UPDATE: Wifely disapproval of video games

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GWJ Community, help me!
So I recently got married and have been enjoying a marital bliss. It's pretty awesome, and we agree about most things. But recently, gaming has driven a wedge in our relationship. I want to know how other gamers with disapproving wives make gaming work within the context of a marriage.

THE SHORT VERSION:
My wife disapproves of my video game playing, and I've voluntarily agreed to stop playing at all in the short term until we can really talk about it. At this conversation, she wants to present an argument as to why videogames are not inherently evil/pointless/wasteful and why they are worth playing at all. HELP!

Spoiler:

THE LONG VERSION:
During our dating relationship, I learned that TMEW (the most excellent wife) wasn't really a video game player. The only times she's ever seen me playing games other than phone games were at parties where Rock Band was happening. She will usually refuse to play, but after a drink or two can be occasionally be talked into playing guitar for a song on No Fail Mode. Other than this, she enjoys playing Tetris on her phone but feels incredibly guilty about it and dislikes all other games.

She grew up without a television or computer in a very conservative, technophobic family. Because of this, she is VERY sensitive to violence, sexuality and vulgarity. We're both teachers, and she talked a great deal about how she thinks harmful video games influence her middle school students, most of who have little to no parental supervision. For the most part, I agreed with her that incredibly adult video games without any parental influence are generally a bad thing (but let's not go off on a big tangent here, that's not the point). Other than that, we didn't talk about them much, and honestly, I haven't played much since we started dating a long while back (maybe 3 hours a week, generally PC gaming. My 360 hasn't been used for anything other than Rock Band in over a year).

Since we got married, however, we've been having bigger and bigger conflicts about video gaming. There are several things she says about gaming that I agree with, and several things that she says that I disagree with.

POINTS OF AGREEMENT:
Videogames can be addictive and can detract from the limited time we have (we're both graduate students, work full time as public school teachers, and actively participate in our church).
When I'm engrossed in something (be it games, books, projects, or anything else), I can be unresponsive to her and her needs.
As a home that we share, if there are particular games that she disapproves of due to incredibly violent or sexual content, they shouldn't be in our house.
We should be free to spend leisure time as we wish, provided our partner doesn't view said activity with intense disapproval.
Kids should not be playing incredibly explicit games.

POINTS OF DISAGREEMENT:
Video gaming is an inherently anti-social enterprise.
Video gaming produces socially maladjusted individuals, and most adult gamers are "basement dwellers."
Video gaming is a waste of time.
Video gaming is a childish enterprise that most adults find infantile.
Video gaming isn't fun, just addictive.
Video gaming is an escapist (in the bad sense of the word) enterprise in a way that books or movies aren't.
All games have objectionable content.

We've had a few big fights over this issue, mostly because she asked what I did that morning or at some point, and I honestly responded that I played videogames. She doesn't want to issue an ultimatum and say that I CANNOT play video games, but whenever I do play games (about once every two weeks, generally in the mornings before work), she asks about it. I'm not going to lie about it, so she finds out and gets angry. That leads us to the situation we're in now.

Of my own volition (she hasn't forced me into it), I have voluntarily given up games, and will not play until we discuss this issue and find an approach that works for both of us. She's been reading The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, and has encountered a passage talking about conflict resolution. It mentions that parties resolve situations with a win-win solution, win-lose situation, or lose-lose situation, and she herself has said that this is probably a win-lose situation, which generally leads to discontent for both parties in the long term. She said that she wants me to present a convincing argument as to why videogames are worthwhile and why I should spend my time playing them.

Should she remain unconvinced, gaming and I will go our separate ways. I'll probably get really into sports or something. *shudder*
Have any of you been in a similar position? Does anyone have any points I can make in gaming's defense? What about particular games that might convince her of their worth or at least their innocuousness?

5/18 UPDATE:
The wife and I had a long discussion last night, and I think we got to root of the issue. She's very sensitive to violence. She watches no television, rarely watches movies, and usually turns them off if there's a violent scene. Many people have a violence threshold over which media is unacceptable. I think I'm probably a bit more sensitive to violence than the average gamer (I had to stop playing Gears a while back because the behavior of people in pub games, combined with the graphic violence, unsettled me), but her threshold is near the bottom. Essentially, her tolerance threshold for violence is zero.Like I mentioned earlier, she grew up without television in a family that was strongly pacifistic, and I think it's really shaped her thinking. Because of this, ANY violence makes her uncomfortable, and graphic violence is repulsive to her.

