UPDATE: Wifely disapproval of video games

I'm sorry to say, but your wife isn't being very reasonable. There is nothing inherently "wrong" with videogames, provided that we all understand that some people can't control themselves and maybe shouldn't play WoW or whatever.

As to the "videogames are worthless" - well, yes. They are. That's what entertainment usually is. If your wife is not cool with entertainment, you may have a problem.

Videogames are very dear to my heart. It is a childhood fascination which grew into a very rewarding hobby (very dear friends, writing, website-building, contacts made through gaming) and has now landed me with my dreamjob.

I could look at any one of my other hobbies and easily consider them less worthy (not that I do, but if you need to have an argument about this).

Snowboarding? I hurt my back and it's expensive.
Reading books? Just a waste of time, never made me any money or friends. (Maybe I should only read fact, not fiction?)
Watching TV? Huge waste of time, I can't think of any positive effects save for something to discuss with friends, and a way to spend time with my wife. (Actually, sometimes I find watching TV annoying, something I do just because my wife likes it. No reason to make a fuss about it, people can't be 100% compatible all the time, I think.)
Painting miniatures? Wow, nerdy and expensive and worthless - but I get to express myself, so I guess maybe that's ok.

The people on this forum are the best people in the internet I've discovered over the best 15 years or so. The most intelligent, civilized, well-mannered, considerate and polite people, only combined by our (age and) love of videogames. At the same time, a huge part of us are successful in life, happily married, have children - by no means visionless society dropouts who live in our basements (well, I don't want to discriminate, but you get the idea). I don't know if you can have an argument much worthier than that.

Sometimes (rarely) my wife thinks I'm spending too much time with a given videogame. She tells me about the way she feels and I make more time for her. (Coincidentally, this sometimes happens the other way around, too, as she's an on-and-off gamer.)

So... seeing how easy it is to defend entertainment in general and videogames in particular (and if you need rational help, do read "Everything Bad Is Good For You", it's a short and fun read), I'm kind of worried that maybe your wife's problem is with the image of videogaming and gamers in her mind. Maybe she sees that you're a nerd who should be hidden in the basement when you play games. Could you maybe widen her perspectives a bit? Get a DS/Wii and some fun, not-intimidating games, like Professor Layton or Wii Sports?

The first thing I did was "Ctrl+F" for Marsman. Since he hasn't posted in here, I'll drop him a PM on your (and the thread's) behalf. If the search worked worth a damn, I'd find and link the thread where he actually did give up games... but I guess an update will have to do.

Sarcophagus wrote:

Part of it might be the newlywed thing. At first, I think that we both bought a common newlywed misconception: the idea that married people should have 100% agreement on everything and that all leisure time should be spent together doing things we both enjoy. In general, I still think it's healthy to spend a good deal of our leisure time together doing whatever (not an innuendo, sickos).

It's a bit of a personal question, but: did you live together before you were married? If you've ever had another live-in partner or roommate (family doesn't count), you'll know that there's a period of time when you adjust to new boundaries and spaces.

beeporama wrote:

Maybe have "game time"-- Saturday morning before noon and Thursday evening before 10pm, and those are the only times you play, no more than ten hours a week-- or whatever works for you. I could be projecting, though. My wife never had a problem with video games per se, but she did have a problem with me playing them way too long sometimes.

This was more or less my situation. My wife doesn't have a problem with video games, but she had a problem with when and how often I was playing them. We worked out a schedule that had reasonable limits we could both agree on, and things have been great since. What you might consider doing is offering your wife a sort of trial period. You set up some small amount of time each week when you're allowed to game, without guilt, and let it play out for a month or so; you can use that to show her that gaming is just like any other hobby.

Mex wrote:

Short version: Get new wife

Maybe there's some kind of open source firmware patch that will upgrade my wife, DD-WRT style.

Also, that's 2 recommendations for "Everything Bad Is Good For You." Kindle-ing (Trying to verb Kindle. Should that be Kindling?) it now.

Legion nailed it: she does not get to decide what you can and cannot do. She's your wife, not your boss. She should respect you as an equal, not one of her young students.

Whether she admits it or not, there are probably things she wants to do that you don't want to do either, which may be reading, watching films or TV you don't like, or nights out with the girls, whatever. Can't you schedule personal time where you get to do these things. My wife doesn't like playing games either (she's doesn't object to them or anything, and I made it clear that games are part of the package when you marry Dudley), but we schedule it in around times when do things as a couple.

