Wannabe Writers Writing: Revisions, Feedback, Evil Chickens

Clemenstation wrote:
MrDeVil909 wrote:

Hell, 2 years ago I started this as part of a similar initiative on another forum. It's intended as a larger work, I did begin a second chapter set much later, but haven't had the time to do any work on it for ages.

I'm still open for criticism, either here or on the blog.

Okay some notes here too!

I'll start by saying that I like the writing voice, and the flow works well. For some reason I couldn't help but think about the beginning of Secret of Mana while I was reading.

Strangely enough you use the exact opposite approach to quotation marks as dhelor (single quotes for both dialog and emphasis). Can I ask why?

No good reason, tbh. I seldom write dialogue and try avoid quotes, so my habits are probably not ideal. Point noted.

The voice in his dream, a whisper, somehow frantic, calling for help in a language he couldn’t understand, seemed to cast a shadow over the familiar surroundings of the monastery.

Felt like there should be an extra comma in there. Personal preference.

The other crits I got say I tend to go overboard with the commas. I'm not too sure about that beat the extra comma puts in the rhythm.

The mound was so commonplace in the minds of the people that Cayden had barely noticed it in the four years he had been at the monastery.

Capital T.

Urk.

His father had always called him a changeling because of his fairness, so unlike that of the rest of his family. Although they said his grandmother had been in possession of hair like spun gold in her youth.

It's pretty tough to make a sentence that starts with 'Although' work; this one cuts the flow in my opinion.

Noted

She held out her hand to him and gestured. Although his mind was a whirlwind, he returned the smile and without hesitation he took her hand.

For example, I think this 'Although' works much better, although a comma might help too.

Agreed.

Her face was unlined and unmarked, yet there was a gravity in her gaze that seemed to make her older than anyone Cayden knew. Even the old Abbot that had passed the year before seemed carefree compared to this gaze.

I really like this bit, because in describing the woman's age you refer back to the main character's monastery setting by referring to the Abbot -- a gentle reminder to the reader who may still be trying to grab a handhold somewhere. Very subtle.

Thanks.

One last niggling thing: You usually refer to the Abbot with a capital A, but there's an instance in the third paragraph where you use the small a. Most people won't notice. Freaks such as myself will be rather bothered by this lack of consistency.

Ah, fair enough. Simple oversight.

Thanks for the crit clem, that's awesome.

Minase wrote:
One last niggling thing: You usually refer to the Abbot with a capital A, but there's an instance in the third paragraph where you use the small a. Most people won't notice. Freaks such as myself will be rather bothered by this lack of consistency.

It's a tough balance - I try and read a piece without letting grammar or spelling issues (or style choices I really, really hate) color my opinion, but something like this will jump out at me and potentially bias my view of the story as a whole.

I'm the same with certain things. Grammar and spelling are not the be all and end all, but paying attention is respectful to your audience. Even if a specific audience member is being anal. Speaking as someone who can be anal.

NSMike wrote:

I wrote this starting last night and finished it this morning. Open to all critiques and commentary.

Very cool. My one crit is that the tone of the conversation in the beginning is a little off, it feels like exposition and slightly artificial. But very interesting and an nice twist on the end.

I prefer not to have too much explanation regarding things like weapons. I prefer technology to be essentially invisible, too much detail feels like pulpy gun porn.

Dhelor wrote:

Also, here's another piece I've been working on lately. This one actually is intended to be a novel rather than a short story: link

Dhelor, I've always been a sucker for post-apocalyptic fiction! I've read a lot in the genre and your story 'felt right'. Keep writing and I will keep reading!

just poppin' my head in for a friendly little subscription.

Minase wrote:

NSMike: Good stuff, especially for an initial draft! I would like to see the first paragraph revised (I understand that you're trying to subtly foreshadow here, but it's a little drawn out).

I was actually describing a clock I have on the wall in my room. I was using it as a kind of exercise to find some direction for a story about artifice. While it was supposed to be foreshadowing, it seems a bit like a club in its present form. Future revisions may make the observations about the clock far more subtle, and interspersed elsewhere.

I prefer not to have too much explanation regarding things like weapons. I prefer technology to be essentially invisible, too much detail feels like pulpy gun porn.