In the end, I think it's going to work out. She acknowledged that she has a specific beef with video games that she doesn't have with other media because an overwhelming majority of the video games she's seen are focused on violent resolution to conflict. Furthermore, given a video game and a movie with similar levels of violence, the video game is more offensive to her because of the agency and interactivity. She had never seen non-violent video games other than Wii games or mobile, so I think I'll have to show her some puzzle games or SimCity style games to show her the types of games I intend to play.

Although I did play my fair share of violent FPS games in the past (anyone remember Soldier of Fortune and Quarantine?), the majority of my gaming in the last few years has been less violent and more nerdy: dirty hippie indie games like Sleep is Death, Dwarf Fortress, roguelikes, Interactive Fiction games (think Zork), Civ 4, Puzzle Quest, Star Control 2 (UQM), Space Rangers 2 and it's ilk, Bioware games (probably the most violent things I play), any space sims I can find, a fair number of RPG and strategy games on the DS like Puzzle Quest, and lots and lots of Rock Band.

We're going to talk again later to discuss specific terms, such as the times when it's okay for me to play and times when it isn't, with the understanding that I won't be playing graphically violent games. Is my threshold of violence at the same place as hers? Absolutely not. Do I think it's fair for her to dictate that certain leisure media are okay and others aren't? Absolutely not. Will there be video games I want to play in the future that have more violence than she's comfortable with? It's almost a certainty. But I do think that she should have a say in what specific games within that medium are good or not good to play. As to how much say she has, that will be something we need to hammer out. Also, she acknowledged that the road goes both ways. If there are behaviors she engages in that I find morally objectionable, I have a voice in that area. I'm not naive enough to think that this will be the last conflict that we have on this matter, but I think it may be the biggest, and it will likely be the conflict that sets the tone for future conflicts.

The most important thing, I think, was HOW we discussed it. We both realized we had some misconceptions about each other's positions (I think I overstated her revulsion for the people who play video games and understated her revulsion for violence), and we both tried to understand each other. It made a big deal that I've never been dishonest and when I said I wouldn't play video games until we reached a compromise, I stayed true to my word. We were both willing to concede things and make concessions to reach a compromise. In the long run, this may not even rank on the list of biggest conflicts we encounter, so I think we may look back on it and laugh at how serious we thought it all was. But the way we resolve it may determine or at least presage the way we resolve bigger conflicts. So in my mind, out of this unfavorable situation, positive outcomes resulted.

In related news, anyone have any non-violent game recommendations for wussy PCs or 360? I'll be shopping soon

My wife strongly dislikes video games but I hate to say it this seems like a bigger issue. It doesn't matter if she likes them it matters whether you have a right to do things that you enjoy. When you start getting into sports what will happen when she doesn't like the people you play basketball with? Just quit the league? I could go on with examples but the thing is it is no very respectful for her to force you to give up something you enjoy just because she doesn't see the point.

My wife is totally cool with me gaming (consoles at least, due to the pause button. But she made me quit the WoWz). These are the reasons she is ok with gaming -

-Some of the games are fun for her to watch / play. She absolutely loved watching me play Shadow of the Colossus and the Metal Gear games.

-The hobby is, all things considered, cheap. I buy used when I can, trade the games for other games on switchgames.com, and sell games that I can make a profit on.

-The hobby keeps me at home. A lot of guys want to go out to the bars for a guys night, or run around at strip clubs - but for me, a good friday night is having a bottle of wine with the wife, then when she goes to bed hopping on xbox live with my buddies and playing some multiplayer. Best of both worlds.

-My wife knows how much I enjoy it. We all need hobbies, and in a healthy relationship, we should encourage our significant other to have a hobby or two.

Here are things I do to keep her sweet on gaming -

-Don't play bloody gore-fests right in front of her, so that she thinks I am some kind of monster. I save those for when she goes to bed.

-I play family friendly games, that she likes watching. Take the Lego games - the wife loves watching me play them, due to the cutesy art style (seriously, who doesn't like legos!), and I enjoy playing them because they are fun (and easy achievements!).

-Make time for her. I am a pretty compulsive gamer, but even I know when to turn the game off and ask the wife to go for a walk, or just to hang out with her, with the xbox in the off position.

