"Hooray! Now We're In Power! .....what do we do now?"

That's pretty much been the mantra of Japan's Democratic Party since they managed to finally unseat the Liberal Democratic Party in 2009. And now, the PM's resigned, over a bit of a kerfluffle involving the U.S., Okinawa, and that damn military base.

The Japanese prime minister, Yukio Hatoyama, is to resign, he said today. He said that ruling party kingpin Ichiro Ozawa would also resign from the party's No 2 post.

Japanese public broadcaster NHK said this morning that Hatoyama had told party executives of his intention to step down, to take responsibility over his broken campaign promise to move a US marine base off the southern island of Okinawa.

The embattled prime minister has faced growing pressure from within his own party to resign ahead of forthcoming elections in July.

His approval ratings have plummeted over the broken campaign promise, reinforcing his public image as an indecisive leader after only eight months in office.

His government came to power amid high hopes last September after his Democratic party (DPJ) soundly defeated the long-ruling conservatives in lower house elections.

But his public image has suffered amid a political funding scandal and perceived indecision, particularly on his reversal on Futenma, the marine airbase. He now says he will go along with the 2006 agreement to move the base to a northern part of the island, infuriating residents who want it off Okinawa entirely.

Okinawa houses more than half the 47,000 US troops in Japan, stationed under a bilateral security alliance.

Hatoyama's three-way coalition was cut to two members over the weekend when a junior partner, the Social Democrats, withdrew after the prime minister expelled its leader Mizuho Fukushima, who rejected the Futenma decision, from the cabinet.

The DPJ and a remaining coalition partner still hold a majority in both houses of the Diet, or parliament – though just barely in the less powerful upper house.

Fukushima's dismissal enhanced her public standing as a politician who stood up for her convictions and reinforced perceptions of Hatoyama as weak.

The largest Japanese newspaper, the Yomiuri, citing its own survey conducted yesterday, said nine out of 43 upper house MPs from Hatoyama's party seeking re-election in July said Hatoyama's resignation ahead of the poll was unavoidable, while 13 others urged him to make his own decision.

But some cabinet ministers defended Hatoyama.

Finance minister Naoto Kan, a man some have speculated might become the next prime minister, said he has supported Hatoyama's leadership and "that has not changed".

Transport minister Seiji Maehara said he was against frequent leadership change even though Hatoyama should take responsibility for his recent political bungling by staying on to do a better job.

Public support for the current government has slid to 17%, down four percentage points from a previous poll two weeks ago, according to the latest survey by the daily Asahi, published yesterday. Disapproval rating jumped to 70% from 64%.

In a weekend telephone survey of 1,033 voter households, the Kyodo News agency found that more than half said Hatoyama should step down, while 44% disagreed. Kyodo did not give a margin of error, but a poll of that size would normally have a five percentage point sampling error.

I didn't realize the U.S. Okinawa base was such a hot-button issue in Japan.

LeapingGnome wrote:

I didn't realize the U.S. Okinawa base was such a hot-button issue in Japan.

The? The Marines alone have around half a dozen.

After reading the thread title, I was surprised to discover that this was about Japanese rather than American politics.

CannibalCrowley wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:

I didn't realize the U.S. Okinawa base was such a hot-button issue in Japan.

The? The Marines alone have around half a dozen.

I was referring to the one in the article, it mentions "a base" so I assume there is a particular camp causing a problem. Or do you think they mean the whole Bulter system?

Why exactly do we need military bases in Japan? Are we worried about that the Empire will rise again?

Despite how snarky this sounds, this is a serious question. I am legitimately curious.

After WWII the allies took over Japan and then once Japan became independent again it was defenseless. The U.S. signed a treaty that said let us put some bases there and we will defend you. I think Japan's constitution after the war actually said (says?) they can't maintain an army/navy.

In 1960 the U.S. was in the Cold War and wanted a stronger presence in that area and signed a replacement treaty that expanded the agreement even further and I believe that has lasted until the present. It is basically about American power projection and at the time keeping Japan out of the hands of China/Korea/Russia.

At least that is my understanding, but I am not a history buff as much as some others here.

LeapingGnome wrote:

I was referring to the one in the article, it mentions "a base" so I assume there is a particular camp causing a problem. Or do you think they mean the whole Bulter system?

I can't remember the name of it, but years back the Japanese wanted an MCAS moved. It wouldn't surprise me if that's the one that's causing issues.

