I couldn't remember whether the IRB took on board all of the new suggested rules...and I still think that S and N hemisphere refs do interpret things slightly differently.
As for your heinous comments about RL, I will allow the excuse of ignorance this once.
Sevens is, unfortunately, utter pony which bears more resemblance to beach rugby, and I certainly wouldn't pay to watch that.
Thats probably true, but all the good dirt happens in the scrums.
Actually, scrum time is well policed by the players. Ruck and mauls can be dirty but the higher up you go the less time players have to commit nasty acts as well as more camera/linesmen to spot them.
And there were never separate laws (not rules, apparently important distinction for some reason) for the North and South. The IRB sets the laws not the national governing bodies. What you are confusing here is three separate issues which are; different start times for season, interpretation of the law, and the Experimental Law Variants or ELVs.
Yes, referees interpret the Super 14 slightly differently that the rest of the world, particularly at the ruck, forward passes and knock on. However at test level they are referred under the same criteria as everyone else. At the level below Super 14, such as the Currie Cup and the Air NZ Cup, they referee the game like the North Hemisphere does.
What you saw over the last couple of years was the introduction of the ELV into Southern rugby first and due to the start time of their season they were playing under a different set of rules than the North. However both Hemispheres played a season under the rules and some were kept but most were dumped.
I'd be interested to hear some thoughts on this but talking to my former playing colleagues from down under the feeling is that the Super 14, while entertaining, does not prepare player for test rugby as well as the European Cup does. France and Ireland both dominate the European Cup and last November they both set the Southern Hemisphere teams home packing. Australia looked really poor, completely incapable of forming a coherent set piece. Next summer will be really interesting
Never completed my European Cup report either but my prediction were close enough:)
I couldn't remember whether the IRB took on board all of the new suggested rules...and I still think that S and N hemisphere refs do interpret things slightly differently.
I'm actually pretty sure everything was dropped of the experimental rules. They didn't rally make much of a change to the way the game was played. They've decided that policing should be better.
Northern refs are definitely more 'by the book' than Southerners, but that should change.
As for your heinous comments about RL, I will allow the excuse of ignorance this once.
Sevens is, unfortunately, utter pony which bears more resemblance to beach rugby, and I certainly wouldn't pay to watch that.
You're right, but I disagree. It is like beach rugby, but I do enjoy it. I wouldn't pay to go to a game, but a day pass at a tournament could be fun.
This weekend it's in Vegas. Part of the drive to broaden the appeal of the game, much like 20 over cricket is intended to do. Purists may not like it, but I think it has a place and a future. Especially if it does end up being an Olympic sport.
*edit* Yep, Axon with his ninja edit has the right of it.
davet010 wrote:Sevens is, unfortunately, utter pony which bears more resemblance to beach rugby, and I certainly wouldn't pay to watch that.
You're right, but I disagree. It is like beach rugby, but I do enjoy it. I wouldn't pay to go to a game, but a day pass at a tournament could be fun.
This weekend it's in Vegas. Part of the drive to broaden the appeal of the game, much like 20 over cricket is intended to do. Purists may not like it, but I think it has a place and a future. Especially if it does end up being an Olympic sport.
Seven is Iron Man Rugby. Those guys are seriously in shape. A sevens tournament is like a cricket match or a baseball game. Booze and food and a game that give you the odd thing to cheer about.
Covering that field with only seven guys must take serious fitness, even with the games being that short. I think it's very good training for loose-forwards and backs as well, the fundamental ball skills needed transfer to the bigger game easily.
One reason we are struggling this year is because most of our top Sevens players have been poached by Super 14 franchises. In the Currie Cup last year the Sevens guys were, sometimes literally, running circles around their opposition. Sevens guys make great full-backs and wings.
They do and they don't. Speedsters and good count attackers are good for your back three but they still need to develop their defense and line kicking that transfer well from Sevens. Ireland doesn't really have a Sevens team and some argue that Leinster and Ireland have some of the best backs in the world. O'Driscoll has never played Sevens, for example.
Looking forward to this weekend, Ireland squares off with France at Stade de France in what many are viewing as the Six nations decider. I'm very worried, very worried indeed. South Africa took our scrum apart in November while France did a job on the Africans at the same time. Last weekend the Italians got the pressure on once and we didn't look comfortable and the France looked impressive up front. This is where the game could be decide, so what out for scrums in the 22 and the France to apply pressure in those situations.
