Master of Orion 1 + 2 on GOG

I like letting the Stellar Converter do my diplomatic negotiations.

Geeze, so my game today, I'm doing ok, actually had a nice star system near me i could colonize. Well not too far along in to the game a giant space eel camps my main star system so i can't send food to any other system. The 6 medium ships I had there got ate up and spit up immediately by this creature. So I 'm trying to build bigger ships (50+ turns to build) and a crystal life form hits one system and totally wipes my colony. So about 100 turns later I have a fighter and 2 of the next level down ships, close to maybe hurting the eel, when the antares fleet comes in and blows them up and my main colony.

I think I'll be turning the difficulty to easy next game...

karmajay wrote:

I think I'll be turning the difficulty to easy next game...

Sometimes you just get hit by a load of bad luck. You just got hit by a bunch of random events (I just had Antarans wipe out my homeworld). I don't know how much of that was affected by your difficulty though. Alternatively, you could turn off Antaran attacks and random events.

karmajay wrote:

Well not too far along in to the game a giant space eel camps my main star system so i can't send food to any other system. The 6 medium ships I had there got ate up and spit up immediately by this creature. So I 'm trying to build bigger ships (50+ turns to build) and a crystal life form hits one system and totally wipes my colony.

I guess it's time for you to look at my spoiler on page 4 ;). But there is a chance you'll figure it out yourself because another person menssioned a similar ship build.

Here is a general hint:
The main problem with space creatures is that they generally obliterate anything that gets close to them. Bigger ships may not last much longer against them .

Quintin_Stone wrote:

Alternatively, you could turn off Antaran attacks and random events.

I wouldn't recommend that in the long run.It makes the game interesting and as I said if you are lucky you can gain a big advantage capturing Antaran ships.

Niseg wrote:
Quintin_Stone wrote:

Alternatively, you could turn off Antaran attacks and random events.

I wouldn't recommend that in the long run.It makes the game interesting and as I said if you are lucky you can gain a big advantage capturing Antaran ships.

Everytime I've captured an Antaran ship its blown up in my face, saying something like they destroy the ship rather than let it be captured.

Zaque wrote:

Everytime I've captured an Antaran ship its blown up in my face, saying something like they destroy the ship rather than let it be captured.

They can be captured but it's a matter of luck. You should try capturing it all in 1 turn because I think if it's immobile for longer than that they'll self destruct . I think that your hand to hand ability plays a part in calculating that chance. I bet someone already figured out all the formulas.

Is there a way to turn off the voting? It's really irritating to be out voted, have someone be elected Master of All, and then have to fight the entire galaxy.

Zaque wrote:

Everytime I've captured an Antaran ship its blown up in my face, saying something like they destroy the ship rather than let it be captured.

Antaran ships have quantum detonators, which have a high chance of exploding if they're captured.

Nevin73 wrote:

Is there a way to turn off the voting? It's really irritating to be out voted, have someone be elected Master of All, and then have to fight the entire galaxy.

Nope, it's one of the possible methods of victory. Getting good relations with other races is a must in this game and so is playing the other races off each other.

One of the many things I forgot I loved about this game is how much the strategy changes over the course of a match. It seems like there's always this back and forth between ships and planets, missiles and direct fire weapons; sometimes big ships make sense and sometimes small ones do; missile bases rule until stargates come in and make it so you can defend your whole empire with a fleet and missile bases don't count for as much.

I love how the tech tree isn't just a way to get an advantage on the opponents by doing more damage, it's a way to counter their strategy by assembling ships that neutralize the opponents' weapons, sometimes almost entirely.

I was wondering why the Klackons not only stopped sending ineffectual small bombers after me, but stopped sending bombers at all--they were building virtually missile proof large black hole generator ships to counteract my well-stocked planets!

I like how the different races interact and play. It's downright surprising that the most powerful race up to Large Galaxies is Gnolam, but what can you do? Mercantilism for the win.

I'd become far too reliant on the Creative racial trait. I spent a long long time playing custom races and I picked that all the time because it is a very powerful trait. I just wrapped up the first game in years where I researched everything to the end and didn't have every tech. This is because at the end, it was just me and the Gnolams and I went to war when I decided my fleet was better and because he kept stealing my Orion techs. IMAGE(http://rps.net/QS/Images/Smilies/emot-rant.gif)

He had Star Fortresses and I did not. There were a bunch of tech thefts going on back and forth (he stole blackhole generators, doomstar construction, star gates, I stole zeon missiles, barrier shields). Neither of us had Stellar Converters! But once he split his fleet and I destroyed one half, the game was effectively over. I reduced him down to 1 system with slash & burn tactics (bomb colony so he can't just reclaim it after my fleet moves on) and then I murdered the Antarans.