Good luck, friend.

Maybe you could each agree to read a book of the other's choosing, and discuss the outcome? You could suggest something like "Everything Bad Is Good For You".

I would say that you give them up. And once she sees how thorougly depressed you are and realizes that nothing she's trying is working, maybe she'll reopen the dialogue. At its core, videogames are a form of entertainment, so I suggest you don't take a hard line on this one. In fact, set her down in front of Katamari Damacy and tell her NOT to have fun.

Grenn wrote:

In fact, set her down in front of Katamari Damacy and tell her NOT to have fun.

This, emphatically.

You bastard, why did you marry my wife?

OK, not so much. My wife thinks video games are stupid. Incredibly stupid. Part of this is age--at 40, I'm definitely on the older side for the average hardcore gamer, and she'll be 45 on Friday, pushing her even further from the average gamer demographic. She also grew up in a thoroughly non-technological household, and, even though she's in IT now, she seems to distrust all sorts of technological stuff and regularly grumbles that she wishes we were living in the small Iowa town she grew up in so the kids could get a "broader education", which apparently means "looking at chickens and pigs". I, on the other hand, am an utter technological whore, and pretty much every "toy" I own that isn't a musical instrument is technology of some sort.

My wife thinks gaming is stupid, but she eventually recognized that it's "my stupid", for lack of a better term, and she let it go. I game almost every night; she goes to bed early, as she gets up at 5 or some godawful hour, I go downstairs and mash buttons. As long as I'm skipping out on household responsibilities and goofing off constantly, it's fine. I know she'd prefer I had another hobby, but I have this one, and she accepts that. And here's the big thing:

Your wife needs to accept it, too. Forcing you to change something because she doesn't like it is going to cause problems down the road. You can't tell me you won't resent this. She's right; it would be a win-lose situation, and it'll drive you crazy in the long run. If you want to show games with a positive side, Rock Band works, as it's a party game and you get a large group of people enjoying themselves. Civ-esque games are also very educational, introducing people to concepts about how various cultural progressions build on each other and forcing you to do lots of strategic thinking and planning. Puzzle games make you work your brain in all sorts of ways.

In the end, though, you shouldn't have to justify it. She's being controlling, and she needs to accept that you are two different people and you have different interests. You're not one of her students and you shouldn't have to write an essay like you're some delinquent high school kid. Successful relationships are built on mutual respect, and you're not getting much respect here.

Sarcophagus wrote:

I want to know how other gamers with disapproving wives make gaming work within the context of a marriage.

By having respect for each other's interests.

Your wife thinking that your hobbies have to go through her personal vetting process is an issue of respect (or lack of), not an issue of video games.

I would argue it is the right of every hard-working person to have "unproductive" hobbies with which to relax, if they so choose.

It's one thing if you're sitting at home all day, being unproductive with your life. It's quite another thing if you're a hard-working person and want to enjoy a hobby when you're not cranking out productive work. The brain needs to rest.

It's also clear that your wife is making arguments that are rooted in ignorance about video games. Yet somehow she seems to think the burden of proof is on you. If she wants you to give up something you enjoy, the burden should be on her to have her facts correct and not base her demands on ignorance.

But again, when it comes down to it, it's not actually about video games.

Sarcophagus wrote:

POINTS OF DISAGREEMENT:
Video gaming is an inherently anti-social enterprise.
Video gaming produces socially maladjusted individuals, and most adult gamers are "basement dwellers."
Video gaming is a waste of time.
Video gaming is a childish enterprise that most adults find infantile.
Video gaming isn't fun, just addictive.
Video gaming is an escapist (in the bad sense of the word) enterprise in a way that books or movies aren't.
All games have objectionable content.

We've had a few big fights over this issue, mostly because she asked what I did that morning or at some point, and I honestly responded that I played videogames. She doesn't want to issue an ultimatum and say that I CANNOT play video games, but whenever I do play games (about once every two weeks, generally in the mornings before work), she asks about it. I'm not going to lie about it, so she finds out and gets angry. That leads us to the situation we're in now.

Of my own volition (she hasn't forced me into it), I have voluntarily given up games, and will not play until we discuss this issue and find an approach that works for both of us. She's been reading The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, and has encountered a passage talking about conflict resolution. It mentions that parties resolve situations with a win-win solution, win-lose situation, or lose-lose situation, and she herself has said that this is probably a win-lose situation, which generally leads to discontent for both parties in the long term. She said that she wants me to present a convincing argument as to why videogames are worthwhile and why I should spend my time playing them.