Ireland on the other hand look very strong in the lineout and out wide. Leo Cullen is lucky to get his start but I think we are better off with him that O'Callaghan but I would say that:) Seriously though, from direct experience, Leo is a better lineout operator and equally good at marshaling the set piece. If we can dominate there we have the players out wide to cause some damage.
The French scrum is a monster. They focus on that and the rough stuff, it should be a physical game. Hopefully the Irish finesse can counter it. Good luck to your guys.
Super 14 this weekend, Sharks had a very poor series of pre-season games so I'm worried. We just lost a lot of significant players and don't have an experienced fly-half with Hernandes injured. We have talented youngsters, but I suspect this will be a rebuilding year.
I don't think that super 14 underprepares for tests. Australia's national team is weak at the moment because we folded the competetion that fed into the super 14 so there is no high quality club level rugby here meaning that any player that is not top flight but shows some promise is ripe for picking by the more dominant rugby league.
I understand that Union isn't popular in Australia? I'm sure the administrators figured that the audience wasn't big enough, but it does leave you under-prepared. On the other hand, I think New Zealand and South Africa sometimes overwork their players.
*edit*
So the Hurricanes came from behind to win 34-20 in the first game of the tournament. Ref Stuart Dickinson was very free with the whistle and the Hurricanes capitalised.
Definitely signs of strict new breakdown policing.
*edit again*
Brumbies beat Western Force quite convincingly. 24-15
I managed to watch a fair amount of the game and was very unimpressed. The Aussie teams have promised more running, which we got, but it looked worse than most high-school rugby. Fancy behind the back passes in their own 22, running from deep and then losing possession in the contact and every typical mistake of teams that promise running rugby. It looked distinctly amateurish.
They will need to play far better against the Bulls and the Crusaders. Try a funny pass in your own 22 against either of those teams and you have conceded a try.
Rucks are also looking stagnant because defenders are scared to clear them out.
What's the french for trash-talk? 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/feb/12/france-morgan-parra-ireland-six-nations
I hope Parra has some good health insurance, because if he ends up at the bottom of a ruck he may well be eating a little shoe pie.
Bulls Cheetahs. 51-34 to the Bulls. 9 tries in the game, a potential good sign for the new refereeing, and a scary one for anyone who's not a Bull.
That's the team I love to hate, but they are just so professional and adaptable. It's ridiculous.
Sadly I didn't actually see the game, and I won't see any others this weekend. Dammit, wish I had satellite during rugby season.
Double posting for Rugby Union
I don't think that super 14 underprepares for tests. Australia's national team is weak at the moment because we folded the competetion that fed into the super 14 so there is no high quality club level rugby here meaning that any player that is not top flight but shows some promise is ripe for picking by the more dominant rugby league.
Interesting. I have similar fears in Ireland as we have done something similar. New Zealand, South Africa and France clearly have better structures for producing players. Our problem, just like Australia is we are not producing solid set piece merchants who are difficult to produce and often develop very late.
I hope Parra has some good health insurance, because if he ends up at the bottom of a ruck he may well be eating a little shoe pie.
You better believe that's a paddling. Still when the French show a bit a passion, I get worried.
Second thoughts, this could be a ruse to get us into a tight game. We are like Marty McFly when it come to being called names. A fiendish French plot, perhaps?
The rest of the Super 14 results.
Last minute Waratahs try sinks the Reds. 30-28 It's impressive that the Reds nearly won, Quade Cooper seems to be shrugging off the robbery allegations okay.
Stormers 26 - Lions 13. Disappointing for the Stormers considering they led 26 - 6 at half time. Lions abandoned all structure and Stormers lost composure in the second half to make for a fairly poor quality game.
*sigh*
And the bad new for me. Chiefs scored a last minute penalty against the Sharks to take the game 19 - 18. Very unpleasant conditions in Durban made for a tough game. 32 C temperatures and constant rain meant a lot of ball handling errors. The lead changed hands 3 times in the last 5 minutes. Poor discipline cost both teams, the Sharks getting 2 yellow cards, including John Smit and both sides struggled with the stricter policing.
Six Nations, maybe the French allegations rattled the Irish, it was a fairly one sided game that ended 33 - 10 to France.
the brumbies should be able to put together a good game when they get used to playing together. I think this will be a bad year for the waratahs though. Queensland haven't been close to them for some time. I may have to pretend that the tahs have taken the year off too.
