I have some things to say about LeBron James

I'm actually a Heat fan disappointed with this situation. I was stoked about getting Bosh, but Lebron's circus has bothered me, and I'm concerned about having four players and zero cap space left. Plus, this is essentially going to make the Heat the basketball version of the Yankees. Every fan of other teams will hate them, every bandwagon jumper will crowd them, and they still won't be terribly effective.

This just isn't what I was hoping would happen. God knows what they're going to run out at center.

It also feels dirty, like the opposite of collusion. If management is frowned upon for scheming, why not players?

Blind_Evil wrote:

I'm actually a Heat fan disappointed with this situation. I was stoked about getting Bosh, but Lebron's circus has bothered me, and I'm concerned about having four players and zero cap space left. Plus, this is essentially going to make the Heat the basketball version of the Yankees. Every fan of other teams will hate them, every bandwagon jumper will crowd them, and they still won't be terribly effective.

This just isn't what I was hoping would happen. God knows what they're going to run out at center.

It also feels dirty, like the opposite of collusion. If management is frowned upon for scheming, why not players?

No no, the Yankees can afford to get role players and have a good minor league system. Cheers =)

I feel for you, I do. Your team will probably have the best record in the East and fold in the first 2 rounds of the playoffs every year. Oh, and word is that LeBron wanted to take just Bosh with him to Chicago first, but they put their foot down and told him he wouldn't be running the team like he did in Cleveland. So... enjoy it. Your team is going to be really fun to watch.

If anyone needs me, I'll be working in Cleveland all day today, listening to the same conversations happen a 1000 times every hour and hoping free agents will want to come work for an owner who owns a team in a dying city that has terrible winters and no night life who writes crazy letters to people who leave and tries to work the hoodoo on them. Big day.

mindset.threat wrote:
Fedaykin98 wrote:

I don't know if this was already asked, because I skipped to the most recent page, but does Miami have triple max space? Can they accomplish a sign and trade for Bosh?

I would die laughing if the deal fell through because of money.

They basically gave Michael Beasley to Minnesota (2008 #2 draft pick, not very good) to clear the cap space for 3 almost max contracts. But in order to fit Bosh's contract into the scenario Toronto has to agree to a sign-and-trade that satisfies them. So Toronto is in the driver seat. I think they'll all take less money in order to play together, but they'll be making so much that anyone else they sign will be making chump change in comparison. There's not much cash left for a supporting cast.

Oh, good, Beasley in Minnesota, a total immature head case who is going to respond so well to the idea of moving from South Beach to Minneapolis. I mean, I much prefer the Twin Cities to Miami, but I'm not an overpaid moron who likes to spend his evenings snorting coke off hookers' asses.

I came in here to crack jokes but I just don't have the heart.

I'm sorry Ceveland.

oilypenguin wrote:

No no, the Yankees can afford to get role players and have a good minor league system. Cheers =)

That has more to do with the terrible issue of salary imbalance in baseball than anything else. The Heat would throw another 30 mil around for a supporting cast, but basketball has the salary cap to avoid situations exactly like what has happened.

Some analysts are saying some veterans will be willing to take minimum deals to play with these guys and get a shot at a championship. I believe Gary Payton and Karl Malone tried that with the Lakers in 2004, and didn't end up winning squat.

Sending to sports.

This one's for Cleveland, and for Mecha.

BTW, if I had to hear LeBron say the word: "ORGAN-EYE-ZATION" one more time, I was going to strangle someone.

I forget who said it, but they hit the nail right on the head. Simply put, Jordan retired from basketball, played minor league baseball, went back to the Bulls and then retired for good, and would have never done something like LeBron did last night.

Oh yeah, and Jordan had the hardware to justifying him to do something like this, LeBron is still waiting on a ring. And Jordan certainly wouldn't have pulled the antics that LeBron pulled in Game 5 and 6 this past playoffs. He knew he was leaving Cleveland the minute he walked off the court in Game 6 and tore off his jersey.