It's kind of annoying that you can't go back and research a tech on a tree node that you missed the first time around.

As for general advice, population is everything in MoO2. A large population is also important for preventing the AI from claiming an easy diplomatic victory.

For those of you wanting specific strategy tips, the Strategy Wiki has a nice set of articles about the game. Among other things, it lists the recommended tech picks for non-Creative races:

http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Master_...

Quintin_Stone wrote:

I'd become far too reliant on the Creative racial trait. I spent a long long time playing custom races and I picked that all the time because it is a very powerful trait. I just wrapped up the first game in years where I researched everything to the end and didn't have every tech. This is because at the end, it was just me and the Gnolams and I went to war when I decided my fleet was better and because he kept stealing my Orion techs. IMAGE(http://rps.net/QS/Images/Smilies/emot-rant.gif)

He had Star Fortresses and I did not. There were a bunch of tech thefts going on back and forth (he stole blackhole generators, doomstar construction, star gates, I stole zeon missiles, barrier shields). Neither of us had Stellar Converters! But once he split his fleet and I destroyed one half, the game was effectively over. I reduced him down to 1 system with slash & burn tactics (bomb colony so he can't just reclaim it after my fleet moves on) and then I murdered the Antarans.

It's kind of annoying that you can't go back and research a tech on a tree node that you missed the first time around.

That creative trait mumbo jumbo is one of the big reasons I prefer MoO actually.

Creative is nice, but hardly necessary. There are a few "must have" techs, and the rest can be picked to suit your playstyle and racial traits. In my opinion, the most powerful trait is Subterranean.

In my opinion, the most powerful trait in SP is Fantastic Traders, possibly when married to Money Boost. Hard to leverage in Huge Galaxies, but dominating at Large or Medium. Still powerful at Small.

You know, the only way to settle all this powerful trait arguments is to organize a multiplayer game to prove them out. Just saying.

Anyone interested in trying this out over Hamachi?

Hehe. I have no experience whatsoever in MP, and Gnolam whoring only really works on AI. Against AI, having a bunch of money at the start of the game is killer. Against other players, it's a marginal advantage at best.

A Sins-like MOO2 update focusing on MP play would be really, really awesome.

Yeah, with the exception of a few hot-seat matches with friends, I mostly just play against the AI. Most of my tactics probably wouldn't work too well against an intelligent opponent.

muttonchop wrote:

Creative is nice, but hardly necessary. There are a few "must have" techs, and the rest can be picked to suit your playstyle and racial traits. In my opinion, the most powerful trait is Subterranean.

I won, proving that it's not necessary.

However, I didn't realize how broken tech trading was. I'd bring up an audience with another race and the Exchange Tech option would be grayed out. "How can that be?" I'd ask myself. "I know we each have techs the other does not." So I'd check the Demand Tech list and it was long. I'd check the Gift Tech list and it was long. I'd exit the audience and go back in and eventually it would be enabled again.

And then of course that Gnolam prick kept asking for the Blackhole Generator for everything.

I'm playing in a large "young" galaxy. Its interesting because the balance of power in this game hinges on who controls the food growing planets, of which there are only a handful. In fact the only 6 terran worlds in the galaxy were the homeworlds. Without a food source an entire race can be reduced to scraping out a pitiful existence on a handful of planets just because they can't feed a larger population.

I got really damn lucky and picked up a hero who gave me terraformation, so I'm ready to rock.

Be wary of Alliances. The benefit is that the AIs generally respect alliance members, so you worry less about them attacking you, and you can ask your partner to declare war on anyone who you're at war with. The drawback is that the AI gets into a lot of fights, some very temporary, and will come to you a lot asking you to declare war on your trading partners. You can always refuse though, which will dissolve the alliance and give you a big diplo hit against your former partner, of course.

When designing ships, do not neglect your point defenses! They will shoot down fighters, bombers, and missiles. And don't forget to make them f.ext or 360. I recently developed an entire fleet that I'd mistakenly made point defenses only forward firing (both Titans and Doomstars). IMAGE(http://rps.net/QS/Images/Smilies/blush.gif)

In some cases, it may be advisable to retrofit Cruisers to carry some normal beam weapons and lots of PD weapons to act as interference against such missiles and fighters, if you mistakenly forgot to put them on your Battleships. In a close fight, you can always self-destruct the smaller ships to take out Fighters and Missiles so your big ships can survive to win the day.

Tamren wrote:

I'm playing in a large "young" galaxy. Its interesting because the balance of power in this game hinges on who controls the food growing planets, of which there are only a handful. In fact the only 6 terran worlds in the galaxy were the homeworlds. Without a food source an entire race can be reduced to scraping out a pitiful existence on a handful of planets just because they can't feed a larger population.

I got really damn lucky and picked up a hero who gave me terraformation, so I'm ready to rock.