Holy crap!
Reds beat Crusaders 41 - 20. I've slipped into some weird alternate dimension.
Having just seen Hurricanes vs Western Force, and the highlights of that 72-65 laff fest between the Chiefs and the Lions, can I ask a question about the Super 14.
Has tackling been outlawed, or are the players just unable to do it ?
That was some of the worst rugby I have ever seen. In fact, I'm not even sure that it was rugby at all. Certainly the number of forward passes, dodgy lineouts and ludicrous scores just serve to emphasise the point I always made about the NBA....the higher the score, the crapper the sport.
I think the issue is that the players need to get used to the new applications of the rules, especially when it comes to defense and the advantage going to the attacking team.
Players are hesitant to tackle because it doesn't slow down the attackers momentum, it's stupid of course, not tackling isn't to your own advantage at all.
And I agree that some of the skills on display have been laughable. The only team that is consistently quality is the Bulls. *spit* But ball-handling, passing etc etc have been terrible.
The Stormer Waratahs game sounds like it was of a better standard. I missed it though, I was drunk.
Full results from the weekend's Super 14 games.
Stormers 27 - 6 Waratahs
Bulls 50 - 32 Brumbies
Hurricanes 47 - 22 Western Force
Lions 65 - 72 Chiefs
The Sharks 20 - 25 Vodacom Cheetahs :'(
Reds 41 - 20 Crusaders
Highlanders 15 - 19 Blues
My team has lost 2 home games in a row, and is heading off for a 5 week tour of NZ and Oz, I'm not hopeful.
yeah I wonder when the last time the only Australian team to win was the reds.
When was the last time the sharks lost to the cheetahs at home. It doesn't seem long since they were SA's dominant side.
Look, its boogle the black jumper in an aerial fight!
yeah I wonder when the last time the only Australian team to win was the reds.
When was the last time the sharks lost to the cheetahs at home. It doesn't seem long since they were SA's dominant side.
The Aussie games I've seen recently have really not impressed me. They are trying too hard to run everything and not focus on the fundamentals of rugby union. Having said that, the Reds did exactly that, but their ball skills are really good, and they must have some of the fastest backs in the sport. Quade Cooper is a phenomenon.
Of course I can criticize the Aussie teams because my team is even worse. Last time we lost to the Cheetahs on the Shark Tank was 2007, they are our bogey team, but usually only when we play in Bloemfontein.
Look, its boogle the black jumper in an aerial fight!
Nice lift, but it looks like it's going down the red side, your Hooker needs practice. It really is a shame you didn't come to study in Pretoria. An American playing rugby, you would have been very popular. 
*edit*
Interesting, if the Aussie media is questioning the amount of tries and running, there's a problem.
High Chiefs' score raises rules queries
The Chiefs' 72-65 win over the Lions in an Investec Bank Super 14 rugby match which produced a record 18 tries has raised questions over whether new rule interpretations err too much in favour of attacking teams.The second-round match in Johannesburg on Friday was the highest-scoring in Super rugby history, eclipsing the 118 points scored when Natal, now the Sharks, beat the Highlanders 75-43 in Durban in 1997.
Each team on Friday scored nine tries - beating the previous single match record of 17 tries - and the second half produced 85 points, leaving observers divided over whether the match was an aberration or a sign new rulings are strangling defence.
Waikato coach Ian Foster was among those who saw the match as an anomaly.
"It's one of those games in some ways you just have to enjoy it for what it was and hope those sort of games don't happen too often," Foster said.
"It was at altitude, it was hot and I think our fatigue factor in that last quarter helped them score those last three or four tries. It's not a usual game of rugby.
"Last year, we had a 63-34 game against the Blues and it sort of felt similar to that. So I'm not sure it's totally foreign to rugby but clearly I don't think it's going to be a weekly occurrence."
The match was the most glaring reflection of a high-scoring trend in the second round of this year's tournament.
In four out of seven weekend matches, winning teams scored more than 40 points. A total of 52 tries were scored at a rate of seven per match and 461 points at an average of 65 per game. The second round in 2009 produced 35 tries and 288 points at 41 points per match.
