American Futbol's Future

Cobble wrote:

Noone is mentioning the simple fact that soccer is a slow sport and will never succeed with americas high speed market. You have on the norm 2 full hours of not much happening with a flash or two of excitement. I will admit that if you know enough about the sport to recognize tactics and game flow and ebb it becomes loads more interesting but most americans would never get that far into it.

With all do respect, this a horrible opinion. You marginal the entire sport of soccer as two hours with not much happening. Have you even a full game at the WC level? Id argue that quite a few saves and near misses are often more exciting than the actual goals scored. There's a lot happening and the game is at a much more fluid pace than america sports with constant breaks and commercials.

Tanglebones wrote:

I'm not saying soccer has arrived, but the numbers for this World Cup are dwarfing the previous one. Here's some numbers:
http://blogcritics.org/sports/articl...

Um, that's a 2006 article. Got anything from 2010? :p

At the youth level, the best athletes in US communities are pushed into baseball, basketball and football. Until that changes, I don't see how soccer will ever gain a serious foothold. Baseball has the Little Leage World Series, basketball has AAU and the increasing exposure/sponsorship for the tournaments and football has the Pop Warner system thats been around for years. What does soccer have that can compete with any of those?

Here's another observation. I watched almost all of the weekend games with my brothers and a few friends...all of us athletes that played a sport at the D1 level EXCEPT soccer. Baseball, football, lacrosse, golf, basketball and track but no soccer players. Anyway, the point is we don't have much exposure to the nuances of the sport. So, every time a world cup player would roll around with an "injury" in the hopes of drawing a foul we'd all start trash talking and yelling swear words at the tv. I guess what I'm trying to say is that soccer is still thought of as the "sissy" sport. I don't feel that way but I think a lot of casual fans in the US do.

Stele wrote:
Tanglebones wrote:

I'm not saying soccer has arrived, but the numbers for this World Cup are dwarfing the previous one. Here's some numbers:
http://blogcritics.org/sports/articl...

Um, that's a 2006 article. Got anything from 2010? :p

Bah, silly corrections

Try this one:
http://www.epltalk.com/world-cup-tv-...

heavyfeul wrote:
Tanglebones wrote:

I'm not saying soccer has arrived, but the numbers for this World Cup are dwarfing the previous one. Here's some numbers:
http://blogcritics.org/sports/articl...

I think Americans get excited about the World Cup and have fun with it, but it will be an every four years type of phenomenon. Sort of like how many people watch the Superbowl or the Stanley Cup Playoff compared to the number that actually watch Football or Hockey every week. It is a big Worldwide media event and competition, but it will never be able to garner enough support to sustain a profitable pro league in the US.

The only thing I can see changing things is a major demographic shift. In 100 years when the US has a lot more people whose families came from other countries where Soccer is huge, like Mexico/Latin America, then Soccer will definitely have a chance. But it has to become a tradition in this country before people really embrace and support it.

They try every four years to ride the World Cup wave and it never lasts. Even huge stars/soccer ambassadors like Beckham and Mia Hamm are not enough to get people in the stands and in front of the TV.

I'd say it's much more like the Olympics. Same four-year span, same periodical "we suddenly care about a sport because it has our country's name attached to it". I mean, I couldn't care less about the Nordic Combined event. Ski jumping and cross country, woo hoo and all, big deal. You know what? When the Winter Olympics were on, I watched the big final race and cheered for the U.S. to win a medal because . . . well, no good reason, it's sports and they had "USA" on the jersey, so I rooted for them. You know what? In another 3 1/2 years, I'll probably root for the guys wearing "USA" on the jersey in the Nordic Combined, and then stop caring. Just like with soccer.

The question US soccer should be asking is what is their ultimate goal for the future: to grow the sport into something that can compete with basketball and baseball (the NFL's too big of a juggernaut for any other sport to catch up with) or to develop and field a team that is capable of effectively competing for the World Cup? It's possible to do the latter without the former; many countries field good basketball teams for the Olympics even though basketball probably isn't their primary sport.

Rat Boy wrote:

The question US soccer should be asking is what is their ultimate goal for the future: to grow the sport into something that can compete with basketball and baseball (the NFL's too big of a juggernaut for any other sport to catch up with) or to develop and field a team that is capable of effectively competing for the World Cup?

I think they competed very well! How can the world expect a North American backwater like the US to beat a world power like Ghana. Wikipedia says:

"According to the 2009 Failed States Index, Ghana is ranked the 53rd least failed state in the world and the second least failed state in Africa after Mauritius. Ghana ranked 124th out of 177 countries on the index."