Like I said, I'm a nerd - I like my sci-fi with an emphasis on the 'sci'. Outrageous (yet logically consistent!) tech is very pleasing to me.

Minase wrote:
I prefer not to have too much explanation regarding things like weapons. I prefer technology to be essentially invisible, too much detail feels like pulpy gun porn.

Like I said, I'm a nerd - I like my sci-fi with an emphasis on the 'sci'. Outrageous (yet logically consistent!) tech is very pleasing to me.

It definitely has its place, but I've read a few pulp novels in my day and they tend to lavish detail on minutiae like weapons and vehicles to hide lack of characterisation and plotting. Well done it is fine, but I find it distracting and it makes me expect the worst from the rest of the work.

But here it's one of those personal things.

New Max Applesauce story here. It's only chapter 1, so you'll just have to suck on that for a while. I welcome public criticism and such, but good luck trying to criticize this ridiculous mess.

Max Applesauce and the Breakfast

EDIT: I should note that there's a tiny bit of NSFW language in there somewhere.

MechaSlinky wrote:

New Max Applesauce story here. It's only chapter 1, so you'll just have to suck on that for a while. I welcome public criticism and such, but good luck trying to criticize this ridiculous mess.

Max Applesauce and the Breakfast

EDIT: I should note that there's a tiny bit of NSFW language in there somewhere.

Reminds me a bit of the postmodernism lit classes I took back in school (huge sweeping tangents, unstable, ranting narrator, referring directly to the reader to hammer home the point that they are reading a story).

You're right though, there's really no way to crit this conventionally.

Things I enjoyed:

-Spelling your handle wrong (MegaSlonky).

-audiblated -> audiblerped

-“I FIGHT FOR JUICE TASTE!!!” bellowed the inexorable Max Applesauce, delivering a swift jump-kick to the general area of the old lady.

-“MY c*ck WOULD DECIMATE YOU!!!” screeched Max Applesauce. “BESIDES, MY HEART BELONGS TO A UNICORN!”

“The real question is let’s go get us some breakfast!” the mysterious cowboy lady said.

-Max never actually gets any breakfast.

I seriously recommend leaving this story as-is and just have things trail off, intentionally and cruelly leaving the reader behind. Kinda fits with the whole abusive tone.

As always, Max Applesauce delivers!

This is not helpful or useful in any way, but I just thought I'd share. I just popped back in to add a(n?) NSFW tag to my link up there and then quickly skimmed through the rest of the page since I don't have the time now to read it all. I'll read it all later, I promise. Anyway, as I was skimming down the page, I totally saw the words "gay porn" in one of NSMike's posts. Upon closer examination, they were nowhere to be found.

I love writing myself and I have an active blog that I am busy retasking from its academic purpose into my own personal obsession. This and this are recent posts I wrote that I wouldn't mind an opinion on both theoretically and editorially.

I am trying to figure out what to do with my recent bit of education that is both interesting and translatable to an income, and I take this blog along for the ride.

MrDeVil909 wrote:
dhelor wrote:

Stylistic stuff

All definitely true, and it is up to the writer's discretion, but if a work is submitted for publication you are going to have to fight with your editor and publisher every step of the way if you use ellipses and quotations in an unconventional way.

THIS. Not to mention the Oxford comma. And whether it's scare quotes or not, the terminal punctuation still goes inside the closing quote mark. One of these days Wordy's gonna come after me with a big axe. I'm trying to change but old habits die hard. Especially when driven home by my old grammar teacher, Miss Wilcox.

Everyone in the thread might want to get their hands on a copy of the APA Style Guide so they at least have something to argue with.

Re: Max Applesauce.

Max Applesauce literally exploded off his horse
Literally, her fists were prunes. It was totally f*cked, man.

As usual, Max delivers and is beyond all criticism.

dhelor: Critique for Legacy of the Keepers. Changes that I've made are in red, omissions have been struck through, and comments have been added in Ariel in blue.

I love writing myself and I have an active blog that I am busy retasking from its academic purpose into my own personal obsession. This and this are recent posts I wrote that I wouldn't mind an opinion on both theoretically and editorially.