By going to Miami, LeBron is Wade's boy, what Pippen was to Jordan. A wing-man. From LeBron the King to LeBron the Wing.

And the other factor, since when is Bosh a basketball superstar? They will probably win a championship, but it's not a dynasty. I personally hope LeBron never wins one.

Another good column from Joe Posnanski (who's always cranky, so I like reading him). A highlight:

And when backed into a corner, he had to ask himself the question: Was he good enough to win a championship with an uncertain cast in Cleveland? Was he able to build a team? My suspicion is: He just wasn’t sure. Michael Jordan was a great player and a killer on the court. Kobe Bryant is a great player and a killer on the court. LeBron James … is a great player.

There are reports that James tried to convince Chris Bosh to come to Cleveland to play with him there … Bosh preferred the beaches of Miami and the cover of Dwayne Wade. And LeBron James, faced with the decision so big that it became The Decision on ESPN, follows Chris Bosh. You have to ask yourself if you could imagine Jordan or Magic or Bird or Kareem or Russell following Chris Bosh in hopes of glory.

LeBron has indeed been exposed as a sidekick. He should have let everyone know sooner. Also people can say all they want that LeBron always gave 100%, but anyone who saw the last couple games of the Celtics series knee something was different. Something was off. Either he quit on them or he tanked so he could leave.

LeBron hopes someday he can have a career as storied as Pippen. Until then he's Bernard King or Oscar Robertson before teaming with Alcindor.

Finally, yeah, Bosh isn't a "superstar". That term gets used a little carelessly.

You have to ask yourself if you could imagine Jordan or Magic or Bird or Kareem or Russell following Chris Bosh in hopes of glory.

I think he's forgetting when Jordan followed Charles Oakley to the Wizards after Oakley went there seeking a championship with Christian Laettner.

That show last night was atrocious and hilarious. But one thing I can't agree with is people thinking 3 superstars and a bunch of scrubs can't win championships. That's just silly, this is the NBA, where only superstars win championships. Scrubs look very good when the other team is double teaming two superstars, see Derek Fischer or any other player on the Lakers this year that wasn't Gasol or Kobe.

The Heat = The Yankees, they'll win just might not be every year. And I'm a Blazers fan so I would love it if the NBA was about the team but it's not, the rules change in the playoffs to more physical and more superstar oriented.

It's definitely tilted towards superstars, but you still need role players. I think that's part of what rubs people wrong about this. That these 3 assume that they alone can win a title. If you really cared about winning wouldn't you take less money so you could easily bring back quality role players? Jordan and Pippen needed Kerr, Hodges, Paxson, Armstrong, Grant and Rodman. Heck, even Cartrwright was important. Duncan needed Bruce Bowen. Isaiah had Laimbeer, Mahorn, Salley, The Microwave. Kobe couldn't get over the top until Gasol came along and then for the second title needed help from Artest.

So while it may be a superstar tilted league everyone is undervaluing the importance of role players. Especially the superstars.

Boston won with 3 superstars who'd spent a decade losing a lot of games and getting injured in the process. It worked for those three because they were mature about coming together in Boston from beginning to end. They put their ego's aside for a championship. They also really, really lucked out with the some of the players that developed around them as the season wore on. I mean, Rondo? No one thought he'd emerge into the player he is today. Thats just one example.

Right now Miami has literally 1-2 players under contract. That leaves a sh!tload of building left to do. One of the guys in their rumor mill is Mike Miller... he can't play D, he can't rebound, he can't pass and he's slow as molasses. The only thing he can do is shoot. Kind of a problem.

There's also a big difference between shlubs and guys like Derek Fisher or Bruce Bowen. Fisher and Bowen are often starters and, if they aren't, they're at worst 6th or 7th men, guys who can always come in and contribute. Boston has guys like Perkins and Davis, L.A. has Fisher, Artest, and Farmar. Can those guys carry you to a title? Nope. That being said, barring the Miami Three taking significantly lower deals, the Heat can't afford those guys. If all the Heat can afford is guys like Brian Scalabrine, Adam Morrison, and other guys who normally just sit at the end of the bench.