Grumpicus wrote:

The first thing I did was "Ctrl+F" for Marsman. Since he hasn't posted in here, I'll drop him a PM on your (and the thread's) behalf. If the search worked worth a damn, I'd find and link the thread where he actually did give up games... but I guess an update will have to do.

Looks like that was here.

I'd be interested in hearing an update, too.

I see that you're in Chicago. How about you get her to sit down with Wordsmythe and debate the topic?

I'm in Legion's camp on this one.

Since everything productive seems to be covered, I'll offer this: Offer to switch hobbies for her. You've always thought about taking up bathtub gin distilling/guzzling, right?

N'thing the your wife should have some respect for what you want to do with your free time. It sounds like your wife wants to control what you do and the 'rationale' is just window-dressing. That may sound harsh, but it sounds like the core of the problem.

My wife doesn't like videogames, but understands that I do, and that I can play them and still have a functioning marriage, help raise two children and have a high degree of productivity in my job (in fact without videogames, those other things would probably be more difficult because they are a way I de-compress).

Does your wife have any hobbies? Tell her she can't do them anymore until she can satisfy you on the merits of them. Then don't accept any of her arugments. See if she gets pissed off at you. Then raise one eyebrow and go "That's how I feel about videogames".

Insulting another person's hobbies (especially a spouse's) is not a nice thing to do. It's insulting and condescending.

Quit Videogames and take up smoking or drinking. That should put things into perspective.

I found this to be a pretty interesting read, but honestly, if it is your hobby, and you aren't hurting anyone, and you're benefitting from it, it seems to me that gaming is in the plus column. Just because she doesn't agree with it, it's no different than wives that don't like it when their husbands have other annoying habits.

I suspect she married you because of the person you are, not the person she wanted you to be. I think if you made a pretty large adjustment to your life to cut out a hobby you really enjoy, it would change the person she married.

Honestly, I think she has a bigger issue with videogames than of you playing it like a few others already mentioned. If you can find the reason behind it, you might be able to avoid the whole confrontational, angry arguement. There's enough reasons here already to suggest that you are getting something out of it, and everyone needs some alone time. If that's how you want to spend it, and life is moving on without problems, then hopefully she'll just respect that it's something you like to do.

Hope you two crazy kids can work it out!

I got a dirt bike recently. It's silly, stupid fun with absolutely no value other than pure entertainment. I rewarded myself for completing a two year certification I had been busting my balls over, and it was quite a personal achievement and well received by my employer. The wife had no issues at all with this, and was happy for me, even though she may or may not understand the fun one can have with a bike.

I'd say it's not video games that are the underlying issue, it's more that your wife needs to come to grips with what you choose to do for fun. Work hard and play hard. If you just work hard, you'll hit an early grave without a lot of rewarding experiences on the side.

Long story short: Tell her to deal with it - you have to choose your battles wisely, and in the grand scope of things, video games are not worthy to dissect with such absolute scrutiny.

My wife does not disapprove of my video gaming habits, but I'll throw in my part on your disagreements.

Video gaming is an inherently anti-social enterprise.
Show her this website. Other websites where people talk about video games. Find some goodjers in your area. Show her that we often have get-togethers (don't call it Slap & Tickle) to talk about video games.

Video gaming produces socially maladjusted individuals, and most adult gamers are "basement dwellers."
Unless you fall into this category, you are proof that this is incorrect. It is a generalization and/or stereotype, but focus on how you don't fit it. You are not a "basement dweller" or maladjusted. You use video games as a hobby to pass the time because you enjoy it.

Video gaming is a waste of time.
Unless you are Amish, you are allowed to waste time. Relaxing is very important to our brains. Some people watch TV, others read books or play sports. Video gaming is no different.

Video gaming is a childish enterprise that most adults find infantile.
I'm sure it would be easy to find out approximately how many adults play video games. Browser games number in the millions of people alone.

Video gaming isn't fun, just addictive.
This point sounds more like saying it is impossible to not play video games and be addicted. Find any signs of addiction and show her you don't even come close. You readily give it up to spend time with her. You go to work and sleep like anyone else.

Video gaming is an escapist (in the bad sense of the word) enterprise in a way that books or movies aren't.
For some people, but not for everyone. To qualify for Escapism, the person has to be escaping from something. Are you escaping from something? Do you have a horrible life? Do you suffer from depression? If not, then why would you need escapism?
Also look up articles about how video games are not art. Or how movies are better than games because you can fully immerse yourself in the story without interaction.