Blotto:

You alluded to it earlier, but the biggest problem I have with your writing in the first piece (besides spelling/grammar errors, esp. homonyms) is that it's very academic - lots of passive voice.

However, your second piece is so much better it is almost like it is by a different author. Again, my main criticism is that it's still a bit 'dry' - stuff like

Architecture is not the translation of a paper plan to a building, but rather its the mediation that takes place as that described paper shape takes on the properties and constraint of existence beyond the page and in an inhabitable environment.

is very pretty prose, but it sounds like it's out of a textbook. I would try and relate these things more to personal experiences and provide examples.

Gah, I keep editing this post. A great exercise is to force yourself to follow a magazine's style guide - you'll learn a lot just trying to conform.

I certainly don't want to discourage you - I subscribed to Dwell for many years and love architectural writing. I think you have the background and the raw talent to succeed - I would recommend reading more trade magazines (if you don't already) and trying a few 'pastiche' pieces to get a feel for different styles of trade writing.

MechaSlinky: Critique of Max Applesauce and the Breakfast 1. I've highlighted certain passages in yellow and have included commentary at the bottom in blue.

I have something for you guys to check out. It's my entry for the Wheaton/Scalzi fanfic thing I posted on the first page.

Public/private commentary welcome!

http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0Ab74x-X9_v8fZGNqeDU0Z2pfN2NzN2Zna2Q0&hl=en

I definitely need a better title.

NSMike: Critique for "Goodjer Story"

Revisions in red, comments in blue.

Clemenstation wrote:

I seriously recommend leaving this story as-is and just have things trail off, intentionally and cruelly leaving the reader behind. Kinda fits with the whole abusive tone.

I can't. I already have a vague idea of where this is going, which, for anything Max Applesauce, is like having a detailed plan and a foundation already laid out to build on.

MrDeVil909 wrote:

Spoons!

I'm glad there was enjoyment forced upon everyone who enjoyed.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

MechaSlinky: Critique of Max Applesauce and the Breakfast 1. I've highlighted certain passages in yellow and have included commentary at the bottom in blue.

Awesome. And I totally agree with the second paragraph there. I almost deleted the Mega Man thing halfway through the sentence, but I figured out where it was going just in time and saved the day and everyone was all, "LET'S KILL THEM NEGROES!!!" which was a really confusing thing to hear because that totally wasn't my intention at all and if I knew I was sheparding around a bunch of racist pricks I definitely wouldn't have taken them to get ice cream earlier.

The Gears of War reference was essentially because I couldn't think of anything better, but I think I may have fixed it now. When writing anything Max Applesauce, I only allow myself 30 seconds to think of something before I have to put something down and move on. It's the only way to write Max Applesauce. If it's planned, it's garbage. The unfortunate side-effect is that sometimes some undesirables slip in. It's okay though, as we have ways of dealing with them. It's all for the greater good. (The greater good...)

MechaSlinky wrote:

And I totally agree with the second paragraph there.

Christ, could I have used the word "specific" more often?

I'm definitely looking forward to more Max Applesauce. If you really only do give yourself thirty seconds to write something (and I don't really doubt it), that's a fascinating writing process and not something I could ever swing, myself.

The greater good...

Tanglebones wrote:

Relevant grammar stuff:
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/semicolon

From the same site:
How To Use An Apostrophe

I also found this to be good food for thought: Ten rules for writing fiction. Various authors give their opinions on writing and what works best - it is worth a read, but take it with a grain of salt. Good luck to all the writers out there! I'm looking forward to reading the bits linked here.

Subscribing. I'm determined to be the world's coolest uncle to my as-yet-unborn niece and part of that will involve making up outrageous lies about my travels in the Navy. If I have my way, she'll grow up firmly convinced that there are magical islands, mighty sea dragons, and entire cities beneath the waves. It occurred to me this evening that I should start making up some stuff now, and perhaps put it into a small book for her.

I'm two feet into this thread. I'm currently in the process of ressurecting my Lion & Spear novel about two sisters who travel through dreams hunting nightmares. It's been dormant for near 4 years and I have 300 pages of kindling so its good that there is a place of willing sucke-uh, I mean critics to read it and give it the proper bashing it so deservers.

