this will affect where Fernando Torres goes. He's certainly a class striker, but of the interested teams outlaying some 30m on his services, it still seems a bit high a price. If he can stay healthy though, he could certainly justify it better than Berbatov has his price.

Oh, and Rafa Marquez to the Red Bulls. I've disliked Rafa since the 2002 World Cup (that's 2-0 USA El Tri fans, remember that), but he's only 31, so i'm not sure whether I feel this is another smart move to bring a class player to the MLS or a sign of possible NASLization of the league. Again, like Henry, I don't think Rafa's only possible jobs in Europe were going to be with Mansfield Town.

Yeah. Marquez might have taken some stick last season, but when he's not injured he's still very good player. Just like Henry he's been important for Barca in 2008/2009 and not too involved past season, but I don't believe that he could have got that much worse.

Didn't Torres say that he stays or something to that effect few days ago?

I'm not putting any particularly large amount of faith into anything Torres says right now. Maybe it's me.

Prederick wrote:

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but you can't take any outside criticism of City whatsoever, can you? I mean, back when Robinho showed up, and we said City had paid a ton of money for a preening prima donna who was only going to play well as long as he stayed interested, you literally followed this exact same pattern.

1.) One of us criticizes City.
2.) You defend City, saying whatever the issue cited is is actually a media-hyped non-issue and that the truth has City being nothing but fair and forthcoming.
3.) End with a rejoinder about how one of our favorite clubs is somehow totally morally compromised and we have no right to talk about scrupulous, pure City.

Sometimes 3 precedes 2.

Seriously. Every. Time. I mean, come on dude.
.

Maybe, maybe not. But can you disprove number 2 ?

In other exciting news for today, City are looking at......just kidding

In real other exciting news, today is D-Day in the High Court for Portsmouth FC. Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs objected to the original CVA, which had all creditors receiving 20p in the pound, on the grounds that some of the amounts owed to HMRC were not included in the original count, and thus they got less votes than they were entitled to.

If HMRC win the case, basically Portsmouth will be gone. They won't accept a CVA with that sort of figure, but the club won't be able to afford a larger distribution unless someone else buys the club. Portsmouth aren't a very attractive proposition, as they have a very poor ground (and the surrounding land is still owned by Gaydamak, their ex-owner) and are currently in the Championship with a squad of about 14 contracted players and no keeper...oh, and a transfer embargo. HMRC are really pushing on this, they want to make an example of one club 'pour encourage les autres'.

If Portsmouth win - they'll get HMRC off their case, but are still deep in the mire. A lot of bookies aren't even offering odds for them to go down again this season.

davet010 wrote:

Maybe, maybe not. But can you disprove number 2 ?

What? That buying Roque Santa Cruz wasn't the best bit of business, that Robinho didn't pan out? That City have made bad decisions?

I understand good faith but for 99% of these clubs are corrupt to the gills at these levels. Much like in the NCAA, it's largely a matter of who gets caught v. who hides it well and has powerful allies. There are no innocents.

Congrats to the U.S. U-20s for winning the Milk Cup in the meantime, sure, it means nothing, but they played well and deserved the win.

I am thrilled people are making the Mesut Ozil - Beaker comparison, although Ozil is a great deal more composed in general, I will now imagine him going "MEEP MEEP MEEP MEEP" in terror anytime he gets clattered by a defender. Which, if he heads to England, may begin happening a bit more than he's used to.

I'm not sure how I feel about Pompey. It feels like too many clubs are being folded up these days, but then again, it's generally not down to some horrible evil men at the FA who hate Football, it's down to greedy, corrupt owners and directors putting unmanageable debts on the clubs, they can't sit back and let teams just do this. It is clear that overspending and a total lack of any kind of financial responsibility is rife across Europe, in all the leagues. Hell, the financial situation at Mallorca got them punted out of the Europa League.

I don't agree with making one club an example, but something has to change, as the current model seems pretty clearly unsustainable. Short of City and Chelsea, I would argue that there isn't a single Premier League club that isn't hugely dependent on European competition/staying up for financial stability.

This is what confuses me about anyone trying to buy a football team these days. It's entirely a ego-move, because, for the owner, unless you're leveraging the club with all the debt, it's a money-losing venture.

Also, only Real Madrid would be dumb enough to try and pry Stevie G away from Liverpool, because whatever they charge for him, it's going to be too much. I don't think Gerrard's bad, mind you, I think he's still one of the best English midfielders around, but I don't think he has the mentality or (say it quietly) the technique for La Liga and Real Madrid.

then again, he might fit in with Mourhino, since, even though his Chelsea teams had their day sometimes, noone has ever associated Jose with the slightly-more-defensively-sound variant of Keegan-ball* Real Madrid's culture seems to demand.