All games have objectionable content.
It should be very easy to find games that do not have objectionable content. Tetris, since she has played it. For modern games, the Wii and DS have plenty to offer. Show her the ESRB rating system. Heck, send an email to someone at the ESRB asking if all games have questionable content.

Wrapup:

I went through this with my mother who was against video games for over 20 years of my life. What brought her around was going to a Video Games Live concert. She got to see just that thousands of people not only played video games, but came to a music concert. She met a lot of people and found them to be engaging and good people. People with jobs and families, just like me. It dispelled many of her fears in one night.
Another thing that you may have already tried, is to tell her how important she is to you. If she asked you to give up video games, you would. No addict can do that. Tell her that you enjoy it and it is a part of who you are. You want to spend the rest of your life with her, and while it will be hard to not play video games again, you would do it because you love her that much.

I will chime in, as I have personal experience with this dilemna.

My first marriage broke up, and one of the main reasons my ex-wife likes to use is "gaming". I'll be the first to admit, I was doing things wrong. I was gaming instead of spending time with her and the kids, I was spending money indiscriminantly on my gaming habit. After some counselling, I learned that the gaming was just a symptom of a MUCH greater problem. I was using gaming as an escape from our problems in the relationship. It turns out that we were doomed, and were unable to reconcile.. which is all for the best. My ex-wife used all of those arguments that you have mentioned. I tried giving gaming up, and I was miserable. It did NOTHING to save our marriage.

Fast forward 3 years to now. I am engaged to a WONDERFUL woman who although thinks gaming to the level at which I like to do is silly, supports me in having gaming as a hobby. She likes Rock Band, and the odd co-op game but would much rather watch HGTV, TLC and bridal shows. We sort of have a mutual understanding that I don't comment on her "hobbies", and she doesn't comment on mine. Sure everytime I strap on a headset to play online I'm sure to be made fun of, but I know it's in good fun.

The key though is that I've changed where gaming comes into my life. My children and fiancee come first, training for triathlons second, and gaming third. Sure I'd love to play late into the evening and all weekend, but then I wouldn't be spending quality time with those that I love. Games are always going to be there.

As to your situation, I would suggest some couples counselling as I would guess that there are bigger problems then just the gaming. I once have a friend who on the outside looks to have the perfect relationship, they never seem to fight, and love spending time together. He once told me that if you have been married for 5 years and HAVEN'T gone to some sort of counselling, you are risking your relationship.

Good Luck!

Dimmerswitch wrote:
MrDeVil909 wrote:

Anything that exists for entertainment is inherently not worthwhile.

Strongly disagree with this point. Even if there are no other redeeming qualities, enjoyment is a worthwhile pursuit in its own right (not to the exclusion of other pursuits, but that applies to pretty much any activity).

I'll point back to God resting on the 7th day, since church was mentioned in the original post.

Also, you're getting up early in the morning to play video games before work? You're not cutting out morning next to you in bed time, or something else (many possibilities here other than the one you are all thinking) are you?

Tought spot man. Sadly I'm just a young whipper-snapper with little of value to contribute.

That said:

Sarcophagus wrote:

GWJ SAVED MY MARRIAGE!!!

great tag candidate.

I'm kind of surprised this didn't come out before you got married, if it's as big a deal as you seem to make it.

Anyway! You don't need to turn her into a gamer, you just need her to give you space to be one if you like. Try finding a pointless hobby she likes and compare it to that.

Nothing to contribute as I'm a failure at relationships... Just wanted to tag this thread to see how the saga turns out. Good luck!

Sarcophagus wrote:

She grew up without a television or computer in a very conservative, technophobic family. Because of this, she is VERY sensitive to violence, sexuality and vulgarity. We're both teachers, and she talked a great deal about how she thinks harmful video games influence her middle school students, most of who have little to no parental supervision.

...

We've had a few big fights over this issue, mostly because she asked what I did that morning or at some point, and I honestly responded that I played videogames. She doesn't want to issue an ultimatum and say that I CANNOT play video games, but whenever I do play games (about once every two weeks, generally in the mornings before work), she asks about it. I'm not going to lie about it, so she finds out and gets angry. That leads us to the situation we're in now.

...