Should she remain unconvinced, gaming and I will go our separate ways. I'll probably get really into sports or something. *shudder*
Have any of you been in a similar position? Does anyone have any points I can make in gaming's defense? What about particular games that might convince her of their worth or at least their innocuousness?

Sorry man, you are hosed.

You need to prove why videogames are worthwhile? Well, they're not. Neither is watching TV, reading fiction, fly fishing, watching sport, DnD, LARP or sport hunting.

Anything that exists for entertainment is inherently not worthwhile.

You are a student, a teacher and a devout person. Your life is full of worthwhile activities. Sometimes you need to just get home and do something pointless and entertaining.

I had a similar experience with my ex-girlfriend, who I thought I was going to marry. Dodged the bullet there. She resented my game time because it was keeping me away from her. It is pretty anti-social, especially around a person who doesn't partake.

And your list of points of disagreement reads like it's out of the Jack Thompson handbook of 'Videogames are evil despite the total lack of proof suggesting this.'

Sadly, she seems totally shut off. You won't convince her, she will resent it when you game.

Relationships don't deal well with ultimatums, she's given you one that's impossible. What you should do, but it's an ultimatum, is get her to provide credible proof that anything in this list

POINTS OF DISAGREEMENT:
Video gaming is an inherently anti-social enterprise.
Video gaming produces socially maladjusted individuals, and most adult gamers are "basement dwellers."
Video gaming is a waste of time.
Video gaming is a childish enterprise that most adults find infantile.
Video gaming isn't fun, just addictive.
Video gaming is an escapist (in the bad sense of the word) enterprise in a way that books or movies aren't.
All games have objectionable content.

is valid.

I mean, let's break this list down

Video gaming is an inherently anti-social enterprise.
Co-op, multiplayer? Definitely not valid.

Video gaming produces socially maladjusted individuals, and most adult gamers are "basement dwellers."
Are you a socially maladjusted basement dweller? If not, this is provable to be false. If yes, why did she marry you?

Video gaming is a waste of time.
Honestly, I can't argue with that, but it's equally valid for all entertainment.

Video gaming is a childish enterprise that most adults find infantile.
Stats? Isn't the average age of a gamer 30, or something like that? A big chunk ofr gamers are between 21 and 35. Most is just not true in the 21st century.

Video gaming isn't fun, just addictive.
Define fun. You haven't played games in ages. They say and addict can't go 7 days without a fix, you play a game one every two weeks and she gets in a huff.

Video gaming is an escapist (in the bad sense of the word) enterprise in a way that books or movies aren't.
What? Bad escapist? What? Seriously? That sentence makes no sense. Personal taste, there is nothing objective in that assertion.

All games have objectionable content.

Umm, Mario?

*edit* seriously, there were no posts when I started typing. That's what you get for being longwinded.

Here are some facts.
http://www.pbs.org/kcts/videogamerev...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game

Demographics

The November 2005 Nielsen Active Gamer Study, taking a survey of 2,000 regular gamers, found that the U.S. games market is diversifying. The age group among male players has expanded significantly up into the 25 - 40 age group. For casual online puzzle-style and simple mobile cell phone games, the gender divide is more or less equal between males and females. Females have also been found to show an attraction to online multi-player games where there is a communal experience.[citation needed] More recently there has been a growing segment of female players engaged with the aggressive style of games historically considered to fall within traditionally male genres (e.g., first-person shooters). According to the ESRB almost 41% of PC gamers are women.[34]

When comparing today’s industry climate with that of 20 years ago, women and many adults are more inclined to be using products in the industry. While the market for teen and young adult men is still a strong market, it is the other demographics which are posting significant growth. In 2008, the average American gamer has been playing for 12 years, and is now, on average, 35 years of age.[35]

I was going to write out a big point-by-point rebuttal to your wife's arguments, but in the end I think you should just tell her that this is something you enjoy doing in your spare time. If she doesn't respect you enough to let you choose your own leisure activities then you guys have bigger problems in my opinion.

MrDeVil909, thanks for saving me the trouble of typing all that stuff out. The bare fact is that no matter how she tries to dress her position up as some sort of rational conclusion that you could talk her out of with the right argument, it is inherently unreasonable.