*-Oh yes, i'm taking that one to the bank. Any/all teams who set out to try and win a game 8-7 will now be said to be playing "Keegan-Ball"

Prederick wrote:

I'm not sure how I feel about Pompey. It feels like too many clubs are being folded up these days, but then again, it's generally not down to some horrible evil men at the FA who hate Football, it's down to greedy, corrupt owners and directors putting unmanageable debts on the clubs, they can't sit back and let teams just do this. It is clear that overspending and a total lack of any kind of financial responsibility is rife across Europe, in all the leagues. Hell, the financial situation at Mallorca got them punted out of the Europa League.

I don't agree with making one club an example, but something has to change, as the current model seems pretty clearly unsustainable. Short of City and Chelsea, I would argue that there isn't a single Premier League club that isn't hugely dependent on European competition/staying up for financial stability.

This is what confuses me about anyone trying to buy a football team these days. It's entirely a ego-move, because, for the owner, unless you're leveraging the club with all the debt, it's a money-losing venture.

It's always been this way - except that until the era of becoming a listed company (yes, hello Man U who started it), most chairman did it for the kudos, publicising their own name/business as a spinoff and other small scale benefits. I can't believe that anyone ever took over a football club actually expecting to make money on this investment - it's not like NFL franchises where you can hope that the value will go up and you can get out with a profit.

The 'making an example' comment is not strictly related to this sort of business, but has been largely triggered by recent changes in UK legislation, namely the Enterprise Act 2006.

Before this, HMRC were a preferred creditor - whatever assets a failed business had went to settle their debts with HMRC 100%, then whatever was left got distrbuted. After the act, HMRC just gets a share with everyone else. This has made them a great deal more aggressive in seeking to maximise their cut, and to get in there and start gutting a club before their continuing deficit trading activities further reduce the amount available.

HMRC's take with Pompey is also that they have illegally attempted to collude with players by paying their image rights contract terms into overseas bank accounts, thus avoiding tax altogether. This might also have ramifications for other clubs.

Aaaand to illustrate my previous point about Wilshere...

IMAGE(http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/gallery/top-20-pics-1-2-august-2010/pa-9256569.jpg)

...that's how you tackle when you can't tackle.

BBC now reporting that Portsmouth have won the latest round of their battle against HMRC. Full details not released yet, so it may be that HMRC will be given leave to appeal.

So, now, it seems like Liverpool isn't just going to get bought out by a Chinese businessman, but by the PRC itself. (I'm oversimplifying here, of course, but whatever.)

They're already The Reds, we're going to have to make up a bunch of Communist/Maoist jokes if this goes through. I'll get the ball rolling.

Will this be the year Liverpool finally makes the Great Leap Forward?

I've heard Roy Hodgson can be a bit unorthodox in his tactics, might he play a Tianamen Square?

Perhaps this takeover may spur something of a Cultural Revolution at Liverpool.

Finding the Arsenal method of play to overpopulate the field, Liverpool will be implementing a "One Pass Policy".

IMAGE(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e6/Yi_Gang_Wei_Gang_Quan_Mian_Yue_Jin.jpg)
FOR GOD'S SAKE SOMEONE PHOTOSHOP IN GLEN JOHNSON.

Oh, and here's one for you Dave, Adebayor on his way out? Rumor mill prattle or a sliver of truth?

Prederick wrote:

So, now, it seems like Liverpool isn't just going to get bought out by a Chinese businessman, but by the PRC itself. (I'm oversimplifying here, of course, but whatever.)

They're already The Reds, we're going to have to make up a bunch of Communist/Maoist jokes if this goes through. I'll get the ball rolling.

Will this be the year Liverpool finally makes the Great Leap Forward?

I've heard Roy Hodgson can be a bit unorthodox in his tactics, might he play a Tianamen Square?

Perhaps this takeover may spur something of a Cultural Revolution at Liverpool.

Finding the Arsenal method of play to overpopulate the field, Liverpool will be implementing a "One Pass Policy".

IMAGE(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e6/Yi_Gang_Wei_Gang_Quan_Mian_Yue_Jin.jpg)
FOR GOD'S SAKE SOMEONE PHOTOSHOP IN GLEN JOHNSON.

Oh, and here's one for you Dave, Adebayor on his way out? Rumor mill prattle or a sliver of truth?

PRC spokesman has denied it, and this guy heading it up hasn't got the dosh on his own account.

Or there's the version from the Daily Mash

WE EXECUTE THIEVES, CHINA WARNS LIVERPOOL Print E-mail
05-08-10

THE Chinese government has warned the people of Liverpool that it will not tolerate the theft of its property once it buys the local football club.

Under the takeover deal Anfield and the surrounding five square miles will become Chinese sovereign territory and subject to the rule of Beijing's iron fist.

A Chinese government spokesman said: "Your proud football production plant will become an ornament of our republic.

"We will increase efficiency through tightly controlled rations and a programme of incentives including not being beaten with a length of bamboo or thrown into a snake pit.

"And our new comrades would do well to remember that while all property is theft, the theft of property will result in you being shot in the back of the head and your family being sent a bill for the bullet."

The spokesman added: "We feel confident that the most effective football playing units will show solidarity with the new regime. Also Mr Gerrard and Mr Torres will find it difficult to move to another club when their ankes are chained to a broken lavatory in a tiny concrete room."