It mentions that parties resolve situations with a win-win solution, win-lose situation, or lose-lose situation, and she herself has said that this is probably a win-lose situation, which generally leads to discontent for both parties in the long term. She said that she wants me to present a convincing argument as to why videogames are worthwhile and why I should spend my time playing them.

Does she? Or does she want you to stand up for yourself and make a decision that she simply has to live with? I don't know if I can offer specific advice without knowing more about the dynamic, but it's not unknown for women to want a husband who is to some extent an old school head of the household.

The things you say about her upbringing, her desire not to issue an ultimatum but refusal to stop asking what you did that morning, and this whole idea of win/win vs. win/lose makes me think this isn't just about video games, this is about marriage roles. Strangely, lose/lose might be you giving in to her wishes, which is not a win for her because even though she's getting what she says she wants, she's not getting what she may really want deep down.

I mean, those are pretty categorical statements she's making in the "Points of Disagreement" section, which makes me think they're not points of disagreement at all: it makes me think this is a challenge, a test that maybe she isn't even aware she's putting you through.

Nobody really gives us any direction in figuring out what we want in relationships, so it's understandable that people can be confused and not really know themselves. We just call it 'love' and act like that's all that there is to a healthy relationship. Love is the foundation, but the dynamics of the two people as partners is the structure you build on that foundation and inhabit in a relationship.

Maybe I'm totally wrong and this is a 'content' argument about video games, but from what you've said, it could also be part of the process of defining the 'mechanics' of the relationship, just using video games as the cockpit in which to have this conflict.

Dimmerswitch wrote:
MrDeVil909 wrote:

Anything that exists for entertainment is inherently not worthwhile.

Strongly disagree with this point. Even if there are no other redeeming qualities, enjoyment is a worthwhile pursuit in its own right

Well, yeah. Of course. But trying to prove the worth of your LARPing hobby to someone who just sees you dressed as an elf isn't going to fly. Someone who looks down on your past time is not going to be swayed, while thinking their own past times are worthwhile.

You can't prove the value of videogaming. It's fun, that's its value and it's unprovable. That was more my point.

ThatGuy42 wrote:

1) I'm a productive member of society with a full time job, a wife, a son, and a dog who owns his home.

Your dog owns his own home? That kicks so much ass.

Sorry.

I double post for drupal.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

It's a bit of a personal question, but: did you live together before you were married? If you've ever had another live-in partner or roommate (family doesn't count), you'll know that there's a period of time when you adjust to new boundaries and spaces.

We didn't live together, but we did spend most of our time together. There's definitely a big jump from spending most of your leisure time together to living together, but with this one exception, we've been very surprised at how easy that transition has been for both of us. I think this is an area where you're definitely right, however.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

I see that you're in Chicago. How about you get her to sit down with Wordsmythe and debate the topic?

That's an idea, especially since we attend the same church as Wordsmythe and see him and his wife often.

Great ideas about trying to sell her on pretty innocent games. I showed her Professor Layton, but she wasn't into it. She didn't immediately hate it, however, which was nice.

El-Producto wrote:

The key though is that I've changed where gaming comes into my life. My children and fiancee come first, training for triathlons second, and gaming third. Sure I'd love to play late into the evening and all weekend, but then I wouldn't be spending quality time with those that I love. Games are always going to be there.

As to your situation, I would suggest some couples counselling as I would guess that there are bigger problems then just the gaming. I once have a friend who on the outside looks to have the perfect relationship, they never seem to fight, and love spending time together. He once told me that if you have been married for 5 years and HAVEN'T gone to some sort of counselling, you are risking your relationship.

Good Luck!

Lots of good advice here that multiple people have mentioned. I think the thing that will have the greatest impact is helping her understand that she's a higher priority than any hobby. Also, I think it's a good idea to check out counseling in general, so maybe I'll ask her about that.

I will say this from my standpoint as an old wise man: balance and moderation are key. It will require effort and compromise but there's no reason you can't work out something that works for you both without completely giving up something you enjoy. For something that isn't actively harmful -- heroin, say -- there's no logical reason you shouldn't be able to enjoy any particular hobby. You might simply need to be more realistic as to the amount of time you are willing and able to dedicate to it. Discussion will help. What would she find reasonable? What would be unreasonable. Make note that it's unreasonable for her to say "you can never play again".