Also, if gaming is bad because it's antisocial then your wife should probably stop reading books.

I have to echo what some others have said before me in saying that this is a bigger issue than just video games. This is an issue that your wife has to deal with more than you. She needs to be able to let you have your time, your hobbies, and as long as they are not harmful to you, or taking you away from the family, then she needs to butt out. The fact that you are even willing to put your hobby on hiatus is proof that you love your wife, and want her to be ok with what you decide to do in your free time. You do have to make sure that you take a stand on this issue though. Right now it will be difficult. Since you are freshly married, your wife wants 100% of your undivided attention. I went through a similar period where if I wanted to play a game, I would feel guilty because I know my wife wanted me to hang out with her. As we have both grown, she now understands that me wanting to play a game does not equate me not wanting to be with her. It sounds like with your wife, it may be a much larger challenge to get her to accept your hobby, but that is what I would try and do. Giving up gaming, or any other hobby, because your wife thinks it is stupid will end in the win-lose situation and will eventually turn into a lose-lose. So, hold onto your gaming. In order for a marriage to work, you both need some me time. Don't let go of yours.

farley3k wrote:

My wife strongly dislikes video games but I hate to say it this seems like a bigger issue. It doesn't matter if she likes them it matters whether you have a right to do things that you enjoy. When you start getting into sports what will happen when she doesn't like the people you play basketball with? Just quit the league? I could go on with examples but the thing is it is no very respectful for her to force you to give up something you enjoy just because she doesn't see the point.

This is what jumps out at me right away.

Sarcophagus wrote:

POINTS OF DISAGREEMENT:
Video gaming is an inherently anti-social enterprise. Maybe. I play games for escapism while others play to interact. It's no different than reading a book or playing a team sport.
Video gaming produces socially maladjusted individuals, and most adult gamers are "basement dwellers." You're a gamer and you're married. She thought enough of you to marry you despite your gaming habit.
Video gaming is a waste of time. Is it really? I know I'm thinking on a few different levels when gaming. Depends on what you are playing. Hard to argue with someone who takes this stance about anything.
Video gaming is a childish enterprise that most adults find infantile.Who? What is most adults? This website features several thousand regular posters and they certainly don't find gaming infantile.
Video gaming isn't fun, just addictive.Yeah...bullsh*t. Blanket statement.
Video gaming is an escapist (in the bad sense of the word) enterprise in a way that books or movies aren't.How so? How is it any different? Many games take the same time to finish as a book.
All games have objectionable content. All Asians are bad drivers.

Edit: Mr.Devil we're like THIS *points at my head then your head*

Vector wrote:

Edit: Mr.Devil we're like THIS *points at my head then your head*

Hey you tagged me, did you not? We clearly have something creepily in common. :p

I am very adamant about not changing my life for anybody but me. I married my wife and she was a smoker and I was not. For the first 3 years of our marriage I tried to get her to quit. She didn't. It became a major ocntention between us until she decided to change for her and I supported her every step of the way, even when she was going through the withdrawls and made the tirad she gave me at child birth seem like a sunday sermon.

I am not saying be belligerent to her about it, but don't just roll over. You really do need to talk about this and get it resolved. farley3k did say it best with if you take up sports and she doesn't like who you play with, is she going to say that you can't do that either? She knew you played video games while you were courting her, how can she expect you to just drop something that you like to do just because you got married? There needs to be a compromise. If there can't, then you really need to take a close look within yourself and see if you can change yourself for the person you love or realize that your marital bliss may not be so blissful.

Forgive me if I sound so black and white with this. Like I said before I have a very strong view of this, due to personal experience and growing up with a mom that tried to force my father to change and it not working out to well.

MrDeVil909 wrote:
Vector wrote:

Edit: Mr.Devil we're like THIS *points at my head then your head*

Hey you tagged me, did you not? We clearly have something creepily in common. :p

We each come from former Colonies. Gotta stick together.

Sounds like a tough spot. I'm a little concerned as to why the onus is entirely on you. I also despise self-help books... I don't think I would let her keep this in that rather convenient-for-her container of win-lose. It signals to me that she's gearing up to have an excuse not to listen.

