Big 12 may be raided by Big 10 and Pac 10 expansion plans

Pages

I don't know if this will come to anything, it appears as if Nebraska and Missouri might bolt to the Big 10 and if that happens then Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Colorado and Oklahoma State would be invited to join the Pac 10. The new Pac-10 would be split SEC-like into the old Pac-8 and the Arizona schools plus the Big 12 additions would form a new division.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/...
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/footbal...

The Kansas schools, Baylor, and Iowa State would be left out in the cold by this new plan, although the some in the Texas legislature are working (I'm not sure how) to include Baylor, rather than Colorado in Pac-10 expansion.

In any case, it appears that there is great potential to shake things up in college sports.

Yeah fascinating stuff. The big 6 BCS conferences might be down to the big 4 mega 16 team leagues in a year or so. If the Big/Pac 10 do expand to 16 teams, the SEC would likely then raid the ACC for VA Tech and the Florida schools plus somebody else and then the remaining ACC schools would merge with the remaining Big East (Rutgers, Syracuse and other big east school are being sniffed at by the Big 10).

Crazy times.

The downside is that if the Pac-10 expands into the Pac-16, then they'll have even more leverage to prevent a playoff system being implemented in college football. The Pac-10's been the biggest obstacle to that end and the biggest booster of the BCS system.

Edit: Allow me to Tannhauser *Legion*: that's just means more teams who don't want to play Fresno State.

All this chaos has put the Mountain West Conference's plans to add Boise on hold. I imagine they're going to see what teams they can pillage from the scraps. And what gets pillaged from them.

Fresno needs to do something. They sat pat in the WAC while most of that conference's power split off into the MWC. They can't keep riding the sinking WAC ship while everyone else builds even bigger citadels. They're a regular dweller of the lower-end of the top 25 and they have some of the best TV ratings outside of the super-massive programs. But they seem bent on devolving back to the old days where they played in a conference with UC Irvine and Cal Poly SLO.

All of those good non-BCS schools need to consolidate, or be left behind forever.

What? I thought I had your lament about Fresno State vs. the Pac-10 pegged! I don't know who you are anymore.

It looks like Notre Dame may be able to diffuse the chaos. If they agree to join the Big 10, then Nebraska and Missouri will not be invited and the Big 12 may stand pat.

Orangebloods, a UT blog on the Rivals network, has an update on super-conference expansion.

I'm a Pac-10 guy, and I like the idea of adding the Texas schools to a separate division, but on the whole I think consolidation is bad for everybody. Yahoo's Dan Wetzel has an opinion piece that pins blame on the Big 12's support of the BCS over a playoff compromise.

As a life-long Big 12 fan - I hope it stays as is.

Rat Boy wrote:

What? I thought I had your lament about Fresno State vs. the Pac-10 pegged! I don't know who you are anymore.

I guess I'm in a pragmatic mood today. My distaste for the Pac-10 has not faded any, but my concern for Fresno takes top billing.

You know, Fresno has gone to a bowl game every year from 1999 to now, with the lone exception of 2006. 10 bowl games in 11 years. But no, Pac-10, Baylor and their 15 years (and counting!) without a bowl game, yeah, that's who you should take for that last spot.

*Legion* wrote:
Rat Boy wrote:

What? I thought I had your lament about Fresno State vs. the Pac-10 pegged! I don't know who you are anymore.

I guess I'm in a pragmatic mood today. My distaste for the Pac-10 has not faded any, but my concern for Fresno takes top billing.

You know, Fresno has gone to a bowl game every year from 1999 to now, with the lone exception of 2006. 10 bowl games in 11 years. But no, Pac-10, Baylor and their 15 years (and counting!) without a bowl game, yeah, that's who you should take for that last spot.

Baylor gets grandfathered in because they want the other Texas schools. Its a big point of contention regarding absorbing the Big 12 south.

Wouldn't Fresno State need to meet academic requirements that the PAC-10 has? Last time I heard rumblings of a Pac-12, Fresno and Boise, some sports writer talked about academic requirements being a hurdle.

Oh and what happens with Oklahoma? I mean they're a powerhouse and I don't think I've ever read their names in any conference shifting.

Elliottx wrote:

Wouldn't Fresno State need to meet academic requirements that the PAC-10 has? Last time I heard rumblings of a Pac-12, Fresno and Boise, some sports writer talked about academic requirements being a hurdle.