I bet next year Ghana will get that top spot of "least failed state" in Africa. They are a force to be reckoned with.

Just out of curiosity, why is the thread name "American Futbol" and not "American Football" or the normal (around there) "Soccer"? Is it a central/south american thing?

93_confirmed wrote:
Cobble wrote:

Noone is mentioning the simple fact that soccer is a slow sport and will never succeed with americas high speed market. You have on the norm 2 full hours of not much happening with a flash or two of excitement. I will admit that if you know enough about the sport to recognize tactics and game flow and ebb it becomes loads more interesting but most americans would never get that far into it.

With all do respect, this a horrible opinion. You marginal the entire sport of soccer as two hours with not much happening. Have you even a full game at the WC level? Id argue that quite a few saves and near misses are often more exciting than the actual goals scored. There's a lot happening and the game is at a much more fluid pace than america sports with constant breaks and commercials.

I never called it bad, I only called it slow...which it is compared to popular sports today in the US. I do agree with the comparison to baseball though. Baseball, by normal US comparision, shouldn't really be that popular. It is because of its history as a US national pastime. A history that soccer does not have in the US. I do not think soccer stands a chance of getting more popular either for the same reason that baseball's popularity is but a fraction of what it once was. Its just not fast enough for the US audience.

93_confirmed wrote:

You marginal the entire sport of soccer as two hours with not much happening.

No, I said it gets more exciting the more you understand it and that the issue lies more with americans giving it enough of a chance to get to that level of understanding.

Don't get so defensive. I am not slagging soccer. I like it quite a bit. Just expressing my opinion of why it wont work in the US market.

slazev wrote:

Just out of curiosity, why is the thread name "American Futbol" and not "American Football" or the normal (around there) "Soccer"? Is it a central/south american thing?

Every time I have ever seen it referenced in the US as something other than soccer it was spelled Futbol. Though to be honest i never paid that much attention.

Chuck Klosterman has a fabulous essay about youth soccer and other matters in his book Sex, Drugs and Cocoapuffs.

Google books lets you read it:

http://books.google.com/books?id=8bv...

slazev wrote:

Just out of curiosity, why is the thread name "American Futbol" and not "American Football" or the normal (around there) "Soccer"? Is it a central/south american thing?

Futbol is the Hispanic American spelling of European Football or soccer here in the states, so I used that as a play on the other American Football, which is the game with helmets.

Rat Boy wrote:

The question US soccer should be asking is what is their ultimate goal for the future: to grow the sport into something that can compete with basketball and baseball (the NFL's too big of a juggernaut for any other sport to catch up with) or to develop and field a team that is capable of effectively competing for the World Cup? It's possible to do the latter without the former; many countries field good basketball teams for the Olympics even though basketball probably isn't their primary sport.

The MLS and Sunil Gulati aren't idiots, and they seem to understand that right now, it's the latter. We as a nation are obsessed with our sports, ones that we can lay claim to inventing and popularizing. I think that eventually, soccer will "make it" here, it's just a matter of what your definition of "making it" is.

Prederick wrote:
Rat Boy wrote:

The question US soccer should be asking is what is their ultimate goal for the future: to grow the sport into something that can compete with basketball and baseball (the NFL's too big of a juggernaut for any other sport to catch up with) or to develop and field a team that is capable of effectively competing for the World Cup? It's possible to do the latter without the former; many countries field good basketball teams for the Olympics even though basketball probably isn't their primary sport.

The MLS and Sunil Gulati aren't idiots, and they seem to understand that right now, it's the latter. We as a nation are obsessed with our sports, ones that we can lay claim to inventing and popularizing. I think that eventually, soccer will "make it" here, it's just a matter of what your definition of "making it" is.

Success breeds popularity. If your team starts competing regularly at the highest level, climbs the rankings and acquits itself convincingly at the World Cup, which it did this year, then the popularity of the sport will grow.

Add in some fairly consistent television coverage and the sport will become more popular. Will it go toe to toe with grid-iron? Maybe not, but with the US' relative prosperity to most of the world, even your fifth most popular sport can become a real career path.

psu_13 wrote:

Chuck Klosterman has a fabulous essay about youth soccer and other matters in his book Sex, Drugs and Cocoapuffs.

Google books lets you read it:

http://books.google.com/books?id=8bv...

I both love and hate Klosterman. Some stuff, like this essay, he completely pulls out his ass.