CannibalCrowley wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:

I was referring to the one in the article, it mentions "a base" so I assume there is a particular camp causing a problem. Or do you think they mean the whole Bulter system?

I can't remember the name of it, but years back the Japanese wanted an MCAS moved. It wouldn't surprise me if that's the one that's causing issues.

It's the Marine base that's causing the ruckus. Hatoyama basically put his foot in his mouth when he declared that he would have an agreement to move the base out of Japan, or at least out of Okinawa by this month. Everyone who had even a little knowledge of the situation knew this was impossible. Combined with his inability to follow through with the earlier campaign promises of the DPJ, it was generally assumed that he would quit or else the DPJ would be slaughtered in the forthcoming election.

Okinawans have always had a tenuous relationship with the American bases. They do inject some money into the local economy however there have been several incidents with American servicemen committing crimes while off base. Most of these are just drunk and disorderly charges, however there have been a few very serious crimes. A couple of the most heinous was the rape of a 12 year old girl by three US servicemen and the attempted rape of another minor by a marine.

The local viewpoint is basically those bases aren't needed anymore, and Futenma in particular is located in the middle of a dense residential area. There was an incident where a helicopter crashed inside a University campus which led to the local community calling the base's location unsafe. Just last month Okinawans made a human chain around the base consisting of approximately 17,000 people. It's a pretty hot topic right now.

iaintgotnopants wrote:

Why exactly do we need military bases in Japan? Are we worried about that the Empire will rise again?

Despite how snarky this sounds, this is a serious question. I am legitimately curious.

To put it simply, North Korea.

LeapingGnome wrote:

After WWII the allies took over Japan and then once Japan became independent again it was defenseless. The U.S. signed a treaty that said let us put some bases there and we will defend you. I think Japan's constitution after the war actually said (says?) they can't maintain an army/navy.

Pretty much true. Although technically Japan isn't supposed to have any armed forces, they got around it by creating the Japan Self-Defense Forces. All personnel are considered "special civil servants" and is entirely controlled by the civilian government. There are no military laws or secrets. The JDF have no long-range offensive capability and are basically a large militia.

cdjaco wrote:

After reading the thread title, I was surprised to discover that this was about Japanese rather than American politics.

I actually assumed you were talking about our patchwork-affair administration.

davet010 wrote:
cdjaco wrote:

After reading the thread title, I was surprised to discover that this was about Japanese rather than American politics.

I actually assumed you were talking about our patchwork-affair administration.

Sounds like us for the last 16 years.

Politics really is universal.

Trainwreck wrote:

To put it simply, North Korea... Pretty much true. Although technically Japan isn't supposed to have any armed forces, they got around it by creating the Japan Self-Defense Forces. All personnel are considered "special civil servants" and is entirely controlled by the civilian government. There are no military laws or secrets. The JDF have no long-range offensive capability and are basically a large militia.

The Japanese have very powerful weaponry. They fly F-15s, a version of the F-16, have destroyers and ASW aircraft. They would buy the F-22 if they could. They knew they were going to fight if the cold war turned hot. The only threat North Korea poses to them is via missiles and subs, and defending against either of those threats is something they can handle if given the tools.

Funkenpants wrote:
Trainwreck wrote:

To put it simply, North Korea... Pretty much true. Although technically Japan isn't supposed to have any armed forces, they got around it by creating the Japan Self-Defense Forces. All personnel are considered "special civil servants" and is entirely controlled by the civilian government. There are no military laws or secrets. The JDF have no long-range offensive capability and are basically a large militia.

The Japanese have very powerful weaponry. They fly F-15s, a version of the F-16, have destroyers and ASW aircraft. They would buy the F-22 if they could. They knew they were going to fight if the cold war turned hot. The only threat North Korea poses to them is via missiles and subs, and defending against either of those threats is something they can handle if given the tools.

I'm not saying that the Japanese aren't capable of defending themselves against North Korea. That's why they created the JDF, to protect themselves from Korea, Russia, and China during the cold war. I honestly think it's kind of laughable how worried the general public is of North Korean missile strikes. Submarine attacks aren't even worth thinking about. Besides, if North Korea was going to attack anyone it'd be South Korea.

These days I'm starting to wonder if the best government is one that tries to do absolutely nothing.

Trainwreck wrote:
CannibalCrowley wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:

I was referring to the one in the article, it mentions "a base" so I assume there is a particular camp causing a problem. Or do you think they mean the whole Bulter system?