Oh and what happens with Oklahoma? I mean they're a powerhouse and I don't think I've ever read their names in any conference shifting.

Most of the Pac-10 into 16 shifts just take the whole big 12 south and add it to the pac 10. Not sure about the Big ten shifts, but I have a hard time buying Texas going there.

Elliottx wrote:

Wouldn't Fresno State need to meet academic requirements that the PAC-10 has?

Probably. Fresno is no longer the academic pit they were when they used to admit everyone else's academic nonqualifiers, though. They've done a good bit of cleanup.

I don't know about the Pac-10's broader academic requirements, like university research output, though.

Pac-10 bitterness aside, though, Fresno's gotta do something. Very tired of the inaction.

Oso wrote:

Yahoo's Dan Wetzel has an opinion piece that pins blame on the Big 12's support of the BCS over a playoff compromise.

That makes so much sense that either it's 100% true or a 100% false.

The first domino may have fallen. Reports say Nebraska is expected announce on Friday that it's leaving the Big 12 for the Big 10. If that's true, then everything's going to start falling into place as rumored fairly quickly.

Rat Boy wrote:

The first domino may have fallen. Reports say Nebraska is expected announce on Friday that it's leaving the Big 12 for the Big 10. If that's true, then everything's going to start falling into place as rumored fairly quickly.

Yeah, but that was written by Texas fans. I would prefer loosing NE and adding BYU or Air Force.

boogle wrote:
Rat Boy wrote:

The first domino may have fallen. Reports say Nebraska is expected announce on Friday that it's leaving the Big 12 for the Big 10. If that's true, then everything's going to start falling into place as rumored fairly quickly.

Yeah, but that was written by Texas fans. I would prefer loosing NE and adding BYU or Air Force.

ESPN is reporting it but they are citing the orangebloods blog so your point still stands. The big ten wants no part of Missouri or, for that matter, any other big 12 school that isn't Texas. So, I could see the big 12 just try to replace Nebraska. But, ESPN is also reporting that Colorado has been offered an invitation to the pac 10 and last I heard they were pretty eager to leave.

As for the big ten, assuming the Nebraska thing is true, I wouldn't be surprised if they were done expanding unless Notre Dame finally decides that they need a conference when all hell breaks loose.

iaintgotnopants wrote:

As for the big ten, assuming the Nebraska thing is true, I wouldn't be surprised if they were done expanding unless Notre Dame finally decides that they need a conference when all hell breaks loose.

No way they stop at Nebraska. The Big 10 is in it to expand the reach and revenue of the Big 10 Network, and frankly adding just Nebraska doesn't really help them reach that goal. If Nebraska goes, Missouri will to, which brings a much larger TV market putting them at 13 teams. Then they turn east and add the NY and mid Atlantic markets by expanding to 16 with Big East teams and or ND.

In related news, USC could be looking at a two year post season ban.

Does this mean the Big "10" has an East and West Division? If the East has Penn State, Ohio State, Indiana, Purdue, Michigan, and Michigan State, then the West has Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Illinois, and Nebraska . . . yeah, I'd say those aren't exactly balanced. I mean, Nebraska isn't NEBRASKA anymore, but it seems the balance of athletic power in the Big 10 leans eastwards.

I did read some column in the last week lamenting the probably death of the Big 12 and was really amused when the columnist said that legislators in Iowa would be up in arms if Iowa State got pushed to a conference that didn't have an automatic BCS berth. Because, you know, Iowa State is such a traditional power.

Badferret wrote:

the SEC would likely then raid the ACC for VA Tech and the Florida schools ...

If the ACC gets poached by the SEC, it'll lose Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech and Clemson. With the exception of Miami, these three schools are big state universities like the rest of the SEC, and they all have above average football programs. Adding Miami would give Vandy someone to beat up on every other year or so. It also would give the SEC a stranglehold on recruiting in Florida.

Virginia Tech isn't going anywhere. The Hokies wanted nothing more in life than to join the ACC, and they finally got their wish. If the ACC loses its only half-decent football programs other than the Hokies, Va Tech will retire the trophy.

The question, of course (because I'm in N.C., and it's the only question that matters :P), is whither the ACC?