I'll look at it from the opposite perspective because I've seen that side too. My wife's friend has a husband that takes it overboard. He comes home from work and gets in front of the computer. He'll take some time to wolf down some food and then it's back at it until he goes to bed. Every night. On the weekend he's there for most of the day except when he does yard work. To me that's too much, especially given he has an 8-year-old daughter. I've picked up my daughter after a playdate over there and he can't even get the door when I knock, though the computer is quite literally 10 feet from it. No, the wife has to come from wherever to get it. To me that's pathetic. I'm (at least nominally) a gamer, but that's way too extreme.

Everything in moderation. Unless you're a furry. Then you can just f*ck off and get help.

Sarcophagus wrote:

Great ideas about trying to sell her on pretty innocent games. I showed her Professor Layton, but she wasn't into it. She didn't immediately hate it, however, which was nice.

Do you have a 360? Maybe try get her to help you out in a game of Viva Pinata. That has a co-op feature. (I think)

Sorry for a quick OT comment.

ColdForged.. great blog! As a fellow endurance athlete/dad, love it!

Google directions to Lancaster PA, drop her off at the first horse drawn buggy you find. She needs to get some perspective, and you need to sack up. Giving up something you love because your partner is an irrational loon isn't romantic, it's stupid. This just seems to be a major example of why you better live with someone before you marry them.

Dimmerswitch wrote:
Grumpicus wrote:

The first thing I did was "Ctrl+F" for Marsman. Since he hasn't posted in here, I'll drop him a PM on your (and the thread's) behalf. If the search worked worth a damn, I'd find and link the thread where he actually did give up games... but I guess an update will have to do.

Looks like that was here.

I'd be interested in hearing an update, too.

Thanks for finding that. I bow to your Google-fu.

One more minor point. I have daughters so to most, this will seem fairly counter-intuitive but this thread is yet one more example of why I will them to, when they get engaged to be married (and only after he's asked and she's accepted), they move in together for the period of at least one year (if they haven't already, of course, which I _will_ discourage). There is just so much more that you find out about a person when you have to share a roof.

Edit: Edit to, as I catch up on the thread, tip the hat to ClockworkHouse, who already alluded to the value of co-habitation.

ColdForged wrote:

Everything in moderation. Unless you're a furry. Then you can just f*ck off and get help.

OK, now, that's just funny.

To continue on a more serious note, another reason you need to work this video game thing out with your wife is that you may have children some day, and this will pop up again. Kids today are totally immersed in video game culture; when we got a Wii for Christmas, we were some of the last people around to get one. My wife grumbles about all video games for kids, and I regularly point out there are lots of positives. My son played Viva Pinata on my 360, and got to level 40-something. I point out that he learned strategy and planning, about the value of money (virtual money, but still money), how to run a small economy, how to balance the needs of all sorts of different creatures . . . that game is absolutely great for kids. Heck, he did more with it than I did. Now, yeah, Mario Kart's not exactly making the brain cells scream along, but some games are like junk food and some have actual benefit. Spore, for all its failings, absolutely fascinated my kids. My five-year-old daughter loves making creatures. She likes art. I point out that it's still creativity one way or another. My wife grumbles about it, but tries to cope.

Is your wife going to ban games for your kids? Is she going to prevent your children from going over to friends' houses where games will be played? We live in a culture where gaming in some form is becoming pretty ubiquitous, and she's going to need to learn to cope with that.

Other folks have said it, but giving up gaming based on her uninformed opinion of it would be a big mistake. My wife and I did not live together before we got married. We both had a TON of adjustments to make, one of which was my gaming. She doesn't have a problem with games, but is not much of a gamer herself. What did cause problems was her feeling I would choose gaming over her. It was a fair point. I changed my habits, when I game and how much, but I still game and she understands how much a part of my life it is.

As for the gamers are anti-social wierdos point, show her this site. Look at this community. Gaming brings us all together but we share a lot of our lives here. Ok, a lot of us are weirdos, but not anti-social!

Also show her the Penny Arcade TV episodes about Child's Play. It's pretty moving stuff. There are some great moments too in the episode covering PAX East.

Child's Play 1
Child's Play 2

Well I wrote a long post that just got hosed by a time-out.

Short version:

People need alone time to charge their mental/physical/emotional batteries. Healthy couples recognise this and don't disparage a partner for having unique, unshared interests as long as each individual is pulling their weight in the marriage and life in general.

It's distressing to hear that your wife has deemed herself the arbiter of what makes you feel good during your alone time.