Meanwhile Stephen Gerrard's wife Alex has already invested in a range of high-necked dresses and chopsticks for her hair and hopes to win favour with her ruthless new masters with a delicate rendition of the Flower Drum Song.

But experts said that while many Liverpudlians would regard summary execution as 'harsh', in general the takeover would have little practical effect on a city that is used to being run by demented communists.

Dr Tom Logan, from one of those Liverpool universities, said: "Being run by the Chinese could be the best thing that has ever happened to this city. Liverpool could become the new Hong Kong, but without any businesses or people with jobs."

Adebayor ? 14 goals in an interrupted season, but he can seem a little...disinterested. If he goes and we buy Dzeko then that's good, keep him if not.

Prederick wrote:

Will this be the year Liverpool finally makes the Great Leap Forward?

I've heard Roy Hodgson can be a bit unorthodox in his tactics, might he play a Tianamen Square?

Perhaps this takeover may spur something of a Cultural Revolution at Liverpool.

Finding the Arsenal method of play to overpopulate the field, Liverpool will be implementing a "One Pass Policy".

Oh, I see what you did did did did there.

It's the same Chinese hundreds-of-billions fund that buys everything else, right? Well, to me the biggest surprise was that they didn't do it earlier, they seem to be buying all sort of property like crazy. (Which shows how poor business buying a football club is right now.)

davet010 wrote:

Adebayor ? 14 goals in an interrupted season, but he can seem a little...disinterested.

Him? Disinterested? C'est impossible!

Euro draws

CL - Spurs vs Young Boys Berne (easiest one they could have got)

EL - Liverpool vs Trabzonspor (Turkey), City v Timisoara (Rumania), Aston V vs Rapid Vienna - all much of a muchness.

So, this will almost certainly be Cesc's last season in London then?

So, Martin O'Neill does one from Villa. Five days before the start of the season.

Word from my Villa supporting chums is that the Milner deal isn't the problem, but that MON was told that not only would he only receive a proportion of the money from that deal, but that the board was likely to accept a bid from Twitcher to take Ashley Young to Spurs.

Speculation on Sky Sports News is that he's done a Brian Clough - lodged his resignation with the club to express his annoyance, then received a surprise when the club said - "OK, thanks for your efforts, drop the keys at reception on the way out."

Ruh roh.. looks like Thierry Henry is injured already. This is the big downside to star-based attempts at raising the profile of sports. No star, no profile..
http://www.bigapplesoccer.com/teams/...

The Swiss Ramble just posted the king of all articles on the current situation at Barca. Haven't seen any better analysis so far.

As an example of how absurd the total liabilities definition is, just look at how high other clubs’ gross debt would be using this measure: Real Madrid €683 million, Liverpool €578 million and Manchester United €1.1 billion. Even Arsenal, which is regarded as the template for financial sustainability, would have “debt” of €767 million (though it’s come down a lot since the last annual accounts). This places Barcelona’s €552 million firmly into context. To use an old adage, you have to compare apples with apples.

Under UK accounting practice, net debt includes bank overdrafts and loans, owner and/or related party loans and finance leases less cash and cash equivalents. Under this definition, Barcelona’s net debt in last year’s accounts was actually only €20 million, compared to Rosell’s total liabilities of €489 million.

Of course, there are many that would like to see Barcelona fail after their unseemly pursuit of Arsenal captain, Cesc Fabregas, which has dominated this summer’s transfer talk. This culminated in an extraordinary statement last week, where they admitted that none of their bids “exceeded €40 million”, which is either massive disrespect to a player of Cesc’s talent or demonstrated a new-found sense of financial prudence. Take your pick.

In a way, the desire for Barcelona’s future prospects to be hamstrung by financial woes is perfectly understandable, as they have undoubtedly sullied their saintly image with their constant tapping-up and inability to shut up about Cesc’s Barcelona DNA, but it looks like reports of their demise might be a little premature. After all, if things get really desperate, they could always raise €100 million by selling Messi.

So are Barcelona going bankrupt? No way, José.

Just two excerpts. The article is way bigger and also takes a closer look at the accounting that was done in the past year.

2-0 to Brazil, in a result that ought to surprise no-one.

Ricardo Carvalho to Real Madrid. I think he's still got legs in him, and he always was a better defender than EBJT.

Hmm, just skimmed through that Swiss Ramble article, and while there is a lot of information in there, some of the analysis is somewhat dubious, and that's being polite.

Pred's league table is interesting, I can agree with most of it, perhaps with the following changes in my version.

- Swap Man u and Arsenal

- Swap West Ham and Newcastle

- Swap Bolton and Blackpool. Apparently Ian Holloway all but resigned yesterday when his chairman told him that the club's wage structure limits the highest earner to 10k per week, so they can't get anyone to sign for them. Blackpool know that they won't survive, so they are committed to taking as much of this season's £60m back down with them.

On another tack, anyone interested in Fantasy (proper) Football ?