I can't remember the name of it, but years back the Japanese wanted an MCAS moved. It wouldn't surprise me if that's the one that's causing issues.

It's the Marine base that's causing the ruckus. Hatoyama basically put his foot in his mouth when he declared that he would have an agreement to move the base out of Japan, or at least out of Okinawa by this month. Everyone who had even a little knowledge of the situation knew this was impossible. Combined with his inability to follow through with the earlier campaign promises of the DPJ, it was generally assumed that he would quit or else the DPJ would be slaughtered in the forthcoming election.

Okinawans have always had a tenuous relationship with the American bases. They do inject some money into the local economy however there have been several incidents with American servicemen committing crimes while off base. Most of these are just drunk and disorderly charges, however there have been a few very serious crimes. A couple of the most heinous was the rape of a 12 year old girl by three US servicemen and the attempted rape of another minor by a marine.

The local viewpoint is basically those bases aren't needed anymore, and Futenma in particular is located in the middle of a dense residential area. There was an incident where a helicopter crashed inside a University campus which led to the local community calling the base's location unsafe. Just last month Okinawans made a human chain around the base consisting of approximately 17,000 people. It's a pretty hot topic right now.

The Okinawa issue is as much a Japanese vs. Okinawa issue as it is an antiAmerican one. The Japanese recognize the toxic nature of foreign troops on their soil. Troops are rarely the best ambassadors even when on best behavior and the idea that someone has got to live next to a military base of foreigners is an uncomfortable truth. As a result, the Japanese would rather a disproportionate burden be placed on ethnic Okinawans, whom they consider practically Chinese anyway.

Not only that, the rent payments that the US military makes on base grounds owned by Okinawans are generally plundered by the Japanese government rather than used to compensate the Okinawans whose land they are using. There are generations of Okinawans who have yet to receive a penny for the land they have had to give up for base expansions, toxic dumping, or simple security reasons.

And the louder the Okinawans complain about this sort of thing, the more the Japanese are glad they don't have to deal with it themselves.

Paleocon wrote:
Trainwreck wrote:
CannibalCrowley wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:

I was referring to the one in the article, it mentions "a base" so I assume there is a particular camp causing a problem. Or do you think they mean the whole Bulter system?

I can't remember the name of it, but years back the Japanese wanted an MCAS moved. It wouldn't surprise me if that's the one that's causing issues.

It's the Marine base that's causing the ruckus. Hatoyama basically put his foot in his mouth when he declared that he would have an agreement to move the base out of Japan, or at least out of Okinawa by this month. Everyone who had even a little knowledge of the situation knew this was impossible. Combined with his inability to follow through with the earlier campaign promises of the DPJ, it was generally assumed that he would quit or else the DPJ would be slaughtered in the forthcoming election.

Okinawans have always had a tenuous relationship with the American bases. They do inject some money into the local economy however there have been several incidents with American servicemen committing crimes while off base. Most of these are just drunk and disorderly charges, however there have been a few very serious crimes. A couple of the most heinous was the rape of a 12 year old girl by three US servicemen and the attempted rape of another minor by a marine.

The local viewpoint is basically those bases aren't needed anymore, and Futenma in particular is located in the middle of a dense residential area. There was an incident where a helicopter crashed inside a University campus which led to the local community calling the base's location unsafe. Just last month Okinawans made a human chain around the base consisting of approximately 17,000 people. It's a pretty hot topic right now.

The Okinawa issue is as much a Japanese vs. Okinawa issue as it is an antiAmerican one. The Japanese recognize the toxic nature of foreign troops on their soil. Troops are rarely the best ambassadors even when on best behavior and the idea that someone has got to live next to a military base of foreigners is an uncomfortable truth. As a result, the Japanese would rather a disproportionate burden be placed on ethnic Okinawans, whom they consider practically Chinese anyway.

Not only that, the rent payments that the US military makes on base grounds owned by Okinawans are generally plundered by the Japanese government rather than used to compensate the Okinawans whose land they are using. There are generations of Okinawans who have yet to receive a penny for the land they have had to give up for base expansions, toxic dumping, or simple security reasons.

And the louder the Okinawans complain about this sort of thing, the more the Japanese are glad they don't have to deal with it themselves.