He says soccer caters to the "outcast culture" and goes on to say that soccer unconsciously rewards the "outcast" and that for 60% of adolescents, sports are humiliation waiting to happen which is why soccer is the #1 sport among adolescents; because it caters to the outcast.

Ummm, pardon me but if 60% constitutes a majority of anything and he is saying that 60% of adolescents are outcasts, that's a contradiction. The majority of any group of people do not equate to outcasts; that would be the minority. In actuality, it's the few who excel at sports who are the minority. We just don't call them outcasts because society dictates that these people be lauded for their talents and abilities. The 60% Klosterman is referring to are not outcasts, they're ordinary everyday joe-schmoe kids. Which sounds about right when looking at the population of this country in general.

Reminds me of punkers who claim to be "counterculture" while all wearing the same clothing purchased from the same retail outlet.

I think soccer has a chance to gain a larger following in the States if they can just get a couple of "characters" for the audience to root for. I'm not saying we turn the MLS into a paparazzi circus or tabloid fodder, like the European clubs. But knowing a little about the people on the field makes you care about whether they win or lose, and, thus, you're more likely to follow the sport loyally.

The NBA has/had personalities like Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant; and Nascar has Danica Patrick and Dale Earnhardt; and the NFL -- well, practically everyone in the NFL is a household name. We just need a few of those for MLS. I mean, I like watching soccer, but up until the World Cup, the only U.S. (male) player I could name was Pele, and he hasn't played in decades.

Landon Donovan's a good start; he's good at what he does, performs well under pressure, and generally seems like a stand-up guy -- and even when it turned out he has a secret love child, it only made him more interesting. Also, he's nice to look at. Very nice. So if we can just clone a couple dozen of him, I think MLS played entirely Cylon Donovans has a good shot.

Bah, that's not what football is all about.

slazev wrote:

Bah, that's not what football is all about. :(

It is these days, just look at the cults around the stars.

slazev wrote:

Bah, that's not what football is all about. :(

Well, it's not what the game is about. But sports are about much, much more than just the mechanics on the field. They're about the culture, the community, the drama -- and to have that, you need to give the audience personalities to root for.

Take (American) football. The Superbowl itself is just a bunch of downs and tackles and tactics. But then you throw in the Saints, a team whose home town was destroyed just five years ago. You've got Drew Brees, devastatingly handsome, a true Southern gentleman and all around stand-up guy.. You've got Reggie Bush, who was sleeping with a Kardashian sister. You've got Sean Payton, the coach who turned the second-worst team in the league into a Super Bowl worthy fighting force.... And then, on the other side, you've got the Colts, the Goliaths of the NFL, with quarterback Peyton Manning -- who's also from New Orleans, who probably grew up watching and rooting for the Saints....

Well, now you've given all those downs and tackles a narrative. You give it meaning. And that's why a lot of people watch and love sports. MLS could take a lesson or two from that playbook, I think, by courting media attention not just for the games, but for the players themselves. Like I said before, I'm not in favor of turning Donovan into a paparazzi spectacle. But encouraging the guy's public persona can't hurt.

Well, that must be something specific to that region. In Europe we have that paparazzi stuff, but we really just care about the team and the sport itself.
Take the biggest star from Portugal, Ronaldo. You would think he would be a messiah to us portuguese. Nope, it's just to some girls. These are the only ones who care about his personal life. We did have some players to which we would put our utmost trust (Figo, Rui Costa and the Pelé-rival Eusébio), but it wasn't because of their personal life or whatever, it was just because they were excellent in the game and could push the team forward.

slazev wrote:

Well, that must be something specific to that region. In Europe we have that paparazzi stuff, but we really just care about the team and the sport itself.

Judging by the overwhelming tabloid presence of Becks and Posh (and WAGs in general), as well as all the soccer-centric TV shows like "Footballers Wives", "WAGs Boutiques" and "Football's Next Star", I'd say you're underestimating the European public's obsession over the personalities behind the sport.

Anyway, like I said twice before: I'm not saying we should turn MLS players' lives into Lindsay Lohan-esque paparazzi fodder. But I do think MLS could stand to benefit from making their players' personalities a little more public. Give audiences a story to care about, instead of just a bunch of dudes kicking a ball around in the grass.

KaterinLHC wrote:
slazev wrote:

Well, that must be something specific to that region. In Europe we have that paparazzi stuff, but we really just care about the team and the sport itself.