My advice would be to keep it out of the realm of justifying video games to her (something that is likely to just give her grounds to shut you down, as this whole argument is opinion-based) and coming to common ground based on your relationship. Focus on the effect video games has in that arena. Do video games themselves cause undue stress/neglect/regret, etc. between you, or is it merely her disapproval and the argument that causes problems? Take it into the realm of the practical, too, such as whether or not things are being neglected around the house, etc.

It sounds to me like she has more of a problem with gaming itself than she does with you playing games. It may not always be smart to point out where she's wrong... but there's risk no matter what. Tread lightly.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

My wife thinks gaming is stupid, but she eventually recognized that it's "my stupid", for lack of a better term, and she let it go. I game almost every night; she goes to bed early, as she gets up at 5 or some godawful hour, I go downstairs and mash buttons. As long as I'm skipping out on household responsibilities and goofing off constantly, it's fine. I know she'd prefer I had another hobby, but I have this one, and she accepts that.

I'd love to get to this point. I'm okay with the fact that we'll probably never play games together. But I'd like to get to the point where we can both enjoy our hobbies separately.

Part of it might be the newlywed thing. At first, I think that we both bought a common newlywed misconception: the idea that married people should have 100% agreement on everything and that all leisure time should be spent together doing things we both enjoy. In general, I still think it's healthy to spend a good deal of our leisure time together doing whatever (not an innuendo, sickos).

Maybe it's newlywed optimism as well, but I really think that we can find some common ground on this issue. She's very reasonable in most areas, she's just vehement on this issue.

Really good stuff here, guys (and gals, if any are chiming in).

GWJ SAVED MY MARRIAGE!!!

MrDeVil909 wrote:

Anything that exists for entertainment is inherently not worthwhile.

Strongly disagree with this point. Even if there are no other redeeming qualities, enjoyment is a worthwhile pursuit in its own right (not to the exclusion of other pursuits, but that applies to pretty much any activity).

*Legion* wrote:
Sarcophagus wrote:

I want to know how other gamers with disapproving wives make gaming work within the context of a marriage.

By having respect for each other's interests.

Your wife thinking that your hobbies have to go through her personal vetting process is an issue of respect (or lack of), not an issue of video games.

Strongly agree with this one.

I'll point Mrs. Dim at this thread and see if she has any input. Who knows, maybe she'll finally register for an account.

muttonchop wrote:

I was going to write out a big point-by-point rebuttal to your wife's arguments, but in the end I think you should just tell her that this is something you enjoy doing in your spare time. If she doesn't respect you enough to let you choose your own leisure activities then you guys have bigger problems in my opinion.

This.

To me, this sounds like a control issue that's just the tip of a bigger iceberg. Have you told her anything that's off limits for her leisure time activities?

It also scare the crap out of me as a long time single guy that's been dating someone 5 years and is pretty close to getting married. I don't see this much in my own relationship, although my gf probably thinks games are silly. I don't want a relationship that I can't feel OK about doing silly/fun things for my own enjoyment.

Sarcophagus wrote:

She said that she wants me to present a convincing argument as to why videogames are worthwhile and why I should spend my time playing them.

Because they're fun and you enjoy them? Seriously, why do you need more reason than that? They are entertainment media, they provide relaxation, stimulation, accomplishment, etc. They're fun.
I don't mean to be a jerk, but how did you guys get all the way through the courting process without her realizing that you are a person who enjoys video games? Seems like that's something that should have been in evidence before the whole marriage thing. Consoles on the entertainment center are usually a dead giveaway. (Funny story, the girl I'm dating right now brought me a video game on our first date. A mutual friend picked it up for me and had her pass it off on our first date. But I digress.)

The stereotype of basement dweller gamers has been largely disproved, I think. All you have to do is take a look around this forum and see how many gamers with varied and healthy interests there are. We've got people that enjoy camping, boating, biking, climbing, running, martial arts, sculpting, painting, cooking, and on and on. I just don't see how it can be any more harmful than sitting down on the couch with a book, or watching football, or doing a puzzle. They don't actually accomplish anything except in the abstract.

Short version: Get new wife

Surely you can find something she does in her spare time that is a ridiculous waste of time, no? You got to be able to point to something and say, "Sure, I play video games, but how is that any different than you [shopping, talking on the phone with friends, watching Project Runway, etc., etc.]

I say screw this defense stuff. ATTACK! ATTACK! ATTACK!