And you know the real kicker of this, the one that makes Hatoyama a real jackass? While the Okinawans weren't very happy with the existing deal that moved the base to Henoko in the northern part of Okinawa, they still had agreed to it in 2006. When Hatoyama made his promise and tried to renegotiate the deal there was no way he could come up with an agreement in 6 months when the prior agreement took 10 years to get done. And guess where the base is going to end up? That's right, in Henoko, the original relocation site. He managed to get the Okinawans all stirred up again and in the end all he achieved is ill will from the Okinawans and further re-inforced his image as the prime minister who can't do anything. During his period in office this was practically the only decision he made, and it was a horrible one. He dug his own grave with this one.

About 9 years ago, I was in Tokyo for a job. I was living in Hanzomon at the time and ended up spending a lot of time getting drunk as hell in the Pongi.

One night, I was entertaining a prospective client at a drinky drink place when a squad of marines came in. They had just gotten liberty and were ready to pour through their pay in alcohol. Instantly, the bar girls spotted them like predators and started up conversations.

I couldn't tell if they knew the score or not, but I decided I would give them the benefit of a little advice. I spotted the alpha among the marines, took him aside and told him that the girls worked for the bar and that any drinks his boys bought for them would also cover "conversation" fees. Things were going to get expensive and if he was going to manage his night out, he might want to plan accordingly. He decided to ignore my advice.

About two hours later, I noticed that the jarheads were loud and argumentative. They were, apparently, shocked at the size of the bar bill and were pointing at the menu to prove their point that the drinks shouldn't cost what they did. The manager offered to resolve the dispute outside where it would not disturb the rest of the guests.

I didn't know what was going to happen next, but I felt a certain American obligation to go outside and help. I politely excused myself from my guest and ran outside to see what was going on.

The argument got even louder and more emotional. At one point, the owner started pointing his finger in the face of the lead marine. After some escalating posturing, the marine hit the little Japanese man with an overhand right that collapsed him clean. That's when the street exploded in violence.

From just about every bar front door, enormous West African bouncers pulled out baseball bats and beat the everloving snail snot out of those marines. I think the marines managed to get one or two licks in, but it was a decidedly one-sided massacre.

I wasn't going to get my ass kicked along with them, but I didn't think it was right to just stand around doing nothing while fellow Americans were getting killed in a foreign country (no matter how much they had it coming). So I walked up to the Koban (police) box where a uniformed patrol officer was calmly reading the day's paper. He could clearly see what was going on, so I knocked on the window to draw it to his attention.

He pulled down the shade and went back to his paper.

Paleocon wrote:

Crazy story

Wow, what a scene.

I thought most of those places simply gave gaijin "the X". Those guys should have listened to their seniors and gone to an actual bar/club where there's plenty of free tail running around.

CannibalCrowley wrote:

I thought most of those places simply gave gaijin "the X". Those guys should have listened to their seniors and gone to an actual bar/club where there's plenty of free tail running around.

Unfortunately, the quality of tail in "open" places like Gas Panic is pretty bottom of the barrel. Sure, it was rented eye candy, but it was a whole lot better looking than you'd find in the volunteer establishments.

Paleocon wrote:

Unfortunately, the quality of tail in "open" places like Gas Panic is pretty bottom of the barrel.

You can find some good local talent if you look hard enough, we did. Plus there's the other travelers. The few times that we were there, we hooked up with a group of European tourists at least once every trip.

CannibalCrowley wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

Unfortunately, the quality of tail in "open" places like Gas Panic is pretty bottom of the barrel.

You can find some good local talent if you look hard enough, we did. Plus there's the other travelers. The few times that we were there, we hooked up with a group of European tourists at least once every trip.

Agreed, but it usually means you have to know how to salsa (like I did). The best volunteer local talent seems to be the Japanese Brazilians at the salsa clubs. Wow. Skinny Japanese with hips and boobs that can speak Portuguese.

Japanese Brazilians? Just when you think things can't get any better...I love life.

CelestialNavigation wrote:

Japanese Brazilians? Just when you think things can't get any better...I love life.

And things just keep getting better.... There are more Japanese Brazilians than Japanese North Americans. And yes, they are almost universally muito quente!

Paleocon wrote:
CelestialNavigation wrote:

Japanese Brazilians? Just when you think things can't get any better...I love life.

And things just keep getting better.... There are more Japanese Brazilians than Japanese North Americans. And yes, they are almost universally muito quente!

I can confirm.