And this is one of my issues with the game. Some of the leaders can just be too powerful early in the game, ie the megaweathy ones, and the ones that give you free high level techs (especially if you have a famous + megaweathy leader already). I remember one game where I got terraforming and autolabs before I had even gotten soil enhancement and holo simulators.

BTW can anyone explain to me why democracy is worth 7 points?

Zaque wrote:

BTW can anyone explain to me why democracy is worth 7 points?

Doesn't it come with a respectable research boost?

It really depends on what you want your race to do. Democracy gives huge bonuses to research and tax collecting so its easier to research the nice toys and have the money to buy them. Apparently it also gives an unlisted bonus to all trade and research treaties.

Can anyone give me some tips on ship building? All of my designs turn out to be crap. I think my problem is that i try to mix too many weapon types. Ie putting missiles beams and interceptors on the same ship. These hybrids never seem to work as well as specialized ships. But then the Ai ships I fight have a pretty diverse weapons load so I don't know what I'm doing wrong. So far this is what I know:

All ships:
- Battle pods = must have once economy is up to speed.
- Reinforced structure = must have period
- Heavy armour = not as good as reinforced armour, but helpful on the bigger ships.

Beam ships:
- Battle computer = must
- Heavy mounts = must
- Point defences = work better on beam ships thanks to battle computer

Missile ships:
- Fast missile racks = must have if you can get them, overwhelms point defences
- Scrap computer to save costs.
- Fewer shots per launcher means faster attacks, but takes up more room per missile
- Antimissle rockets work better on missile ships because you don't need a targetting computer.

Things I'm not yet clear on:
- What do they mean by "level of refinement". if I need that for mass drivers, does that mean I have to research the tech that comes after mass drivers?
- What are the specific uses for autofire, armour piercing, MIRV, ECCM etc.
- Pros and cons of different ship sizes. Frigates seem useless to me.
- How to use fighter craft and shuttles properly.
- How to make a good boarding/capture vessel.

Zaque wrote:

BTW can anyone explain to me why democracy is worth 7 points?

From this FAQ:

Democracy (7)
- "Agent" (defensive) spies have a -10% penalty.
- All research increased by +50%.
- All Income (taxes, etc.) increased by +50%.
- Four turns to assimilate a captured colony.
- You are not allowed to "eradicate" (kill one per turn) a captured colony's population.
- If (your) capital is captured, -20% morale penalty until a new capital is built.

+50% research is a pretty hefty boost.

Tamren wrote:

Things I'm not yet clear on:
- What do they mean by "level of refinement". if I need that for mass drivers, does that mean I have to research the tech that comes after mass drivers?
- What are the specific uses for autofire, armour piercing, MIRV, ECCM etc.
- Pros and cons of different ship sizes. Frigates seem useless to me.
- How to use fighter craft and shuttles properly.
- How to make a good boarding/capture vessel.

First, as you noted, don't mix and match, specialize. Typically, I make three types of ships. Stand off carriers - they have the interceptors, anti-missile rockets and later on, the warp suppressors. Close in assault boats - a 'spinal mount' heavy gun or two, a few non-heavy beams and point defense weapons, make more these, since they are the ones that die the most. And bombards - missile boats with nothing but missiles and a few point defense weapons. Since everything has some point defense, preferably a mix of PD guns and antimissile rockets, the fleet can support each other to shoot down incoming missiles and fighters.

Frigates are mostly useless, except for early on. Swarms of frigates with one or two launchers are barely better than nothing. Its an emergency tactic, to clear out aliens that attack before you are ready to start building cruisers.

Levels of refinement: when you research a tech, you get it at the basic level. As you continue to research tech in that same tree, the weapons from the previous levels in that same tree get better. Research a few more levels after you get mass drivers, and you will find your mass drivers become smaller, with more options. This keeps (most) weapons useful for most of the game.

The options such as MIRV, autofire, etc, are tough to summarize. MIRVs let you get a lot more 'punch' out of earlier missile types. Autofire helps with your point defense weapons, if you try to put it on your larger mounts, you will need better computers and targeting aids to counter the to-hit penalty. ECCM doesn't really help that much, unless you notice your missiles are doing poor damage. Say, against the Antarens.

Fighters, mass them, have the carriers stand off (i.e. don't put guns on them, so if you let the computer run the fight, they don't charge in to the melee). Boarding shuttles, mass them, have the carriers stand off while a dedicated capture ship closes in to shoot the enemy with a mix of shield killing weapons and neutron blasters - the blasters kill off the marines defending the alien ship. Once you get transporters, ditch the shuttles unless you are trying to capture Antarens (good luck there). Mostly, if I worry about capturing ships, its to take out the starbases defending planets. A typical capture ship will have heavy defenses, boosted engines and few guns - probably just neutron blasters. It will not have shuttles, since those eat up too much space.