Also, since you're both Church-goers, I'd point out that God would never have let designers create video games if He didn't intend that they should be played occasionally.

Mex wrote:

Short version: Get new wife

Ever the eloquent one aren't we Mex?

We've all dealt with a non-gamer in our lives questioning our habit at some point or another. At this point, I've gotten my argument down pat.

1) I'm a productive member of society with a full time job, a wife, a son, and a dog who owns his home.
2) I don't play violent games in front of children. Ever. After bed time? You betcha!
3) I spend the same amount of money on my video game habit every month that many of my contemporaries spend on their golf game.
4) I'm a happier and more pleasant person to be around when I enjoy my leisure time.
5) I don't question or disapprove of your hobbies, don't do it to mine.

Now, the fact that it's your wife you're having this discussion with does make the situation a little more volatile. But, bottom line, how does your game time affect her? When my wife and I got together, she knew I was a gamer. While she didn't want to take that away from me, we did compromise to make sure we were both respectful of each others needs. So, I play after she goes to bed, or in the morning when she's asleep. In the rare times I play when we're both around and awake, it's because she's working or busy and doesn't want to spend time with me. There's the bottom line for us: we've made it so that my gaming has no impact on her at all. If anything, she feels the positive impact of me being in a better mood thanks to my game time.

I'll never forget one of the greatest gifts she ever gave me. There had been mass layoffs at my job, I was behind on many, many projects, and there was more than a little family drama going on in our lives. Early in the morning, she woke me up, and said "Babe, I know you've been in a funk, and it's sucked lately. I bought you this Gamestop gift card, I'm taking the baby, and I'm going to be at my Mom's all day. When I get home tonight, be in a good mood." Best. Gift. Ever.

Demonicmaster wrote:
Mex wrote:

Short version: Get new wife

Ever the eloquent one aren't we Mex?

Mex's charm knows no bounds. While we're here discussing marriage & gaming while attempting to help a fellow goodjer he's out there banging anything with legs AND play TF2. Truly a god.

Sounds like a tough problem to crack. I'd like to address some of the points of disagreement, because I largely think they're misguided/misinformed.

Video gaming is an inherently anti-social enterprise.

So is reading a book. Does she read books? Watching a TV show that your spouse is not interested in is equally anti-social.
Also, single-player games are inherently anti-social. Multiplayer is the precise opposite.

Video gaming produces socially maladjusted individuals, and most adult gamers are "basement dwellers."

Why does she feel this way? Does she know a lot of basement-dwelling gamer adults? Because I sure as heck know a helluva lot of well adjusted adult gamers with vibrant social lives. I guess I'm wondering where this preconception comes from.
Yes, some adult gamers are basement dwellers, but there's a lot that aren't. Unless she's worried about gaming turning *you* into a basement dweller, I'm not sure I see that this is relevant. For instance, many TV viewers are unhealthy couch potatoes. This doesn't mean that neither of you should watch TV though, does it?

Video gaming is a waste of time.

So is watching TV, so is reading a book, so is going for a walk around the park. So is nearly any hobby. I would hazard a guess that her hobbies are just as much a waste of time.

Video gaming is a childish enterprise that most adults find infantile.

Firstly, there's a lot of adults that *don't* find it infantile. Secondly, so what if some people think it's childish. I think that following a sports team is childish, but I don't begrudge other adults doing it.

Video gaming isn't fun, just addictive.

How does she know what other people find fun? Fun is subjective. There's literally *thousands* of things that other people think is fun, that I don't, from watching sports, to rock climbing, to crochet. Just because I don't think they're fun, doesn't mean that they're not to others.

Video gaming is an escapist (in the bad sense of the word) enterprise in a way that books or movies aren't.

What's the rationale for this? At worst, they're just as escapist as books and movies. All are ways to immerse yourself in a fictional world.
More to the point what's the issue with escapism? Is reading a book 'bad', because you're not thinking about real life?

All games have objectionable content.

Unless the person saying this has viewed every game, this is as ludicrous as me saying that every book ever written features a crocodile. Does Words With Friends have objectionable content? What about Peggle?
Some games have objectionable content, it's true, but to blanket apply that is a silly as saying that because SAW is objectionable, that you shouldn't watch *any* movies.

Sarcophagus wrote:

I'd love to get to this point. I'm okay with the fact that we'll probably never play games together. But I'd like to get to the point where we can both enjoy our hobbies separately.