West Virginia and Louisville might be targets. Maybe even East Carolina, which would be a Sign of the Apocalypse. Or they'll have to move north of Maryland and start picking off Big East schools. UConn? Rutgers? 'Cuse?

The ACC was driving the expansion train a while back. Too bad it's going to come back and bite 'em in the butt.

ESPN is reporting the Colorado is moving to the pac 10

I wonder how what this will mean with all the Baylor business.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

Does this mean the Big "10" has an East and West Division? If the East has Penn State, Ohio State, Indiana, Purdue, Michigan, and Michigan State, then the West has Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Illinois, and Nebraska . . . yeah, I'd say those aren't exactly balanced. I mean, Nebraska isn't NEBRASKA anymore, but it seems the balance of athletic power in the Big 10 leans eastwards.

I don't think it is that unbalanced actually. Sure, Ohio State and Penn State are definitely the class of the big ten (talking specifically football here). But, Purdue and Michigan State are generally mediocre, Indiana is terrible, and Michigan will be bad as long as they stick with Rodriguez. The West Divison isn't terrible as people seem to think. As much as it pains me to say Wisconsin and Iowa are probably the second tier after OSU and PSU. Nebraska has been on the rise since dumping Callahan. Northwestern has shown improvement and Illinois has a ton of talent (but Zook can't coach). Minnesota could be good if they didn't have a special ed student at qb.

With basketball, it is much more balanced particularly if Izzo goes to the Cavs.

Badferret wrote:

No way they stop at Nebraska. The Big 10 is in it to expand the reach and revenue of the Big 10 Network, and frankly adding just Nebraska doesn't really help them reach that goal. If Nebraska goes, Missouri will to, which brings a much larger TV market putting them at 13 teams. Then they turn east and add the NY and mid Atlantic markets by expanding to 16 with Big East teams and or ND.

The big ten has made it pretty clear that the only people interested in Missouri to the big ten are Missouri. I think the only way they expand further is with a big east group of Syracuse, Rutgers, Pitt and Notre Dame (the last one there being the key).

edit: Just to point out, I am one of the few big ten fans that doesn't want Notre Dame in the conference mainly because it gives them more reason to form a hockey conference which would completely destroy college hockey.

I'm another Big Ten fan (Iowa, specifically), and I don't want ND in the conference. Why? You get yourself a mediocre college program that insists on pretending it's still elite. I'm OK with Nebraska; they're a decent athletic program in multiple sports, so they help strengthen the conference somewhat. Notre Dame? They're like Wisconsin, except they've got a giant stick up their butt.

As a Penn State fan, I would just like to see the old PSU / ND rivalry back in action.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

I'm another Big Ten fan (Iowa, specifically), and I don't want ND in the conference. Why? You get yourself a mediocre college program that insists on pretending it's still elite. I'm OK with Nebraska; they're a decent athletic program in multiple sports, so they help strengthen the conference somewhat. Notre Dame? They're like Wisconsin, except they've got a giant stick up their butt.

Yeah with the addition of Nebraska, the big ten now has two self-important fan bases (*cough* *cough* Iowa *cough*). No need for another.

iaintgotnopants wrote:
MilkmanDanimal wrote:

I'm another Big Ten fan (Iowa, specifically), and I don't want ND in the conference. Why? You get yourself a mediocre college program that insists on pretending it's still elite. I'm OK with Nebraska; they're a decent athletic program in multiple sports, so they help strengthen the conference somewhat. Notre Dame? They're like Wisconsin, except they've got a giant stick up their butt.

Yeah with the addition of Nebraska, the big ten now has two self-important fan bases (*cough* *cough* Iowa *cough*). No need for another.

Don't worry, the wheel always comes around eventually. At some point, at least in theory, Minnesota fans will have something to be proud about. Of course, the NCAA will eventually make the school forfeit all those big wins anyways, but hey, a win is a win! For a while, at least.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:
iaintgotnopants wrote:
MilkmanDanimal wrote:

I'm another Big Ten fan (Iowa, specifically), and I don't want ND in the conference. Why? You get yourself a mediocre college program that insists on pretending it's still elite. I'm OK with Nebraska; they're a decent athletic program in multiple sports, so they help strengthen the conference somewhat. Notre Dame? They're like Wisconsin, except they've got a giant stick up their butt.