Super 14 officials are working with referees to address acknowledged "problem areas" in the game - principally the tackled ball, the scrum and offside play at kick returns - which impede continuity, inhibit attack or yield an advantage to defensive teams.
Marc Hinton, a Fairfax columnist, questioned whether matches such as Friday's were good for rugby. Hinton said rule interpretations which sought to improve the quality of matches may have gone too far.
"After sitting through a 2009 rugby season that got progressively more stodgy, one-dimensional and downright boring, the southern hemisphere superpowers have decided to see if they can give things a little nudge in the right direction," Hinton said.
"But judging by Jo'burg... they may just have unleashed a monster."
In other high-scoring second-round matches South Africa's Bulls reached 50 points for the second-straight week, beating the ACT Brumbies 50-32 to go to the top of the standings.
The Hurricanes, who managed only one try in a 34-20 first-round win over the Blues, scored seven in a 47-22 win over a Western Force team which was severely depleted by injuries.
And the Queensland Reds upset seven-time champions the Crusaders41-20.
In other matches, the Blues beat the Highlanders19-15, the Cheetahs beat the Sharks 25-20 and the Stormers defeated New South Wales 27-6.
Brought to you by AAP
© 2010 AAP
early days yet though. Until it is happening every 2nd round it is just the media looking for something to write about.
I think the Australian teams are all succumbing to the pressure from league to try and attract crowds. My boss follows both games religously but is always saying he wants to see more running and tries in union and I think there is a feeling that that is what is needed to get people to watch. I would prefer we try to win games but the last time a coach did that he got sacked for being boring.
Growing up through the late 90s early 2000s has made the current state of affairs in Australain rugby quite depressing.
I think the Australian teams are all succumbing to the pressure from league to try and attract crowds. My boss follows both games religously but is always saying he wants to see more running and tries in union and I think there is a feeling that that is what is needed to get people to watch.
I'm sure you're right, but it's silly. If you want to watch League, watch League. That's why it's there. Union is Union, it's a tough grindy sport with a lot of tactical kicking. But I do understand that Union struggles for viewership in Australia due to competition from League and Aussie Rules.
I totally agree with you. I watch union because I want to see a tactical arm wrestle. I would say that rewarding good ball skills through the hands is still important rather than having games where the penalty is all important. A perfect game of rugby to me is a fight for dominance of the field posistion and then pushing for the kill when one side has got it.
I know that next to nobody here cares for Rugby League but I'm going to point out that it's the World Club Challenge this Sunday when Leeds Rhinos take on Melbourne Storm. The way we (Leeds) have been playing we will be lucky to keep them to under 40. It's not fair when one team has the top 3 players in the world playing for them.
About to watch my team get crushed by the Crusaders.
The Reds did school the Crusaders last week, but I don't see it happening twice.
*edit* Oh well, no surprises
35-6 to the Crusaders.
I think I'm giving up sport until my teams stop sucking.
Ok, so it's once again bad new for me, even my second choice team, the Stormers, tanked at the last minute. Here's the results for the weekend.
Bulls 48 - 38 Waratahs
Cheetahs 24 - 31 Highlanders
Western Force 19 - 37 Chiefs
Reds 18 - 27 Blues
Hurricanes 33 - 18 Lions
Stormers 17 - 19 Brumbies
Crusaders 35 - 6 The Sharks
So far the Bulls really are looking the class of the field. They have adapted best to the new, stricter refereeing and are at the top of the log with 3 wins and 3 bonus points in 3 games.
Sharks v Waratahs was one of the worst games I've ever seen.
The Brumbies coughed up more chances at a bonus point than any team has a right to.
But there might be something to the Reds. I honestly cannot remember the last time they won in NZ.
I didn't even watch this weekend, The Sharks scoreline wasn't too depressing and it sounds like the reffing was horrific. We still managed to take the lead with 13 men on the field. Hopefully this is a sign of us turning a corner.
Cheetahs shocked the 'Canes bady, Stormers smashed Highlanders and Reds surprised the chiefs. 3 teams to watch for interesting things, although the Cheetahs tour badly, so I'm not overly hopeful.
All other results were basically as expected..
Cheetahs 28 - 12 Hurricanes
Stormers 33 - 0 Highlanders
Waratahs 25 - 21 The Sharks
Crusaders 33 - 20 Blues
Brumbies 24 - 13 Lions
Chiefs 18 - 23 Reds
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