Judging by the overwhelming tabloid presence of Becks and Posh (and WAGs in general), as well as all the soccer-centric TV shows like "Footballers Wives", "WAGs Boutiques" and "Football's Next Star", I'd say you're underestimating the public's obsession over the personalities behind the sport.

Anyway, like I said twice before: I'm not saying we should turn MLS players' lives into Lindsay Lohan-esque paparazzi fodder. But I do think MLS could stand to benefit from making their players' personalities a little more public. Give audiences a story to care about, instead of just a bunch of dudes kicking a ball around in the grass.

I think that's more of an effect than a cause, though. Landon Donovan could have all the weirdest tabloid stuff in his life happen at once, and noone would care, if there wasn't a media structure in place for soccer already. Once people begin to watch, then the personalities can emerge.

KaterinLHC wrote:
slazev wrote:

Well, that must be something specific to that region. In Europe we have that paparazzi stuff, but we really just care about the team and the sport itself.

Judging by the overwhelming tabloid presence of Becks and Posh (and WAGs in general), as well as all the soccer-centric TV shows like "Footballers Wives", "WAGs Boutiques" and "Football's Next Star", I'd say you're underestimating the European public's obsession over the personalities behind the sport.

Anyway, like I said twice before: I'm not saying we should turn MLS players' lives into Lindsay Lohan-esque paparazzi fodder. But I do think MLS could stand to benefit from making their players' personalities a little more public. Give audiences a story to care about, instead of just a bunch of dudes kicking a ball around in the grass.

They're both on the USA. Generally, we really don't care about their backstory. Well, not true, there's one thing that many people seem to care about. Nationality. Like having, for example, brazillians in the Portugal team.

Great article by Bill Simmon about the World Cup in general and America's future with the sport.

Tanglebones wrote:

Actually Bill Simmons, not the Hyperion guy - but otherwise, yeah, damn good article!

Fixed. I blame that on just starting Dan Simmon's, The Terror.

Tanglebones wrote:
Badferret wrote:

Great article by Dan Simmon about the World Cup in general and America's future with the sport.

Actually Bill Simmons, not the Hyperion guy - but otherwise, yeah, damn good article!

No announcers breathlessly overhyping everything or saying crazy things to get noticed

This guy hates Dick Vitale too!

More funny stuff:

Keeping USA, Spain, Germany, England, Italy and France around as long as possible makes me think about the Boston Tea Party, the War of 1812, Neville Chamberlain, Napoleon getting overthrown, multiple wars, Thomas Jefferson throwing his genitals around France like a boomerang, Benedict Arnold switching sides, all the times France surrendered or withdrew, and basically everything good and bad that's ever happened between those six countries. It's like having four solid weeks of AP History flashbacks.

And more:

When that Ghana player had to be carried off on a stretcher at the tail end of the America game, then hopped off like nothing ever happened as soon as the stretcher was out of bounds, I thought that was appalling. Actually, it made me want to go to war with Ghana. I wanted to invade them. I'm not even kidding. That's another great thing about the World Cup: Name another sport in which you genuinely want to invade other countries when you lose.
Badferret wrote:

Great article by Dan Simmon about the World Cup in general and America's future with the sport.

Edited to remove annoying know-it-all correction: yeah, damn good article!

I'd be interested in seeing the US ratings for the final, plus ratings for all the games after the US bowed out in the knock-out round. But, going forward after the World Cup, I see soccer fading back into the background. It's like the off season in other sports; most people don't follow the NBA summer league, obsessively watch Spring Training, or DVR every NFL preseason game (except *Legion*, of course).

In the words of Bill Simmons, "120 mins of a 0-0 World Cup Final will be the final piece of the puzzle for America embracing soccer." No, no sarcasm at all.

Every few years soccer's about to take off, and it never does. Nothing's changed. In the run-up to the final, there was probably 20 times the media coverage of LeBron than there was for the World Cup. We don't care, we're not going to.

On another note, what's up with the wussy little trophy they hand out for winning? It's the freaking WORLD CUP. You should need construction equipment to haul the thing home. My kids have gotten participation trophies from second-grade soccer that aren't that much smaller than the trophy for the biggest sporting event in the world.

IMAGE(http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/0711/soc_a_wartopv4_614.jpg)

This is a trophy:

IMAGE(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/4350/448pxsuperbowl29vincelo.jpg)

This is a cup:

IMAGE(http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/4742/235pxstanleycupnobackgr.png)

Whatever that is...is tiny.

Yeah if the rest of the world won't Americanize the game, at least they could Americanize the trophy. :p