Maybe Pat Riley can do one of his legendary sales jobs to bring some quality role players in, but I have to ask--where's he going to find them this year? Who is still out there and available that you'd want to start? There are currently four players under contract in Miami, and that includes James, Wade, and Bosh. Right now, it's them and Mario Chalmers. Where's anyone else decent who's going to play on that team?

Well I really hope I get some more tickets for throwaway Heat games this year. A friend of the family has mid-court tickets about 20 rows up that are just plain awesome. I've been unable to take advantage of the seats the last few times he has passed them on.

As far as the Heat not having a roster. It is July 9th not October 31st. Plenty of times to make moves. We have no idea what these guys are signing for and as a result how much cap room they will have. I think there will be three players seeing a "magical" bump in their endorsement contracts.

I don't like the way LBJ handled this. I feel bad for the Cleavland fans, but not for Dan Gilbert. He's just some angry rich guy that saw his $1,000,000,000 investment drop to a $200,000,000 investment overnight. It's nice that Dan Gilbert wrote a damning letter on behalf of the fans, but if he loved Cavs fans so much why didn't he buy the team pre-LBJ to try and make them a winner?

edit: Yay for the state of Florida having another team everyone loves to hate!

This looks like a pretty fair and definitive article is you're interested.

Certis wrote:

Sending to sports.

Hooray! Sports threads in Everything Else drive me up the wall!

Prederick wrote:

EDIT: Oh God, I agree with Simmons TWICE.

Good stuff. And backs up what I said yesterday... he's no Jordan.

Because the other part feels as if we learned something substantial about LeBron James this spring. I always thought his ceiling looked like this: Jordan's DNA crossed with Magic's DNA crossed with Bo Jackson. Nope. Take the Jordan DNA out. Have to. Jordan was a ruthless mother******. Jordan was a killer. Jordan didn't care if his teammates despised him. Jordan never, ever, not in a million years, would have allowed his team to quit in the final two minutes of Thursday night's game the way LeBron did. His teammates feared him, loathed him, revered him and played accordingly. Bird had that same quality. In the second half of his career, so did Magic. Winning meant so much to those guys that their teammates almost didn't have a choice; they had to follow suit. Or else.

He goes on to compare him to Doc J, quite accurately. This quote is key:

Doc captured two ABA titles (in '74 and '76). LeBron hasn't won anything. Of course, the ABA played right into Doc's wheelhouse: The league didn't have enough big guys, nobody played defense, a school-yard-type game carried the day, and the league was diluted enough that someone as gifted as Doc could run roughshod. When the ABA and NBA merged in the summer of 1976, Doc switched teams (to Philly) and the big question became, "When will Dr. J win an NBA title?"

And he spent years coming up short, until they finally got Moses Malone in there to help him win one in 83.

Ah hell just read the whole article. Brilliant stuff. And it even echoes what some people are saying today... in Miami he becomes Pippen, Chicago was the right move. Oh well.

Go Bulls, go Celtics, go Magic, go Cleveland... I'm an ABM fan right now, anybody but Miami.

DSGamer wrote:

It's definitely tilted towards superstars, but you still need role players. I think that's part of what rubs people wrong about this. That these 3 assume that they alone can win a title. If you really cared about winning wouldn't you take less money so you could easily bring back quality role players? Jordan and Pippen needed Kerr, Hodges, Paxson, Armstrong, Grant and Rodman. Heck, even Cartrwright was important. Duncan needed Bruce Bowen. Isaiah had Laimbeer, Mahorn, Salley, The Microwave. Kobe couldn't get over the top until Gasol came along and then for the second title needed help from Artest.

So while it may be a superstar tilted league everyone is undervaluing the importance of role players. Especially the superstars.

Don't forget "Big Shot Rob" Horry. Best role player of the last two decades, if not all time. Rockets, Spurs, Lakers. Huge part of all 7 title teams he was on. Seven

*Legion* wrote:
Certis wrote:

Sending to sports.