As a serious noob aside - How does one subscribe to a forum thread? I know, I know, I suck! =0(

ClockworkHouse wrote:
MechaSlinky wrote:

And I totally agree with the second paragraph there.

Christ, could I have used the word "specific" more often?

I'm definitely looking forward to more Max Applesauce. If you really only do give yourself thirty seconds to write something (and I don't really doubt it), that's a fascinating writing process and not something I could ever swing, myself.

Only for Max Applesauce and anything in the same style as Max Applesauce. It's just the only way it works. As soon as I stop typing, I've got 30 seconds to continue typing. If I hit that 30 seconds, I type the first thing that pops into my head no matter what and move on. Otherwise, I over-think things and it ends up feeling stale and forced. Of course, I'm always allowed to go back and change stuff should I think of something better, but only once I hit the end of the story or chapter or whatever. Even then, I don't allow myself to sit there thinking about it. It either has to pop into my head while I'm doing something else or it has to happen within 30 seconds of looking at the problem area again. It doesn't produce the best writing, but it's a great mental exercise.

I wrote this first chapter as soon as I saw this thread and decided I should write a new Max Applesauce story. Opened up the Google Doc thing and just started writing. No idea where I was going with it, but about halfway through I figured out how I want the entire thing to end and I have a basic idea of how I'm going to get there.

I feel bad that I don't have much more to say about anyone else's stories. I've really liked what I've seen so far, especially NSMike's story, but I'm not a very good critic and what few critical thoughts I may have had have already been said much better than I could have said them.

Benticore wrote:

As a serious noob aside - How does one subscribe to a forum thread? I know, I know, I suck! =0(

You post in it. All we mean by subscribe is to make sure it pops up in our particular "Recent Posts" queue (yours being http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/tracke...).

ClockworkHouse wrote:

Right now, your story reads to a certain extent like a screenplay; there's dialogue and stage direction, but there are none of the glimpses into characters' inner lives that are the hallmarks of prose.

Prose is something that I have difficulty fine-tuning, and when I write, I visualize it all in my head, as though watching a film, so the characters' emotions and inner thoughts don't necessarily float to the surface in my creative processes. It's a weakness in my writing. Although I could probably do some decent screenplays.

I like your critique and commentary. It gives me some ideas and doesn't axe anything I was particularly attached to. Plus you complimented me.

EDIT: Oh, and I swear, you were not the inspiration for the name. Adam happens to be my father's first name and my middle name.

Here's what the actual clock looks like which the description was based on:

IMAGE(http://imgur.com/vcGuM.jpg)

A thread on writing excites my rotted bones so much I might just have to participate.

momgamer wrote:

Everyone in the thread might want to get their hands on a copy of the APA Style Guide so they at least have something to argue with.

Actually APA is more for the social sciences. Fiction writers use the Chicago Manual of Style.

Also, a couple suggestions:

1. Spell check your material before submitting. You don't have to follow all of the spell checker suggestions of course, but it will catch things like "it's/its" and other simple mistakes we shouldn't need to be discussing here.

2. If you haven't, get a copy of The Art of Fiction by John Gardner, and read it a few times. I've read through a couple pieces submitted so far and I feel some of us would benefit from Gardner's insight. I suggest reading his comments about attempting to use elevated prose, which seems to be a common trend (and problem) for would-be fantasy writers, as well as the benefits of telling the story with an omniscient narrator.

3. It may get hard to track which stories are being discussed and some may get skipped over if this thread becomes more popular--I'm wondering if we might want to have a shared Goodjer Google writing folder so everyone's writing is in one place?

edit 4. Oh and read your stuff out loud if you're not already--it helps a lot in pointing out phrasing that has been awkwardly done, incorrigible word selection, and unconscious word repetition repetition.

From that 10 rules article:

3 Never use a verb other than "said" to carry dialogue. The line of dialogue belongs to the character; the verb is the writer sticking his nose in. But "said" is far less intrusive than "grumbled", "gasped", "cautioned", "lied". I once noticed Mary McCarthy ending a line of dialogue with "she asseverated" and had to stop reading and go to the dictionary.

While I understand the bolded, I feel a different verb is fine so long as it doesn't assign too heavy a connotation. That rule sounds more at home in journalism than fiction. Or is it just me?