Yeah with the addition of Nebraska, the big ten now has two self-important fan bases (*cough* *cough* Iowa *cough*). No need for another.

Don't worry, the wheel always comes around eventually. At some point, at least in theory, Minnesota fans will have something to be proud about. Of course, the NCAA will eventually make the school forfeit all those big wins anyways, but hey, a win is a win! For a while, at least.

Oh come on, you're in Eagan. I'm sure you've run into some Gopher hockey fans.

Enix wrote:
Badferret wrote:

the SEC would likely then raid the ACC for VA Tech and the Florida schools ...

If the ACC gets poached by the SEC, it'll lose Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech and Clemson. With the exception of Miami, these three schools are big state universities like the rest of the SEC, and they all have above average football programs. Adding Miami would give Vandy someone to beat up on every other year or so. It also would give the SEC a stranglehold on recruiting in Florida.

Virginia Tech isn't going anywhere. The Hokies wanted nothing more in life than to join the ACC, and they finally got their wish. If the ACC loses its only half-decent football programs other than the Hokies, Va Tech will retire the trophy.

The question, of course (because I'm in N.C., and it's the only question that matters :P), is whither the ACC?

West Virginia and Louisville might be targets. Maybe even East Carolina, which would be a Sign of the Apocalypse. Or they'll have to move north of Maryland and start picking off Big East schools. UConn? Rutgers? 'Cuse?

The ACC was driving the expansion train a while back. Too bad it's going to come back and bite 'em in the butt.

I will have to try and find some of the articles that I have read previously, but the gist is the same whether we are talking Pac10/Big10 or SEC, all of this is about TV packages and the Billions of dollars up for grabs. Clemson and Ga. Tech bring nothing to the SEC's pocket, they are both in TV markets that the SEC already owns. FSU and Miami lock up the rest of Florida's TV market, and Va. Tech gives the SEC access to the Richmond/DC market.

I think Colorado bolting before Texas might put a wrinkle into the Longhorns move to the Pac-10. The SEC would really love the Longhorns above all others and would probably be willing to take the Aggies as well. All this talk of Texas pushing for Baylor in Colorado's stead obviously scared the Buffalos which make me think all of the Pac10 plans are not finalized.

iaintgotnopants wrote:
MilkmanDanimal wrote:
iaintgotnopants wrote:
MilkmanDanimal wrote:

I'm another Big Ten fan (Iowa, specifically), and I don't want ND in the conference. Why? You get yourself a mediocre college program that insists on pretending it's still elite. I'm OK with Nebraska; they're a decent athletic program in multiple sports, so they help strengthen the conference somewhat. Notre Dame? They're like Wisconsin, except they've got a giant stick up their butt.

Yeah with the addition of Nebraska, the big ten now has two self-important fan bases (*cough* *cough* Iowa *cough*). No need for another.

Don't worry, the wheel always comes around eventually. At some point, at least in theory, Minnesota fans will have something to be proud about. Of course, the NCAA will eventually make the school forfeit all those big wins anyways, but hey, a win is a win! For a while, at least.

Oh come on, you're in Eagan. I'm sure you've run into some Gopher hockey fans.

Hey now, I'm mocking a rival sports fan, reality doesn't enter into it. At any rate, I'm not a big hockey guy, but hockey's weird from a collegiate standpoint anyways just because so few teams actually play it. Even in Iowa, you rarely hear about hockey. High school teams don't play it, colleges don't play it, nobody pays attention to it. Go one state north, and it's an obsession. The only two college sports that most people care about are football and basketball anyways and, if you want to make fun of Iowa, make fun of the basketball program. Lord knows I do, I went to Northern Iowa (Ali Faroukmanesh!) and my wife went to Iowa.

Reading today's ESPN articles I cam across this gem from the ND athletic director;

Among the myths growing in the information vacuum is that this is an athletic issue -- all about the TV revenue, right? The reality, Swarbrick said, is that this is being driven much more by the academic side of campus at most schools than by the athletic side. Presidents and chancellors see this as a rare opportunity to change their educational neighborhood and better their universities in the process.

Yeah right.

Tony Barnhart's take.

*Even more;

The SEC has had secret talks with Texas A&M.

Someone should write a John Le Carre style novel about all of this, throw in a dead cheerleader in Waco and get Matt Damon to lead and you would have a blockbuster movie.

Pages