Part of it might be the newlywed thing. At first, I think that we both bought a common newlywed misconception: the idea that married people should have 100% agreement on everything and that all leisure time should be spent together doing things we both enjoy. In general, I still think it's healthy to spend a good deal of our leisure time together doing whatever (not an innuendo, sickos).

I think you hit a key issue here. In a healthy long-term relationship, both partners should have hobbies and interests and even some friends that are separate from the partner. You need to get to this understanding or your marriage is doomed to be miserable.

Once you get there, it should be okay that you do things she thinks are stupid and maybe antisocial. She should probably have a stupid antisocial hobby that you will not care for.

It might help psychologically to show that your playing is/can be limited and will not creep up to take over your life. Maybe have "game time"-- Saturday morning before noon and Thursday evening before 10pm, and those are the only times you play, no more than ten hours a week-- or whatever works for you. I could be projecting, though. My wife never had a problem with video games per se, but she did have a problem with me playing them way too long sometimes.

I'm not able to relate to your situation. I wish you the best of luck. I'm going to opine here purely on what you've given, as I really have had no experience with people who think this way.

Her views of gaming in general seem pretty outdated and, based on how you've described her opinions, either garnered from other people or her limited exposure to sensationalist media since she's so vehement about not exposing herself to them. She seems pretty set in this opinion and stubborn about changing it to come to some middle ground. Even if you came to her with a very rational explanation as to how some games are great for improving memory and problem-solving (Sudoku, World of Goo, Brain Age, Bookworm, etc), things like GTA3 will still haunt her and present her with fodder for counter-argument.

As for video games being the source of harm for her students, she's directing her blame at a tangible, easy to target symptom instead of the more difficult to poin-point, intangible cause (being the "little or no parental supervision." It's not the video games that are making bad children. It's bad parents). Physically-manifested scapegoats are easy to compartmentalize and point fingers at than a systemic failure by many absentee or technologically-unsavvy parents to understand the mature, adult content their children are exposed to, be it Modern Warfare 2 or Laurell K. Hamilton books.

The list of disagreements can all be argued for books or movies, as was mentioned above, yet she's unwilling to apply it because it presents a huge hole in her logic. If you can't get over that hurdle with her, then I'm not sure how rationally you can argue the case for gaming not being inherently evil.

I think console systems like the Wii are great because many of the games are inherently social and "clean." Not to mention the joy of Netflix! The level of commitment in the games is very casual, and I think you'd have better luck convincing her of those things aren't evil than, say, the PC or the 360.

This part is none of my business, but I think what may be stopping any further discussion on gaming is that you two have created a pattern were you are perceived as "doing it behind her back" even though you cop to it later. Some of what may be backing up her negative feelings is the tension being caused by you doing something you are made to feel guilty about (so it must be wrong, eh?) and keeping it from her until she's put into this awkward position of being the "bad guy" inquisitor. Until you can address this awkward pattern the two of you have developed objectively, it will be difficult for you to break out of this guilt-cycle you're in and logically come to an agreement that will be comfortable for both of you.

After Mystic-Violet edit:
What she said. All of it. And said better than I ever could (as usual).

My eyes rolled hard to the back of my head that I am currently typing blind ON MY IPHONE.

Sorry, but situations like this really get on my nerves.

farley3k wrote:

It doesn't matter if she likes them it matters whether you have a right to do things that you enjoy.

^ This is it right here. Full stop. Do not pass "Go." One does not give up being an individual after the wedding.

Marriage is a partnership between two individuals. You both will be working towards the greater good of the family rather than each other. A couple won't agree on everything but this bond is about communication, discussion, compromise and sometimes, yes, one may have to conceed to the others' argument. It's okay to be mistaken sometimes.

But, from what was posted, she has made the decision for both of you and feels that it is final unless you present a compelling argument to contiue enjoying your hobby. I understand trying to convince her that you need a $2000 laptop or putting aside a Friday night to 10 man Icecrown but not being allowed to play games at all? How is that any different from my husband telling me that I can't see the girls anymore, what I can and cannot wear outside or to stop drawing because it's a waste of time? Actually, how is this any different from my husband telling me that I can't play video games? You know what would happen to him if he tried any of the above?

Sorry dude but, like the others said, you have much bigger problems. She knew about your hobbies before marriage so this is too little, too late.

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