As far as which traits are the best, I never take Charismatic + Lucky, because it makes the game way too easy. Everyone likes you, all the 'bad' events happen to someone else, and the Antarens overlook you for most of the game, until you finally pull out ahead. Its biggest problem, you end up having to abstain a lot or you get elected ruler of the galaxy.

The only tech I rate as a 'must have' is battle pods. Its so painful trying to build a fleet without them.

And I agree, stay out of alliances. All they do is suck you into war after war, and its damn irritating to have to declare war on your second strongest ally because your first strongest ally insists. Odds are good two turns later they will kiss and make up, but you? You are stuck in that war, without support, and your ex-friend will refuse to make peace with you.

Tamren wrote:

It really depends on what you want your race to do. Democracy gives huge bonuses to research and tax collecting so its easier to research the nice toys and have the money to buy them. Apparently it also gives an unlisted bonus to all trade and research treaties.

Can anyone give me some tips on ship building? All of my designs turn out to be crap. I think my problem is that i try to mix too many weapon types. Ie putting missiles beams and interceptors on the same ship. These hybrids never seem to work as well as specialized ships. But then the Ai ships I fight have a pretty diverse weapons load so I don't know what I'm doing wrong. So far this is what I know:

All ships:
- Battle pods = must have once economy is up to speed.
- Reinforced structure = must have period
- Heavy armour = not as good as reinforced armour, but helpful on the bigger ships.

Yes, battle pods are a must. I also do heavy armor, but I find that if they're hitting my hull, I'm probably dead anyway.

Tamren wrote:

Beam ships:
- Battle computer = must
- Heavy mounts = must
- Point defences = work better on beam ships thanks to battle computer

I prefer beam ships, as a lot of the time the AI builds ships with a lot of anti-missile rockets and point defense. I mean a ton. Plus a beam death is an instant death. So I put in a battle scanner (as that what you meant by battle computer?) and my main guns are always heavy mount. And frankly, every ship should have point defenses. Every. Ship. Because anti-missile rockets won't do squat against a dozen heavy fighters.

Tamren wrote:

Things I'm not yet clear on:
- What do they mean by "level of refinement". if I need that for mass drivers, does that mean I have to research the tech that comes after mass drivers?

Mass Drivers are in the tech Force Fields 1 (Advanced Magnetism). One level of refinement means you've researched Force Fields 2 (Gravitic Fields) AFAIK. So Force Fields 2 would let you do Armor Piercing with Mass Drivers. Research Force Fields 3 (Magneto Gravitics) and you have 2 levels of refinement and you can apply the Auto Fire modification to your mass drivers.

Tamren wrote:

- What are the specific uses for autofire, armour piercing, MIRV, ECCM etc.

Right-click on the modification and it gives you a decent description of what each does.

Tamren wrote:

- Pros and cons of different ship sizes. Frigates seem useless to me.

Sure, unless it take 60 turns to build a destroyer. Frigates are early game ships and do become obsolete later on. You should build the biggest ship the colony can complete in a reasonable amount of time.

Tamren wrote:

- How to use fighter craft and shuttles properly.

Fighters are pretty much autonomous. If you're going to do fighters, add a lot. Just 1 or 2 are useless.

Shuttles are for boarding...

Tamren wrote:

- How to make a good boarding/capture vessel.

I don't do a lot of capture, so others may have better advice here.

Capturing a ship normally involves several steps:
1) Immobilizing the target
2) Getting close enough to board
3) Your marines killing their marines
4) And hopefully your missing marines won't make your own ship vulnerable to capture!!!

To immobilize a target, you need to target its drive (missiles with Emissions Guidance modification or get lucky enough to have regular damage destroy the drive) or use Tractor Beams. You'll need to hit it with 1 tractor beam per ship size to fully stop it. However, I don't believe you need to immobilize the target if you are using Assault Shuttles or a Transporter.

Getting close enough to board is straight-forward, but of course leaves you vulnerable to getting shot and boarded yourself.

Troop Pods give you more marines, so you'll be more likely to overwhelm the other ship's marines (and fight off invaders with the enemy tried to capture you). Neutron Blasters and Death Rays kill marines. If you kill all the enemy marines before you even board, capture is all but guaranteed.

Security stations make it less likely that your own ships will be captured.

Plasma beam and gyro destabilizer are my musts, in addition to Battle Pods.

I've become a recent convert to cloaking and phased cloaking. A ship with that will not get shot first.

Inertial nullifier means free turning and very hard to hit by enemy beam weapons.

Time warp facilitator lets your ship move and attack twice each turn.

In each fleet, have 1 small cloaked ship with a warp dissipator and a wide area jammer. No weapons.