Hooray! Sports threads in Everything Else drive me up the wall!

Hey, in my defense the forum is titled "Sports Games and Leagues."

And since this was just a general RL issue, I didn't know any better. So, I would like to claim the ancient rite of FNG.

Listened to some interesting analysis of the Heat's potential on the Van Pelt show while out to lunch.

Basically former NBA guy said that the Heat will be fine with scrubs, because the big three will demand so much double teaming. He also said that about 20% of current NBA roster is made up of league minimum guys, which includes a lot of quality players who can shine if all they need to do is spot up and shoot 3s or stand by the basket to dunk.

Finally, he said that the Heat will have the pick of the litter from the league minimum, as they will all want to come to Miami.

At a minimum, I think the Heat will win the East this season.

Badferret wrote:

Listened to some interesting analysis of the Heat's potential on the Van Pelt show while out to lunch.

Basically former NBA guy said that the Heat will be fine with scrubs, because the big three will demand so much double teaming. He also said that about 20% of current NBA roster is made up of league minimum guys, which includes a lot of quality players who can shine if all they need to do is spot up and shoot 3s or stand by the basket to dunk.

Finally, he said that the Heat will have the pick of the litter from the league minimum, as they will all want to come to Miami.

At a minimum, I think the Heat will win the East this season.

I agree. I think they'll probably have home court through the playoffs. I see them getting the best regular season record.

I just don't see them succeeding when you need more than 3 people to do well in tight games. /shrug we'll see. My opinion might be skewed by sour grapes. =)

More stuff on Gilbert flying off the handle:

not only did LeBron not let the Cavaliers know ahead of time that he was leaving, but he wouldn’t return emails or text messages from Gilbert since the playoffs ended. In addition, Gilbert tried no fewer than 4 times yesterday to have a chance to speak to LeBron for just five minutes and was rejected. Does that excuse Gilbert’s comments about LeBron? Well, no. But it certainly makes us understand why he was as fired up as he was.
oilypenguin wrote:

Hey, in my defense the forum is titled "Sports Games and Leagues."

This is true. Unfortunately, every attempt I've made to have it retitled *Legion*'s Emporium of Sports has gone ignored.

*Legion* wrote:
oilypenguin wrote:

Hey, in my defense the forum is titled "Sports Games and Leagues."

This is true. Unfortunately, every attempt I've made to have it retitled *Legion*'s Emporium of Sports has gone ignored.

I hereby declare my support for this idea so long as it requires me to do nothing besides make this single post.

oilypenguin wrote:
*Legion* wrote:
Certis wrote:

Sending to sports.

Hooray! Sports threads in Everything Else drive me up the wall!

Hey, in my defense the forum is titled "Sports Games and Leagues."

And since this was just a general RL issue, I didn't know any better. So, I would like to claim the ancient rite of FNG.

As long as you're cool with the ancient rites we put the FNG through in Sports Games and Leagues. It doesn't hurt, too much.

Stele wrote:

Don't forget "Big Shot Rob" Horry. Best role player of the last two decades, if not all time. Rockets, Spurs, Lakers. Huge part of all 7 title teams he was on. Seven

Lifelong Rockets fan. Love me some Robert Horry.

In more on topic news (and this is getting delightfully ridiculous now), Dan Gilbert also owns Fathead. There's a sale today.

A special Penguin No-Prize for the person who can first tell me the significance of the price. It is specific and funny (in a ridiculous way).

Wait, he's not coming to NJ? Bummer.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

Another good column from Joe Posnanski (who's always cranky, so I like reading him).

Here's an even more fun column from Jason Whitlock.

I miss the days of Whitlock and Posnanski manning the sports columns of the KC Star. It was a treat to have their take on KC sports everyday. Now they have moved on and rarely write for the Star.

Rather than highlight something from the story. Here is the photo running with it. Good stuff.

IMAGE(http://static.foxsports.com/content/fscom/img/2010/07/09/070910-Clown-Prince-SW-PI_20100709110207_660_320.JPG)